ST The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors Thread

They arent using Jedi for one simple reason.

The Jedi were all over the PT....and they cant do anything would make disgruntled PT haters or a snarky critic compare Disney SW to that.

 

I found the Jedi to be really obnoxious and unlikable in the PT, but I understand that was intentional. So while a part of me is glad that the recent movies don't focus on them too heavily, another part of me wonders what it would be like if LucasFilm now made movies with likable Jedi characters.

 

Fan service again? Really? That act is wearing thin with me.

The scene I desribed earlier was hardly fan service, but whatever.

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I’d rather take all of the best ideas from
NJO and some of the ideas that have been presented here and instead deploy them on a 3-5 season TV show at Mandalorian quality levels. Separate from the Episode numbers with new characters entirely.

Or, short of that, give me the origin stories of 5 Padawans from different backgrounds set 40 years into the future who are eventually to be trained by Rey’s best future student in direct to Disney + origin story tales with many of them non-human and then give me their eventual team up as a Jedi group as feature films. Do the origin stories on Disney + and the big team up films versus a new enemy as a new trilogy entirely.

Keep the 9 episodes about the main ingredients unique to the saga. Palpatine(s) + whatever Skywalkers who live. Keep the 9 episodes about Palpatine’s Empire and its impact and on the new generations who romanticize the Empire and wish to bring it back.

 

I think the problem is when Disney got Star wars, they were not prepared for Star wars. they just got handed something they didn't understand but knew it was a money maker. so automatically they decided to do what sells and avoid what doesn't. and what sells according to the fans is the OT, not attempting to change Star wars into something they don't want to be. and i don't think thats ever fully gone away. the whole legacy of the OT being this iconic trilogy has given Disney something to try and emulate, and they probably ain't sure about emulating the PT beyond incorporating elements into a more OT template.

They are kinda on autopilot. with things evolving gradually.

 

I think this was the primary motivation for sure. They wanted Jedi to be rare and special, like in the OT.

Personally, this was one of the biggest disappointments to me. A lot of us wanted to see Luke's Jedi Order and how different they'd be to the prequel Jedi and then we got a hard reset to the Jedi being annihilated again.

There was a safe middle ground, where Kylo Ren sent everything into disarray without just repeating the OT status quo again.

 

Luke's Jedi order wouldn't be very big to begin with. He would only be able to train a handful of Jedi in 30 years. Having Kylo become a school shooter and killing them all was stupid from a storytelling prospective. Each student could have had their own unique story and background. Not to mention their own unique strength and weaknesses. Much like the X-Men. Have Luke be the Professor X in the Star Wars universe.

 

They can still tell that tale because that was the case for a time.

I’m just not convinced splitting up the narrative to multiple force user stories in a trilogy format would have been wise. I think it can work if you have origin stories for each first and then do a team up or that it can work in novels or for multiple seasons of TV. But as the 3 episode end to Sidious working
with and against the growing Skywalker family? Not sure that would have been anywhere near as interesting a trilogy as what we’ve got by the time IX ends with the grandkids of Palpatine and Vader.

I’d rather save all of these new Jedi order concepts for the tale after this. Take the best parts and separate the Skywalkers from it.

 

I am with you on all of this. That said, some people say Yoda was on Dagobah biding his time because he had a master plan. I don't think that was part of it.

 

Who said anything about splitting up the narrative? All I said is that it was stupid to kill all of Luke's students. You can still have Rey be a student at Luke's academy as well as being the protagonist.

 

Sure but the more force users there are in total the more it’s going to shift into a kind of X-men or Potter feel. You can make Logan or Harry the mains but the more students you have who are powered beyond them the more the audience is going to want to get to know them. That could have felt weird going from what was mostly a force plot narrative focus on two Jedi primarily in the PT and then mostly only Luke and Vader most prominently in the OT and then get into more of an X-Men kind of feel for the final 3.

I really think it’s better saved for its own unique property that’s bigger than 3 x 120 min movies. Some of the best parts of those kinds of tales is the Acamedy drama from other students and the politics and cliques and different teachers. All of that is better served over more minutes than 3 x films. Many of you seem to be expecting the entire NJO storyline to fit into 3 films. You’d end up with the terrible Dark Tower adaptation if attempted. Dark Tower should have been multiple seasons of modern TV too.

 

We're exactly 1 month away from release. Any news on whether the final cut of TROS is locked in?

 

Yoda believed the salvation of the galaxy was dependent upon a fully trained Jedi Knight confronting Darth Vader and his Emperor. The character that RJ referred to as Luke thought the salvation of the galaxy depended upon the Jedi ending. That is the difference.

The degree to which I find this agreeable is entirely dependent upon the perspective of the individuals within this story group.

OMG Luke and Leia on Coruscant!!! That sounds amazing.

I still think Luke should have gone out like Obi Wan in ANH or Qui-Gon in TPM. I know GL says that, in his ST, Luke would have lived until episode IX. I defer to GL, but... if you aren't going with Lucas' treatment, I think Luke dying at the end of the second act of VII saving Rey or other innocent victims would have been the best way to give Luke a proper send off without taking the spotlight off Rey.

(Please don't tell me Luke couldn't die cuz Han had to die cuz Harrison Ford didn't want to come back for a second ST movie. That assertion holds no weight with me.)

While this could be interesting, I think that Rey's mysterious background could be compelling so long as there is an actual resolution to the mystery that moves the story forward in an intriguing way that also adds to the lore.

