JCC American Bully to be banned in Britain

I don't have an issue with this

As far as I understand it's a cross breed of aggressive dogs ordinarily wouldn't exist without our interference.

Now yes, if the owner is more responsible and trains the animal and makes sure its muzzled, then they're less of a risk but unfortunately too many of these styles of animals are brought by the moron element of society.

All that will happen though is that the moron element will cross breed another set of aggressive dogs and still end up with a weapon dog in a few years time.

We'll also see a load of moron and moron adjacent protests about banning a dog that to all intents and purpose shouldn't exist coupled with a load who don't actually read the new rules and will bang on about their dog need to be destroyed which isn't the case.

 

Yeah, these need banned. Far too dangerous and uncontrollable. As Burt says, these dogs appeal to the moron element of society, which means that they’re more likely to be poorly trained/encouraged to behave aggressively.

There’s plenty of dog breeds to choose from and there’s only one reason to want a powerful and aggressive dog like this. Nobody should be allowed to own an animal capable of killing someone.

 

So are these dogs basically aggressive towards everyone but their owners? Lots of dog breeds are protective towards their owners but there is a difference between being instinctually protective and aggressive.

 

I mean its called an XL Bully, so the clues were there.

 

I agree.
They should be banned as pets.

In most cases the problem is the owner not the dog. But there are breeds that were specifically created to be more aggressive to serve a specific purpose like fighting.

Many people forget that domestic animals weren't originally created to be house pet companions, they came about as a way to aid humans with problems.

Cats were on farms and ships to deal with the vermin problems, specifically bred to maintain their hunting instincts (which they still have now even as house pets).

Dogs were originally and are still used to herd animals, protect property & to help law enforcement.

Just because we decided to keep them around just as pets for our own comfort doesn't mean they won't still exhibit the behaviours they were originally designed to have.

 

I do really wonder about the American tendency to say "I know, let's breed this dog with no other characteristics than to be awesome at dog fighting, which we are definitely not doing, *cough cough*."

 

Kinda disagree. I don't think we need breed specific legislation. We need to really, truly strongly make people responsible for the behavior of their dogs.

I realize this isn't about pit bulls, it's about..well, whatever we want to call these mixed breed dogs. But in the US, we have had, and continue to have, lots of similar targeting of "pit bulls".

We have three...mutts...in our family. I put it that way for a reason. You MIGHT say we have three "pit bulls", if you looked at them (especially one of them). They have the head shape and basic body type that for most says "pit bull" (blocky head,kinda light-bulb shaped). All three came from a local rescue shelter. However...they are all various mixes. One is allegedly a pit/chihuahua mix. I kid you not. They are all sweet, friendly, happy dogs. Go figure. Our dog (the other two belong to our kids) was locked in an apartment with no food, and just a little water, for days before, thankfully, the sister of the loser who did that (and who knows what else to him) brought him to a shelter. The shelters are full of abandoned "pit bulls".

However...

From what I understand, "pit bull" officially encompasses three breeds, according to the AKC. 99% of the dogs you see around you that you think of as "pit bulls" are in fact mutts. Yeah, they have some boxer/bull dog in there somewhere. Probably. But mostly, it is based on looks - that blocky head, the stocky body. Many "pit bulls" aren't anything of the sort. So we're not even talking about a legit breed. It's entirely subjective. And yet we continue to see anti-"pit bull" legislation and bans. And you know what backs most of these bans? "That dog LOOKS like what I think of as a pit bull, therefore its a pit bull". (BTW. if you are interested, you can find pages with pictures of dogs, asking you to guess which are "pit bulls". Good luck).

