ST How Could The ST Be Improved By Other SW Content? (Shows/Books/Etc.)

It's not that convoluted. Having a plan usually means being prepared for things you don't plan for. Agility and being flexible to change in your environment is really important is achieving goals.

I might plan a trip to the beach. I might plan on bringing food, drink, umbrella, sunblock and my trusty lightsaber. I might even use GPS or a map to get there. But if there's an accident on the highway that I didn't foresee it means that the highway isn't going to work and I'll have to take some side roads. Or it may mean that the beach isn't an option and so we'll drive to a park instead. Or if I'm the one that gets in the accident, at least we'll have food and drink in the car. And I know that my car has a spare tire and flares in the trunk. That still doesn't negate that I planned out a day and was prepared for most outcomes.

Same with Luke. He had a plan. He probably knew Jabba's style. He sent in Lando first as undercover protection in case things went bad. He sent in the droids to distract jabba and make Luke look foolish. And he hid his saber in R2 because he knew that Jabba wouldn't allow him to just keep it. He sent in Leia to free Han. If Leia didn't get caught, they all walk out. If not, he's ready to show up and do businesses.

It's also important to realize that Luke is also a bit cocky in this ordeal and that's on purpose. He's becoming more mature and experienced, but he's also traversing close to the dark side, becoming a bit arrogant with his new found powers and abilities, and is acting much like his father had in the past. So while his plan goes wrong, he still was ready for **** hitting the fan and being able to recover from it.

 

I didn't see Luke needing to hand over anything at the front desk before he strolled into his palace to talk to Jabba. If Luke had a Saber what was Jabba going do to take it from him? Were the guards going to arrest him? And he would have to hand over the laser sword?

Its was basically Lucas's way to have an extended conflict going on for the opening sequence. In terms of a plan, its not really a plan. You might aswell say he hid it in R2 in case he needed help.

 

It's very clear that Luke does change and develop between TESB and ROTJ, as his injuries heal and he takes a good look at himself, his beliefs, and whose word he can trust. I've always been impressed with how Luke, over the course of three movies and (I believe) four years of story can go from a brave yet bumbling kid, to a courageous yet reckless Rebel, to a thoughtful yet haunted Jedi. Mark Hamill did a great job with the role in the OT.
I guess Rey develops over the course of the ST, but it's not as clearly shown. Given the clashing, disjointed nature of the stories for the movies, I guess that's to be expected. If they'd taken the time to plot out her character development and prepare a unified story before they began shooting TFA, it would've turned out much better. While this wasn't really done with the OT (given that it was a near-miracle ANH was completed & released, let alone be a success), there was still something of a path for the story to follow, with one creator in charge. The ST never had that, sadly.

 

Rey had potential in TFA. The set up is not nearly as deep as Luke's, or even Anakin's, but there could have been something.

In TLJ, the character should face growth, and challenges, and possibly set backs. But she doesn't. She's defiant agsint Luke's inaction towards teaching her and basically right about Ben Solo. And when Ben tells her she's just a nobody, she sniffles a bit and then moments later seems back to being Just Rey. Just fine. Even the end of the movie seems Just Fine, even though Luke, the hero of the OT, Just died.

In TROS, she's finally told the truth. She's really a Palpatine. This doesn't really affect her at all. She sees herself as a Sith Lord. But that goes away instantly. She kills Ben. Brings him back. Then quits and has a quit pep talk with Luke about not quting and how everyone knew she was a Palpatine all along. Then she kills her Grandpa and kisses Ben. Then she takes the name Skywalker. Because...marketing reasons.

Not much of a character arc. She's very much the same person she was at the very beginning of TFA, only now she's okay with her family not coming back, and has a last name of another family also not coming back. Big whoop. Maybe should have just gone down to city hall in EP 7 and got her name changed then and saved herself the trouble.

 

I agree with this. Again, my point isn't comparing Rey's development to Luke's. My point is that, with regards to SW (and other films) characters and narratives often evolve between film's offscreen. I simply don't agree with those that hold to the idea that Luke's character development picks up where the previous movie leaves off. Point is: Luke Skywalker clearly goes through character development off screen and in between films.

@DarkGingerJedi

To me, this is just Star Wars being Star Wars. As pointed out, in the OT Luke seems to get over the deaths of his Aunt, Uncle, and Ben Kenobi real quick too.

 

Once again, the death of his uncle and aunt motivate him to become a Jedi. He knows he lost his father to Vader. And now the Empire has killed his family. He wants to avenge them all.

Learning that Rey is a Palpatine has no real affect on Rey's character or desire to become a Jedi. She carries on, sees a Sith version of herself, which immediately goes away, then kills and revives Ben, then gets scared and wants to quit. Then Luke tells her not to give up and she then kills Gramps. All in like 44 minutes of screen time.

