Mini Series The Acolyte 1.08 (SEASON FINALE!!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Well...they showed she had no memories. They didn't show anything that suggested she had no autonomy earlier.

 

Simple. As mentioned just a couple posts before yours:

And this isn't speculation. It's been a central Star Wars theme for a long time now.

Yup. Power and dominance over life. Including the ability to play God/ control/ dominate the force. This is basic Star Wars evil stuff. Shouldn't have to be explained at this point.

 

So they have a person in custody who is doubtless on all sorts of security videos, involved in many many murders, mind wiped.

The show doesn't say the Jedi are largely corrupt, or that they don't make mistakes? Um... virtually every Jedi we meet for any length of time in this series is inept, corrupt, over emotional, dishonest, and/or arrogant. Sure, the argument can be made - well, that's just a small subset of the Jedi. Just happens to be virtually every Jedi we see... um.....

 

Not a dark sider. The blame went all to Sol. There's no mention to Sith or whatever having a hand in it all.
Also, with Force Echo couldn't they just see what happened minutes later ? After all Venestra was just able to ear the echoes of 16 years ago a couple of scenes later?
Also being such a powerful Force user how could brain wash her be so simple and FAST ?
Sorry but there are way too many holes in this. If they probed the droid memory the truth would come out? And nobody would investigate what she was up to the last 16 years ? C'mon.

 

Memory loss is abused in stories, and it almost never works well.

I hated it when the GoT kid survived but conveniently forgot what happened to him, I hated it when the droids' memory was erased in ROTS, and I sure as hell hate it here.

The problem, here, is that the plot is based on the flawed assumption that Mae being captured was inevitable, whereas of course nothing was preventing her from running away in the exact same way Smilo and Osha did.

 

Yeah, that was the dumbest little plot contrivance in the episode. There was zero reason to leave Mae there to get captured since...Qimir and Osha were able to leave and not get captured.

 

Why is creating life using the force wrong? I think that would depend on your culture, point of view, education, etc. Take the cloning and stem cell research. Are they bad/wrong, or is it how the ability is used that is bad/could?

 

One would think the script was written by a 12 year old. Why do I need to explain how bad it was? It’s right there in front of us. I can’t believe this crap was approved.

 

I am interested to see how it goes from here to the point of TPM where Valorum and senate largely trust the Jedi again...

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Well, they approved BOBF........

 

At this point, Venestra has told a lot of Senators, and the Chancellor?, openly, that a highly respected Jedi, a friend of hers, was involved in a very sketchy incident years ago (I have to re-watch to see if she specifically mentioned any of the witches being killed), that he and the other Jedi covered it up, that he was racked with guilt, that he lost it and murdered the other Jedi involved, then murdered a bunch more Jedi, then mind-wiped his accomplice/apprentice (Mae). This story would start to fall apart so fast, under any kind of scrutiny at all. There is no way to keep the lid on something this sensational. In fact, it paints the Jedi in a far worse light than the truth would! In this story, all the blame falls on the Jedi.

This idea that Mae was "manipulated by a powerful Force user" is a possibility, but it's no more than that. There is nothing to suggest that Mae hadn't been fully and enthusiastically involved from the first, only to be betrayed and mind-wiped. Or maybe not even betrayed and mind-wiped, but voluntarily mind-wiped as a fail safe. I have no idea what her "legal status" would be at this point, but her being unable to remember anything in no way suggests she wasn't a fully enthusiastic murderer when she DID have all her faculties.

 

Do they? I mean just because the Senate doesn’t disband the Jedi Order doesn’t mean the Jedi are completely trusted. I mean only 13 years after TPM the Senate gives Palpatine oversight of the Jedi Council and ultimately cheers when Palpatine declares the Jedi enemies of the Senate and promises to hunt them down and destroy them.

 

This, all of it.

When this show was announced as Sith centric with a female lead I was really looking forward to it especially since I loved Darth Zannah in the Bane novels. I was hoping to see a Sith acolyte in training, her motivations, Sith mindset and methods during this time period, something a little more sinister in nature. This "Sith centric" story was flimsy because it focused more on the Jedi. As far as training method, Qimir is telling her she has to kill with no weapon but Sol is killed because she weaponized the force. She's killing him and all the while her face is as blank and wooden as Kylo Ren. There was not even a second of anger visible to me while Qimir is ripping off lines from Return of the Jedi "Feel your anger, this is the source of your pain, strike him down and your journey will be complete."

I mean when Lucas uses his own stuff to mirror, it's because it serves his story, but they ripped off parts Lucas' work which I cannot stand, seeing as how the women in charge complained so much about him during the build up for this show. Unlike Lucas, the writing/acting in the Acolyte didn't inspire me to care about any of these characters or the story they were trying to tell.

