A combo of poor characterization and bad writing is destroying Jaina's character (Abyss Spoiler)

I agree with your general statement, but disagree with part of your conclusion.

Jaina is definitely not a dynamic character in the same way Anakin and Jacen were. If you look at them, Anakin was an introspective youth who had to overcome his fear of his namesake, then temper his brashness and desire to be a hero by gaining wisdom and understanding; he came out of it a hero, after overcoming several personal obstacles to heroism. His characterization altered and matured over time as he grew into a really active, kickass heroic role. He's definitely dynamic. Jacen was silly, happy-go-lucky, a little ineffective as a hero, then got bogged down in philosophy before gaining wisdom and assuming an overwhelmingly heroic role; then he fell to the dark side. Definitely dynamic.

Jaina, on the other hand, never really had those same obstacles. Look at YJK, and . . . she's heroic. She comes in, fights, solves problems, gets things done. No angst, no real stumbling blocks. In early NJO, when Jacen and Anakin had their stumbling blocks . . . Jaina was mildly put out with her mom in a characterization thread that stayed pretty buried. She ran around doing things, fighting, joined Rogue Squadron, was a good pilot . . . she had no real challenges. Then Anakin died, and she briefly struggled with the dark side. Something finally came out of it, but that lasted for a book and then she went back to being a go-there kill-that heroine, now with extra bitchiness and aggressiveness that's never quite gone away. Even in LOTF, her facing her brother was underplayed; it was two books of being grim Jaina. She never really changed. Jaina has by and large been the same Jaina forever. She's not gone through a major change. She's always just been a mix of Luke without the shining idealism, Han without the cocky panache, and Leia without the razor-sharp tongue and diplomatic counterskills -- in short all the workhorse generic strengths that make the Big Three great, but without any of the great individual strengths that make them shine as characters. Through all she's gone through, she's remained remarkably static, and main characters aren't static. Supporting characters are static; main characters have arcs.

I think that's a huge part of why Jaina has come off as more of a supporting character than main character. She hasn't had an arc, she hasn't evolved. She started in a better position than anyone else, but she's not made any big strides past that, so she's been left in the dust. And it doesn't help that she's never really been given any great zest as a character.

What do I disagree with, then? Well, for all his dynamism, it's a complete surprise that Jacen would fall to the dark side. He was always questing after light, after the nonviolent solution, after wisdom and goodness and Jedi ideals. He was a consummate hero; contrast that to Jaina, an aggressive warrior with temper issues and a grim outlook, and I'd buy her falling before I would Jacen.

 

Great post, Jaina is definitely lacking a major character arc...

The authors have definitely tried though...

They made her the 'Sword of the Jedi' - this was never explained, and frankly, Luke could never have said this and it wouldn't have changed anything in the novels so far imo. They made her go dark for a couple books...which ultimately led to nothing more significant than having Han and Leia dislike Kyp. They had Mara lecture her about her childish ways of dealing with Jag and Zekk - can anybody argue we've seen her mature since then? Then the whole 'killed her brother' scenario, which lasted like you say for two books and we're back to the same old Jaina.

 

I think that's why I've never been that taken with Jaina. She's, yes, solid in everything she does. She's stayed remarkably consistent from author to author. She's decently likeable, very moral, physically, emotionally, and mentally strong. But there's no real internal conflict and no real ambition. I liked that about her in NJO. She didn't get bogged down in the battle of wills between Jacen and Anakin in the early books. She did what was needed to be done. She's highly competent in almost everything she sets her hand to, but I didn't get any sense of ambition from her even in her Rogue Squadron days. Contrast this with, well, everyone else in her family. Her mother was the youngest Senator ever elected. Her father had to be the best in his field. Her uncle set out to form not one, but two, elite groups. Her teenage brothers were desperate to leave their own marks on the galaxy. Jaina had passion, but little drive.