Over the course of my life, I have seen waves of "scary dogs". The earliest I recall was the German Shepherd. "It's a police dog!"... "That's the dog the Nazis had!!!!"... Then it was the Doberman... some said (and some STILL say) that their heads are too narrow for their brains, causing pressure that makes them MAD KILLERS. Then it was the Rottweiler (no idea if THE OMEN influenced this). And lets be fair - there IS some truth to this. Not the the nonsense above...but there is a certain kind of macho toxic jerk (almost always male, sorry to say) for whom a "scary dog" is an accessory, so they go get the "scary dog of the month" and abuse it and neglect it and chain it out and isolate it and think it is SO cool that it is "scary", when of course THEY are making it dangerous. See the pattern? The JERK is the problem. The thing is, pure bred Shepherds, Dobermans, and Rottweilers are/were expensive. But a mutt that looks like "a pit bull"....cheap and easy to come by so a lot MORE jerks could get them.

Some dogs ARE, for whatever reasons, more dog-aggressive than others. Some are skittish around people. There are breeds - true breeds, mind you - that have reputations as being more aggressive (usually more dog aggressive - Chows, for example) and I believe they have even developed tests for that, and attempted to rank breeds. I am not painting dogs in general, or "pit bulls", as meek little fur-babies. Owning any dog, and training it, and keeping it "in its space" , and keeping people and dogs and cats and animals safe around it (and sometimes FROM it) is a HUGE responsibility. And clearly a big dog can do more damage than a little one. No argument.

I want to also say this, although it is anecdotal. I do a lot of dog walking - ours and at times our kids'. We take our dogs hiking and camping too. I carry a trekking pole with me. Why? Because over the years our dogs and I have been jumped, run at, and "attacked" by any number of dogs. None were "pit bulls" even based on the loosest definition. Know what they had in common? Arrogant or stupid owners who had their dogs off the leash, many of whom insist "this never happens" (we stopped going down one street after Mr "This Never Happens" came after us three times on three different walks). These weren't even dogs who escaped their yard, who bolted out of a not quite closed door - they were just off the leash dogs whose owners either vastly over-estimated their control or who just didn't give a damn. The fault of the dogs? I suppose. The fault of their "owners"? DEFINITELY.

Apologies for going on at length. I understand the motivations here. I really do. And let me say again - big powerful dogs can DEFINITELY do more damage than little ones. NO QUESTION. But having seen the "pit bull ban" stuff, I really feel what we need is POWERFUL penalties for dog fighting and STRONG focus on any dog owner that lets (or ENCOURAGES) their dog be a danger.

PS - If you are going to own ANY large dog, you better have it well trained if you are going to take it out on a leash. Big dogs are powerful. Even a dog that is no bite-threat can pull a person off their feet with surprising ease. This would seem to be basic "common sense" but again... no shortage of people with big dogs that you can SEE have no control.

 

Same here. I understand the motivation, but unfortunately it sounds like yet another instance of humans being stupid and selfish which then causes harm to animals.

The entirety of my dog experience comes from living with "banned breeds". First were the Chow Chows I grew up with. Yes I was a small child in a house with Chow Chows, and we got along just fine. They're amazing dogs so long as they're bred responsibly, socialized correctly, trained well and their humans aren't idiots. We even bred one and raised 2 puppies. Never any issues at all.

Likewise with my Akita. Yes, she has a mind of her own, is too smart for her own good and must hunt all the things. I've spent quite a bit of time working with her and developing a relationship with her, so we really don't run into issues. One thing in particular I've worked on with her is her prey drive, since she dislocated my shoulder going after a squirrel once. Now she'll kinda "hunt in place" and listens to me when I ask her to move on.

Plus, it's not just making responsible breeding decisions, socializing the puppies and training them in a respectful manner. Diet plays a role as well as gut microbes. There's more and more research about how disruptions in the normal microbes in the gut seems to correlate with increasing aggression.

There is also the fact that animals pick up on subtle shifts in mood and emotion that humans might not be aware of, which is why dogs and horses are helpful in some therapy settings. Likewise, a dog might sense a human's anxiety and react in an aggressive manner. Same thing happens a LOT with horses and their riders. Arabian horses have a reputation for being sensitive, but no one talks about banning them. What humans see as misbehavior to the dog or horse is just communication. It's the human's job to figure out why and fix it.