THIS!

TLJ is more like expecting a Turkey dinner and receiving a single stick of stale gum... you can chew on it for a while, but is devoid of any nutritional value.

My understanding is LFL approached JJ to direct with the Lucas treatments. He said no, for whatever reason. They (KK or Iger or both; I don't think this is public knowledge) threw out the Lucas treatments and asked JJ again. He then said yes... make of this what you will.

The plan was for a fully trained Jedi Knight to confront/conquer Darth Vader and his Emperor.

Luke goes against Yoda's instruction in order to attempt to save his friends. Darth Vader is using Luke's compassion against him. Luke falls for it because he is not yet fully trained. Luke is drawn to Bespin, away from his objective just like Anakin was drawn to Tatooine in AOTC.

Luke does not go against Yoda in ROTJ. Luke does precisely what Yoda indicated need to happen in TESB before Luke left for Bespin and in ROTJ: Luke completed his training, as symbolized by having constructed a new lightsaber, and then confronted Darth Vader and his Emperor.

The "master plan" was exactly what Yoda himself says it was:

"Stopped they must be. On this all depends. Only a fully trained Jedi Knight with the Force as his ally will conquer Vader and his Emperor."

We assume Yoda remained on Degobah for decades, but we don't know this for a fact. Also, we do see Yoda interacting with other Jedi between ROTS and TESB in Rebels. I suspect we will learn he had contact with other survivors once IX is in the rear-view.

Yoda was reluctant because Luke reminded him too much of Anakin. I suspect the recent speculation that Yoda thought Leia was the more apt candidate may be true, but Leia was a bit of a hot head too.

Yoda's plan was to be alive to facilitate a scenario in which a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor. The birth of the twin provides addtional specificity with regard to who that might be, but more than anything, Yoda trusts the Force.

Also, I suspect - at least before GL's treatments were thrown out - that the true significance of the "Force cave" on Degobah may not have been fully revealed... I suppose we might still see some of that in TROS...

Yoda went into exile partailly as a self imposed punishment, a religeous act in an effort to atone for his failure as Grant Master. Also, by going into hiding he helps to ensure he is available as a guide for other surviving Jedi, be that Ezra or Luke or Leia or whoever.

Bottom line: aside from the exile itself, the context and motivation for the acts are entirely different.

 

There are thousands of Jedi in the PT yet the focus was on Anakin. Disney could have done the same with Rey in the ST with Luke's academy. Disney chose to do a soft reboot of the OT because they were creatively lazy.

 

It was already an enormous missed opportunity that we weren’t given a Potter style tale for Anakin with a heavier focus on “classmates” and more academy drama and you wanted a PT rip off with more of the same? Miss me with that.

I’d rather we do the Jedi Order drama right over a longer period of time. That’s part of what made Ahsoka so compelling and it takes time to do that. I want to do some X-men/Potter style Academy tales in this universe too but those can be done separately over more time with more emphasis given to different Masters and their teachings and more drama from the developing Jedi themselves. I want the extra Jedi to be more than just minor support characters and window dressings. I want to do the best aspects of NJO Justice over a longer period of time without the Skywalker saga’s singular force protagonist focus trappings limiting the potential of that.

 

I was disagreeing with the suggestion that baggage was wrong in and of itself because of the OT.

I'm really not. I don't understand why you're dismissing the possibility that it had occurred to Kylo. I never said that it changes the facts. I said that it creates the possibility that Kylo is honestly mistaken (and therefore not lying, because lying requires intent).

 

I like the Jedi/Sith and lightsabers aspect of Star Wars too. As a young girl I wanted Leia to learn how to use her power and have a lightsaber. Rey turned out to be a huge disappointment for me as the first female Jedi protagonist on screen. Just because there "may be" more than a handful of Jedi in a film doesn't mean the audience wants to know them all. I've had no interest in knowing the backstory of every Jedi from the PT. I could care less who found or identified Kit Fisto and who his first master was.

Gees, no one was asking for a "PT rip off" by wanting to see Luke training students.

 

Compare and contrast:


Trailer

TV Spot

 

I think that’s from different parts in the movie. The bottom frame is probably after the Emperor rejuvenated himself.

 

You know how they could have covered the rise of the new Jedi Order and made it feel fresh from the PT?

Cover a different theme with each movie. Themes that a new Jedi Order would have to grapple with, based on the history of the Jedi in the saga.

Episode VII: Wisdom
Episode VIII: Attachment
Episode IX: Arrogance

This would have matched one of the original ideas from GL to have the ST focused on the philosophy and nature of the Force. You wouldn’t even necessarily have to talk about midichlorians or any of the physical sides of the Force either. And those themes would be explored via conflict with various new enemies or factions. At the end you have a new Jedi Order that has finally fixed the mistakes of the past, and the Skywalkers are integral in rebuilding it. Then you could do expanded stories after IX with some of the new Jedi characters.

 

I like the concepts of getting into each of these more but again I go back to the narrative superiority of TV via Disney + or a new saga of films that first begins with origin stories of the main players via Disney + and then combines them to the big screen.

If you’re doing the Skywalker saga I want to see Palpatine’s impact on the family and his Empire’s rise, fall and impact on the next generation primarily. That the ST is going to be the grandchildren of Vader & Sidious feels all kinds of right to me.

 

"The target is marked and locked in!!!"

Hopefully

 

Has a date for the world premier been released yet?

 

No idea. But I got tickets to see it December 18th in the morning