Andor Andor Season 2 Discussion (Spoliers Allowed)

I agree with a lot of what you said until this section.

What makes you think those two are pretending to be in a relationship just to show off a new home? We saw them drawn to one another eventually by the end of S1 and the way she seeks to protect him from his mother felt as a potential mother in law power dynamic felt very much relationship-based. I also didn’t see anything from the mom to indicate that she saw through it any more than the fact that she knows her son is a push over and that Deedra is domineering.

Their relationship is weird due to how cold each of them is but it also works in part because Deedra is domneering and becuse Syrill allows himself to be controlled by strong willed women. I legitimately feel they’re in a relationship and that this is the closest thing to reciprocal love either has felt.

 

I think there's something there, even genuine. But what I meant was they are pretending what that relationship is FOR the mom. They put on a show. Wore nice outfits. The house is perfectly aligned, right down to the silverware. Everything is set up to look perfect.

And it's not. Or at least its not what they want the mom to see. And I think the mom saw it through it. She messed up the joint while she was eating. She might be the only one not wearing a mask in the entire show Which is why the poor lad broke down and took a nap. He was done performing.

Like I said with the rest of the post, everyone is putting on some kind of act or performance in order to survive, or get what they want.

It's ironic. As Palpatine let down his mask, and revealed his true nature, everyone else in the galaxy had to don a new mask in order to survive. Anakin. Imperials. Citizens. It's all lies and masks. Except for mom. She's just her odd self. No pretending for anyone.

 

Was that attempted rape scene in episode 3 really necessary in Star Wars? That stuff belongs in Game of Thrones. Doesn't really seem to fit in Star Wars no matter how dark the story is. Yes, we know the Empire is evil. We get it. We don't need an attempted rape to remind us of this. It feels like this scene was done for shock value and nothing more. Just completely unnecessary.

 

It’s to show how the abuse of power at the top filters into the abuse of power on the ground. And Jabba was very clearly sexually assaulting Leia in ROTJ, a movie with teddy bear warriors in it. I don’t care that he was a big slug puppet. The guy licks her while she’s chained up and forced to be half-naked. That was far more gratuitous than here, where we only see the imperial touch Bix’s hands and then grab her and attack her. And the focus was rightfully on Bix and her agency, not the violator. And not some other character, as we got with the Sansa scene (which focused on Reek’s experience instead of hers). This was an appropriate depiction of the kind of abuse of power that occurs in unjust systems with massive power imbalances. And it brings the Empire’s evil into the most intimate of personal spaces. They don’t just take away your freedom in the public square. They do so in your home, and even to your body. To paraphrase Maarva, they’re not visiting anymore. They’re staying.

 

If it had been used gratuitously the way some HBO content can sometimes be I would have agreed with those who took issue with it but the moment was earned slowly and handled very well and Andor isn’t for kids so I agree with Gilroy that it’s important when dealing with oppression and fascism and war to not sand down the edges and to not merely use it as a backdrop for military combat between two armed sides exclusively . Civilian lives are dramatically impacted multiple ways during occupations and power can and does corrupt occupiers further. Millions upon millions or of women throughout history have faced sexual assault during war time.

I’m proud of Lucasfilm for approving of that scene because they knew it hadn’t been seen or said aloud in the GFFA before. Now it has.

 

Agree, and this scene was also really empowering for Bix, this time she was able to fight back, defend herself, free herself and take back the power she was stripped of at the time of Dr. Ghorst torture...it was necessary and it was really well executed and not at all gratuitous or for shock value IMO.
As previously said by someone, we had one guy slaughtering a bunch of toddlers before so... introducing the concept of rape in a very well executed scene should not be so controversial... this is what happens especially to women (and children!) in war times since the beginning of human conflicts...this is how it goes IRL...showing a potential victim being able to fight back and do what she needs to do to preserve herself (eg. killing the assailant) is liberating and therapeutic for many I think... but it is only my opinion of course and I can agree to disagree with other takes on it!

 

Also...its in line with the themes of the episodes - everyone is putting on a performance.

This Imperial, with all his power and might behind him, is feigning being submissive. He's tired. Sore. He needs his aching shoulders to be massaged. He needs her to assist him and make him feel better and stronger again. But really, right underneath that lie, that show, he's seeks to dominate her.