The frustrating thing is that all of this could be written interestingly. It could be nice to delve into her basic personality, and see more of her frustration with her family's legacy and unspoken expectation. There's been hints here and there, but a deeper look into Jaina's character, her goals, and why she doesn't often think that she needs to make galaxy-changing decisions, could be interesting. She has a rather unique ability to straddle the lines, seeing the bigger picture (Leia) while also understanding that these are individuals (Luke), able to stick to her morals and make the hard decisions. But, as written, often all this does is make her character seem flat. There's no personal struggle for her to do what she does, so, instead, interest (IU and OOU) turns to her love life, since that's where her internal conflict lies.

 

Jaina Solo's biggest problem is that the authors play it safe with her. I mean really really really safe. Troy Denning was the only author to take any real risks with her when he (temporarilly) broke her up with Jag Fel. However, despite the fact that she ruined Jag's life, there was never any hint that their breakup was permanent.

Jaina HAS a story arc. She is going to be alone and never ever will know peace because she's the Sword of the Jedi. Del Ray, for some reason keeps pretending that somehow she's going to have a happy ending with Jag Fel. Apparently, they don't want to deal with the implications of real drama by giving her less than a romance but real pathos.

 

I think there might be something for her in FOTJ to realize just how much her choices can affect the galaxy and not just the Jedi Order. Since the beginning of the Order the dominant of the major 2 force sects (Jedi and Sith just to be clear) has been supported by or has supported the controlling government of the Galaxy.

If she ends up going with Jag to start that School that he's been bugging her about since the beginning of Outcast, it'll give the Imperials more recognition with some of the sectors that view Jedi in a good light. Which brings them more power, because hey, who has a better moral compass than a Jedi.

 

That's not an arc, that's a straight line dead ahead. That's part of why she's boring.

"What's her story arc?"

"Uh, she lives her life alone and kills bad guys."

"Is there any emotional growth? Any gains in wisdom? Any evolution, maturation? Does she grow into a more important role? Does she become a leader? Does she do something new and unique that other Jedi don't? Does her life ever take a new direction?"

"No, she pretty much just takes orders from Luke to chop up bad guys, doesn't think too much about it, and that's it. Also, there's a romance that gets blown up, then a romantic triangle, then we give in and go back to the original romance, all in a thin attempt to cover the fact that nothing's really happening in the character herself."

They're not pretending, unless they suddenly break it up; that's what they're doing. If you have a different "how it really goes" story in your head, it's you that's pretending, not canon.

 

Only if you have absolutely no interest whatsoever in a Byronic hero. The character of Zatoichi, the Seven Samurai, and the wandering swordsmen that fills Chambara films are based around a sort of doomed fate mentality. The Age of the Samurai is over for all intents and purposes, with modern Samurai being nothing more than courtiers. All survivors of the traditional warring states samurai cannot and will not be able to change the tide of history that makes them irrelevant.

How does Jaina Solo react to the fact that she's suffering under, essentially, a curse? That she's DOOMED, yes DOOMED to never be able to get close to someone. Does she dare to defy fate and love? Will that person die as a result? There's a huge amount of drama and story potential to be milked out of this that they have NEVER TOUCHED.

I haven't seen any sign so far that Jaina Solo is going to have a happy ending with Jag Fel. If anything, the fact they have orders to take down the Emperor if he turns to the Dark Side implies something bad could happen to him. The simple fact is that she still has this Doom of Damocles hanging over her head.

You can't fight fate in Star Wars.

 

That would only give us a character arc if we saw Jaina learning that nothing she'll do will matter as she's doomed (essentially the Samurai realizing that their age is over) or if she finds a place in life after all. As of now, she's a bit like Batman - doomed that the villains might be more interesting as her character is clearly defined by her purpose.

Wait, that's an idea - LOTF as a 90s Batman movie. The hero does little and the villain gets all the good scenes... George Clooney as Luke, Jim Carrey as Caedus, Alicia Silverstone as Jaina...