So Vernestra was Qimir's master. At this point I can't blame him for falling to the dark side. She was such an unlikeable character for me. For all the reasons you listed. Did she give him the scars? And when/why?

I was not expecting a show that was so focused on making the Jedi look less disciplined and with less force mastery than how the PT Jedi came across to me. Torbin was so easily mind controlled on a planet that Headland described in the Nerdist interview as being a vergence in the force that it heightened the power of the witches- I mean wouldn't it have heightened the Jedi powers as well? Torbin's whole arc leaves me wondering how in the heck he achieved the rank of Master. Him committing suicide for something he had no control over because apparently Jedi are weak minded enough to succumb to this witch's power was just off putting.

Sol is a Jedi Master but Osha is able to defeat him with such ease? The show doesn't justify her power, she hasn't even started training with Qimir from what I gathered but even though she walked away from the Jedi order she can kill a master. Umm yeah not buying that. Sol couldn't have used the force against her at all? Again, they were on Brendok with its status as a vergence and he just can't defend himself? The actor learned English for this role and deserved better.

Apparently you can change your lightsaber color as you flip flop from the light to the dark. Something Anakin couldn't manage to do on Mustafar....../s And now we are back to lightsaber deaths being fatal and force healing doesn't exist. I am not doing mental gymnastics to justify this back and forth on lightsaber effectiveness for every single type of injury that exists. (sorry that was from my ep 5 notes and I forgot to post there)

See you in hell! Ok Han.

Witches, who had to be on a planet that would elevate their abilities, can create life and split it in two but Plagueis, a powerful Sith master can never do it. In addition, if we go by the idea that the force prevented Plagueis from doing so, why did "the Thread" allow the witches to? So Headland is now alluding to the idea that Anakin was created in response to the twins existence and not because it was in retaliation for Plagueis' attempt? Don't care for that idea.

The only good thing IMO was Plagueis outward appearance, very cool.

 

Well, Palpatine isn't Valorum, and did have 13 years to subtly engineer public trust against the Jedi..

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Anakin didn't touch his kyber crystal in ROTS.

 

I’m reaching somewhat here but I believe it’s implied that Qimir still wants Mae dead for going back on her deal. And she can’t be left alive because she knows too much about who Qimir is and where he lives. Osha tells Qimir she will train with him only if he lets Mae go. Wiping her mind is the compromise Qimir makes to leave her alive and ensure she isn’t a liability if/when found by the Jedi. And maybe there wasn’t room for her in the ship anyway?

 

Maybe OSHA shouldn’t have gone with Qimir in the first place if he was going to kill Mae. But then there is no mention that’s that was his intention either, so nothing to really say that was the case.

 

I think the idea is that they are powerless against Qimir to argue otherwise. But it doesn't play like that when Mae says "go be who you were meant to be" or something.

So it's muddled, whether or not Osha feels "stuck" with Qimir, or liberated. But I guess...maybe that can be the nature of Sith relationships?

 

The chameleon color change ability we seem to see with Darth Plagui’s hand is a useful ability.

Do we know he wasn’t in other episodes nearly invisible against a wall?

 

The show doesn't say that the order is largely corrupt. No. And i just literally said that they made mistakes. Big mistakes. As i said, the show depicts why the Jedi have rules, and why they abide by them, and perhaps maybe even what happens they don't. It shows a group of Jedi, four of them, who made big mistakes, and then tried to cover it up. And their actions, their lies, actually show how us just how the Order itself would respond to these events if they found out And again, they didn't just lie because they're evil, they lied to protect Osha after loosing everything.

As I said, the series shows us what happens when the Jedi can't control themselves. Or their emotions. Or their desires. Things get out of hand quickly. And that's what the Senate, some in the Senate, believe is happening. Which it is. We've known the Jedi to be arrogant, and blinded by their own sense of infallibly by the time of the PT. Some of that is starting now.

I actually think some of the Jedi could have been depicted better in this show. Often times they seem silly and goofy. As if they're Camp Counselors and not Knights. I'd like a bit more mysterious/seriousness to them.

This in no way shape or form tells us about how the entire institution is run, nor does it say that it is largely corruptible. In fact, the very last scene shows us Rwoh going to the Order's Master so speak about these events. So there's some kind of transparency happening, even if Rwoh doesn't want the outside world to know yet. And your response, while much more debatable, is far far different issue than what the other poster argued. That the show says that the Jedi are evil, and that the Sith are actually good.

 

Before they left for Brendok, Osha said she wanted to apprehend/stop her sister from killing Sol. Qimir said something like ‘We’ll see who gets to her first.”
I interpreted that as he was on his way to kill her and that Osha would have to beat him to her to save her. He also split up from Osha when they arrived at the fortress.
The other way to interpret is that after Osha’s vision of Mae killing Sol without a weapon, that he reconsidered taking her on as an Acolyte again. But that’s a reach for me based on his blood thirst in previous episodes.