The real problem is, as has also been said, is that Rey gets a 3 movie arc in one movie. They have to cram all of it in to the back half of TROS for her to go anywhere. It's almost like a Pirates of the Caribbean sequel. Stuff just keeps happening at rapid pace. The characters just go whereever the movie is written. Go here. Collect a thing. Go here. Collect another thing. Find out something. Fight a baddie. Go here. Collect a thing. Rest. Final battle.

In the final scenes where Rey finally declares her last name. That's all that's important to her. I don't get the sense, STILL, why she wants to be a Jedi. Other than she ahs powers. Or if she really has any interest in rebuilding the Order to teaching new students. I don't even know why she thinks burying those sabers in the sand on Tatooine is supposed to be meaningful. The Skywalkers have all hated that planet. It's like a big joke.

In the end, belonging to a family was her goal. That's what she wanted in TFA. She ignored her real good family and took another family's last name. That's it. That's all that happened to Rey.

 

Lucas wrote the deaths as a hurdle more than an emotional grip on Luke. The Aunt and Uncle were the only things stopping Luke from leaving Tatooine. Obi Wan was the mentor that dies. Although thats less a motivation and more a trope. Luke at no point look ups at the sky and say continue your teachings Obi Wan! (epic music) (end credits)

 

I oftentimes look up at the sky and say "Continue your teachings Obi Wan!" but I don't get epic music but instead angry stares and tomatoes thrown at me

 

No kidding. Maybe the "there's nothing for me here now" clued you in. As in his family. As in they died. As in he's even sad when saying it. As in it motivates him to move on with Obi-wan. As in it's part of the package that pushes him to accept his hero's journey and want to become a Jedi

Yeah, Luke never looks up at the sky to wonder where his path is headed. Ever. Not even once.

 

Thats him craving to so see whats out there. Him craving more than what he has. That had nothing to do with Obi Wan. Or his aunt and uncle at that. Would he have left if they were still alive? Presumably they wouldnt have approved.

All this could seem like its just slamming on the OT. It is not. These are things that are just there.

 

Sure, but it's not like the film spends much time dwelling on Luke's sadness or grieving over any of them. It ain't that kind of movie. We've had this talk before. Star Wars typically doesn't get into real human psychology surrounding trauma at the expense of the action & the plot hurtling forward.

 

You're the one who said "Luke at no point look ups at the sky to"...

Luke wants to leave Tatooine really badly. He looks to that horizon and dreams of his future. He doesn't want to be a farmer. That doesn't mean he doesn't love his uncle or aunt. Or doesn't feel anything once they're dead.

It doesn't matter that the emotional reflection only last seconds. The story is very clearly building up to show that Luke cares. He cares about his father, and his famlly, and once BOTH of those things are now fully gone, he's ready to move forward. So that he can become a Jedi and avenge of of this. So that it doesn't happen anymore. Why does he think this? Because Obi-wan just told him that the Jedi were protectors of peace and justice. Luke wants to be a Jedi for those reasons.

None of that is given to Rey. At no point do really ever find out why Rey wants to become a Jedi, other than as explanation for her random power. Luke had power too, but he didn't want to be a Jedi because he had power. He wanted to be a Jedi to bring justice to the galaxy. In the end, all Rey cares about is belonging to a family and taking that family's last name. Even though she belonged to a family who were good people and tried to protect her.

 

Yeah thanks for taking only part of what I said to try and prove me wrong rather than the whole point was to say Luke didn't have a moment where he vowed to keep on Obi Wans teachings. We are meant to say Obi Wan was a motivation when he wasn't.

You just picked a random scene that showed a kid who looked at the sky and dreamed of more. Which is not the same thing.

 

I hope we'll learn how people who didn't know that Palpatine was a Force-user reacted to him "somehow" returning.

 

- Fake news.
- Or, he faked his death.
- Come on, he'd be at least 110 by now.
- BYT.
- BYT?
- Bacta, Yoga and Tons of cash.
- Seriously, have you seen the shape he was in 30-40 years ago? It'd take more than some "BYT" to sort that out.
- Well... Maybe he's secretly a Sith Lord and uses the Force to prolong his life.
- LOL
- LOL

 

I'm just imagining a bunch of sensationalist HoloNet clickbait. "Remember the Emperor? You Won't BELIEVE What He Looks Like Now!"

And then you click it, and once you've scrolled past thirty ads for meiloorun life-hacks and lonely Twi'lek singles in your star system, you finally see the pictures and it's like, "Oh. He looks... kinda the same, I guess?"