Andor Andor Episode 2.12 (SERIES FINALE!!!) Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I meant after this not before

 

My best guess was the message she wanted Cassian to take back. "Jedha, Kyber, Erso."

 

She's aware they're active. But she doesn't think she'll have a role there, particularly given the Yavinites' poor opinion of Luthen.

Based on Wil's description of the message as a "final call," it was an existential emergency message (code red...), and a call to meet at the safehouse. There were clearly no other details beyond that, as she has to spell it out in person.

 

There is also K-2's comment about the message being too short to be decoded, and how it must be something Cassian had memorized. This clearly indicates it was a type of standard-message all members of Luthen's crew understood, but which would be of no use to anyone else.

 

Yup. Good call. I was just about to come back here and say that!

Not to mention that Luthen (her dad) stabs himself, doesn't die, and then she has to go in and kill him. Her life, as she knew it, is ended. And she's breaking down. Why anyone would expect her to act exactly as she's been acting since the beginning of season 1 is beyond me.

 

Right. How hard must that have been to do as well regardless if she knew it'd be what he wanted. Also, like has been mentioned, at this point Yavin is nothing. No one is doing anything. She's a woman of action and intrigue and to be around people who she doesn't know and might think little of has to be demoralizing. Like Cassian said to, I forget who, what have you done? Her and Luthen were in constant danger and gave everything in his case.

 

Yavin was almost literally set up as an alternative to Luthen, and this is mentioned many times during the last two arcs. Every time a rebel commits to Yavin, it feels to Luthen and Kleya as almost a personal betrayal. The Yavin leadership is constantly critical of Luthen's methods. Kleya has every reason to believe she won't be greeted with open arms, and for the most part she is right. Over time it seems that the situation will work itself out, but it isn't hard to imagine Kleya not wanting to be a part of it initially.

 

Also, unlike Vel, she has no personal connection to Yavin, and she'd probably be wary of Jedi and the Force since it flies in the face of the pragmatism she'd known. She might eventually feel comfortable, but even then she's something of an outlier.

 

Yup.

Vel: “We’re not Luthen’s puppets anymore.”

 

I thought this might be the helmet Luke will use but its not, anyone have any idea?

 

I like that it's mirroring the Vader corridor scene at the end of Rogue One - both are in a dark corridor and ordinary soldiers are pretty helpless against the oncoming force (or Force). K2 is trying to help get information to the Rebellion, while Vader is trying to stop information.

 

I gave this a 10 but it's not as good as the tenth and eleventh episodes... which were both 10s for me.

So... this was the lesser 10.

Yes, that's right.

That's where we're at with Andor.

It's not 10/10, it's multiple 10/10s and each 10 may be greater or lesser than the previous 10.

How many times can I say 10?

Well, let's just say I give this whole season a 10/10.

I'll elaborate a bit later, but that's really what I feel. I put it up past Shogun.

 

Is it wedges?

 

Gold Leader?

 

No, this is Gold Leader, Jon Vander's helmet.


Wedge's helmet

 

lol I immediately thought "This is Gooooold Leader - standing by." when I saw your comment.

 

Eps 7-12 are peak SW.

 

I think you could argue we see that she's ultimately shown to be the biggest driving force of Luthen's action, someone who is totally committed to the cause to the absence of almost everything else. I think Luthen is shown as having worked towards something like Yavin but views it as still a work in progress, especially its leadership and honestly Andor/Rogue One do pretty much show that to be true as whilst Mon and Bail can be depended on the others pretty much have to be forced into action by those below them.

What I feel is really effective in those last three episodes is that you have arguably the biggest dramatic climax at the start of them in episode 10 and then following two let us see the after effects of that. The more conventional way of covering a plot like this would be to spin out the tension around Dedra going after Luthen/Kleya who have the DS info up to the main climax in episode 12. Instead you get that confrontation in episode 10 and the reveal of Kleya's background with Luthen then we get to see the after effects on her and Dedra and the ISB in the next couple.

I do think that makes Kleya's character very effective, you get to see someone who has basically bottled up emotion her entire life in favour of the cause working with a man she loves and hates finally opening up

 

The impression I get is that Luthen rejects the concept of centralizing the rebellion and building a military for essentially a conventional war. Luthen's vision seems to be more how he operates in the earlier days: creating a network of partisan cells waging local guerilla wars, but cooperating with shared intel, supply distribution, and lending manpower when necessary. Also, he still favors more utilitarian concepts of rules of engagement, that the Alliance leadership is more squeamish about. The fact that Luthen and Kleya set up an operation based on what they envision the rebellion to look like, only to see most of their best assets choose a different direction, makes them feel very much on the outside of what the Alliance is doing.

 

His "Yavin is not ready" does tend to suggest he believes that it might at some stage be "ready" meaning he has some degree of belief in it.

I think you could argue that to some degree he's working with what he has in terms of these disparate groups, the majority of them were not created by him but he's worked to supply them and feed them intel.

I'd agree there is a side to him(and perhaps to Kleya as well although its not expressed as much) that is distrustful of the political establishment. He works with Mon and does seem to see her as a potential leader but he's basically trying to push her away from the kind of "establishment liberal" position she's working from which he views as too self interested and weak to take on the rising fascism.

Again really I think you could argue he's semi proven right, Mon and Bail are willing to act as is needed but the other leaders seem arrogant, small minded and self interested and its only when those under them(some of whome worked though Luthen previously) act without there say so that things get done.

 

I thought Bail said “Yavin is not ready?” I guess I’ll need to rewatch it!

 

I might be misremembering I spose but I seem to remember him saying something along those lines? either way I do get the impression he doesnt have an entirely negative view of it even if he's not on the best of terms.

Again I think really his distrust seems to be more of the ruling class, he works with Mon pushing her towards being a more committed and ruthless leader but I'd say really his view is probably more that Yavin is latching onto the groundswell of public opinion. Again I think what we actually see does tend to proove that right as when action needs to be taken its not the leaders who take it.

 

I agree with what some others have said here: it was a fantastic finale, and it really made me want to immediately put in Rogue One (even though it was almost midnight) so...mission accomplished there! But as has been mentioned, I enjoyed episodes 10 and 11 more. Those both got a '10' from me, while this one was a '9.' Perhaps that's cos IMO more things simply...happened in those episodes; things that had a massive impact on tying up the overall story of the actual Andor series, and it's where we officially get the transition from the storyline of Andor to the storyline of Rogue One, whereas the finale-satisfying though it was-mostly was just there to provide some tie-up exposition to wrap up the story.

I will say this: I would've preferred that they showed more about what caused the Alliance to part ways with Saw Guererra. That last holo-conversation was a good 'sum up' for the sake of time, but if we had a couple more episodes, I'd have liked to see Saw's subplot expanded (especially over that last year BBY) to show exactly how and why their decision to cut ties with him was made. I know the Rebels animated series touched on that a little as well, but IIRC it was just as much a 'summary' there as well, rather than fleshing out that part of the story. I know that takes attention away from Andor's story, but IMO there were so many other subplots focusing on different characters throughout the series, so IMO it would'nt have felt out of place. Plus it would've been great for the setup of Rogue One.