 

A lot of words to defend allowing people to have dog breeds that are provably more dangerous.

 

Was waiting for someone to make that joke..

 

Plus dogs are at their core still imbued with the mentality of their Wolf ancestors.
If they decide to challenge their pack leader for dominance, somehow I doubt most of us humans have much chance of winning

 

Yep. It's just stats. They don't all attack, but they all CAN attack at any moment. They've killed owners out of nowhere. It's just something that a dog built for aggression and clamping down and not letting go can do.

They should all be sterilized and no more should be allowed, until eventually they are outright banned.

 

When I was a kid, we had a cat that would lie on your face while you slept. 3 people in my family woke up to that dumb cat trying to suffocate them.

I think all cats are evil and should be banned.

Serious.

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As to a specific breed ban...while I understand the need to do something...setting the guidelines by "breed" only allows for the breeders (legit or not) to get right outside the required breed history or dna criteria that will identify a "American Bully XL" vs a regular pit or anything else.

Right now, no doubt, there are people with Bully XL's in the UK rushing to get the dogs crossbred with something else to thin out the bloodline as fast as possible. Maybe they will call it a "British Bully XL" on the street, and it will skirt the law that goes into force, but most of the characteristics will still be there.

Perhaps what is really needed is more regulation on dog ownership in addition to on the dogs. Maybe people need a dog owners license like a drivers license. A database with a persons pet history...perhaps giving warning of someone handling dangerous breeds, or has a penchant for sad/terrible endings for their dogs. Training and recertification over time required.

Perhaps if people knew the government was monitoring what they were doing with their dogs, they wouldn't get a potentially dangerous dog, AND wouldn't treat it in ways to accentuate that potential aggression.

 

Cats cannot be accused of evil by their inferiors.

 

Yup. Also, missing from the conversation thus far is another benefit of banning breeds that are specifically bred for fighting and aggression: disincentivizing the breeding in the first place (though this would require good regulation to ensure people don’t exploit loopholes). Which is good for dogs, not just people. A dog that, by nature, constantly wants to fight is not a happy dog. So let’s ban fighting breeds so that these dogs don’t suffer, as well as the humans and other animals they hurt and sometime kill.

Starting with the Belgian Malinois (bred to be an aggressive police dog) in my community that’s killed three cats, and is still around.

 

I would point out that that covers a significant portion of dog breeds. Rottweiler, Boxer, German Shepherd, great dane, husky, beagle, chihuahua, and Labrador retriever would all make that list as far as breeds go.

 

It could be any breed. It could be any animal, especially if you add tertiary methods like the spread of disease.

Animal care is a big responsibility, and sadly, the spectrum of care those animals receive is broad, as is the perception of the owners on how well they think they care for them. From people who are happy letting their dogs drink from a stagnant toxic pond, to people who would not think to let their poodle drink anything but Evian.

Education is also lacking on pet ownership. Most people treat their pets the way their parents probably did.

Also, the growing expense of pet ownership, and the growing stigma about how much people spend on "fur babies" only increases a wedge between the haves and have-nots in ownership, as well as the pets themselves.

So, as with so much in this world, the disparities in opinion will remain.

 

Chihuahuas can't rip children apart, which is what two pitbulls in Tennessee did, in front of the children's mother. They were beloved family dogs that had no history of violence. This is literally like having a black bear as a pet. Just because they're calm most the time doesn't mean they're safe as a pet.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...lized-after-tennessee-dog-mauling/8219201001/

 

It will make some people think twice, but that will come as little consolation to people who are victims of one of these dogs whose owner is an idiot or simply doesn't care. Irresponsible people often don't think of the consequences.

 

Yeah a lot of times the victims are neighbors who have no say over anything, too.