And really. Too often in our society we cover that kind of abuse up. And we shouldn't. We shouldn't hide that viciousness with more lies. By calling it something else, Something kinder. More palatable. Call it exactly what is. So that everyone knows what evil it is.

It didn't seem gratuitous to me. Maybe a bit shocking. But sometimes evil is shocking. And that's the point of the story too.

 

I agree fully...
Sometimes life is shocking, and saying the words out loud helps everyone...

 

I loved that Star Wars dared to go there.

Star Wars generally uses violence for fun action scenes or to move the plot forward. It doesn’t usually dwell on the psychological consequences of violence outside of Anakin’s turn.

Leia’s planet is blown up and the next time we see her she’s completely over it and it’s never mentioned again. The violence there shows a demonstration to the Death Star’s ability and also that the Imperials aren’t trustworthy and evil.

Andor seems to get into the heads of the characters more and has them react in a more believable way. The plot isn’t headed simply towards the next big action scene or establishing the mustache twirling villain.

Part of having their experiences be more impactful and stay with the viewer longer is by making the scene more visceral. The violence was not shied away from.

Lucas cut away from the slaughter of the kids. Lucas did not show a ground level perspective of the Death Star Destruction (as Rogue One did).

There were multiple times that this scene could have been cut away from.

As soon as he reached for her, the scene could have cut away until you just hear the sounds of fighting.

Or once she hit him over the head, he could have just collapsed to the ground lifelessly.

But the director kept the scene going. You see him trying to persuade her to make the “easy decision” after veiled threats, when she resists you see him try to overpower her physically. And when she clobbers him over the head, you see the consequence of that, with the Imperial concussed and in shock, fumbling for his blaster to now kill her.

And when the imperial steps outside, he doesn’t just collapse dead, but hits his head one last time on his way down.

It all builds in a very disturbing way that doesn’t make violence cool or just a plot device for character development, but shows the consequences of violence in a way that should make the viewer uncomfortable.


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The Imperial's scream is horrifying in its own way. Bix stood up to him, reversed the power dynamic, and he's reduced to a guttural wail. It's not Star Warsy in the least, but it's effective in a way entirely different than shooting Random Stormtroopers 36-39.

 

Erskin Semaj showing up is a neat pull from Rebels. It's one of those character additions where you don't need to watch Rebels as he's not that important in Andor (right now at least), but for those who remember him from Rebels it's neat.

I half remembered him, I remember the character from Rebels, but I didn't remember his name, so I didn't know it was him until others pointed it out.

 

As much as I like this new TIE Fighter design it does strike me that it seems a bit too advanced. This is 4 years before ANH and this model seems better than Vader's.

 

I gather it was a prototype

 

Hope that the next arc will show a better organized rebel cell, to avoid sharp contrast between idiots and full scale Rebel Alliance in the last arc.

 

I love this show. A few predictions (we're on 47 pages so apologies if similar thoughts have been made already).

I wouldn't be surprised if the rudderless Rebels we see on Yavin 4 become the useful stooges the Empire uses to trigger Ghorman.

Syril uncovers resources being filtered into Project Stardust or accidentally uncovers the Ghorman plot and gets himself in trouble with Deedra. I can see him getting himself killed for being loyal to the Empire.

 

Good point. Who's to say they aren't already. They might not even know it but are being used in different ways and will be sent on the Ghorman assignment soon.

Also, with Deedra's

1: Taking care of Syrill, almost in a motherly way it gives her a bit of heart. We're seeing something deeper here. Especially after we're told about her kinder-care youth.
2: Not being totally onboard with the mission, and wanting out reveals she might have a line in the sand somewhere.

I could theorize a redemption arc for her. Maybe it's not Syril who uncovers something, but she does. And she doesn't like it one bit. And instead of her having to kill Syril, it's the other way round. He couldn't stand up to old mommy, but he might find it in himself to do so with new mommy at some point.

 

Star Wars intergalactic wedding music for the win

 

Yeah. Good point. Then Syril's Mother proudly celebrating his new posting on Scarif...

I can't imagine a full redemption but definitely a small, noble stand. If Ghorman Massacre is arc 3, the fall out is going to be quite fascinating. No one is getting out clean.

 

Forgive me if I can't keep up with which advanced TIE is which, but the loss of Lothal and the Tie factory may impact production.

 

I have a feeling Cassian is going to lose one of his friends in each of the arcs.