Seriously, though, the "Sword of the Jedi" thing only has to mean what the authors make of it. At the end of NJO, Jaina essentially acknowledges that becoming the bitter sword would have been a possible way for her to go, but that she didn't choose it (like Lucien not becoming a Lord of Pain). And that was it - as important as the "Anakin and Tahiri will be really kickpants in tandem" prophecy. LOTF simply dug out the old prophecy again - same as with the twin duel. It's not something NJO deliberately left open, just something the authors revisited. And then LOTF had Jag or somebody set up that the Sword thing would relate to stopping the current Sith Lord, which then turned out to be Caedus. "Never knowing peace" might now retroactively refer to having to deal with having killed her twin brother, or with having to kill again and again. Whatever the creative team chooses.

What's fate? Was it Luke's fate to follow in his father's footsteps, or to help him follow his original fate?

Fate is very much after the fact. And every fictional story has the inherent problem that its outcome is written in the sense that it could only come about in that way because that is how it is written.

That is why Anakin has no chance whatsoever to control his own fate - his life story is already set by the OT movies. His life is influenced by visions and dreams that were written by someone who knows how it will all end. Luke, on the other hand, doesn't have a pre-set ending; he can fight his fate of becoming the next apprentice of Palpatine. Or does he simply fulfill his fate of bringing Vader back to the light? That's an question you can't really answer in that single moment when he's throwing his lightsaber away and standing up to Palpatine.

So, is Jaina destined to be unhappy? Is she destined to be the next Empress? We will only ever know once it has been written. Right now, there is no fate, only current plans by the creative team, and those can always change.


But I like the idea of the Imperial Jedi's oath to bring down a dark emperor based on what happened when Fel I. was stopped by his wife, that would be interesting tragedy. And since the amount of tragedy the Solo family goes through doesn't really matter anymore...

 

Exactly...don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Jag die, and Jaina realizing it was stupid for her as the 'Sword' to think she could have a happy married life...but all it takes is a simple retcon by the authors and all the sudden she's not the 'Sword' anymore, or being the 'Sword' has a different meaning.

 

I think you're being entirely too literal (and a bit too gleeful) about the Sword prophecy to start with. Anakin Skywalker's prophecy would up being something very different than the conventional interpretation. "Alone" doesn't have to mean apart from everyone else. She's alone as in having lost her siblings. She's alone in that she has lost most of her Jedi contemporaries. "Alone" can mean apart from the Jedi over philosophical differences. Or possibly, she's decided to reject parts of the prophecy because she chooses something different without shirking her duty. I think we've been shown that the correct interpretation of the propehcy is not a literal one, and Jaina having a happy marriage or personal life doesn't require a retcon.

I really think Jaina's character suffers because of the continuing emphasis on the Big 3. She can't overshadow them in her arc so the writers have to write her development in a much more subtle way. Then a group of readers misses the subtle development and blows something that really isn't that big a deal into a defining chracteristic. Ie, the people who still think she's a spoiled brat because she was mad at her mother for 2 books out of 20, or the "love triangle", which is a minor subplot for 2 or 3 books. Either the writers have totaly nmissed the boat in their estimation of how well their readers can interpret, or they're writing for a different audience than the one here.

Jaina is a supporting character,vis a is the Big Three, bedause every character is.

 

There doesn't have to be a cheap device. Or maybe there does. We've seen how Jaina reacts to tragedy. She doesn't. She killed her brother and well, you all know the rest. All she needs to instantly be neck in neck with any of the characters right now is some wisdom. Some grounding. Maybe some solitude. Maybe she goes a whole book without being with Jagg? Her situations and dialogue, to me, don't reflect a woman and Jedi of her age and experience.

But, Jania is not really more uninteresting than most of the cast right now. I'm not blown away by character development in FOTJ nor LOTF. Several characters had and have their problems. Some more than others. The thing with Jaina is that she shows little wisdom considering all that she has been through. Then again, there seems to be a general lack of wisdom in the Jedi Temple in FOTJ.

 

Well in a sense she's always been the sword, the bombs away girl. But as mentioned, the sword without a whole lot of wisdom and only a minimal showing of heart. Jaina is given a POV at times that could lend to both, but frequently it isn't played through. One example is her immediate concern over Zekk's disappeance, and expressed again later after killing Caedus - but the impact of her concern on readers would be more credible if it was mentioned that she took part in the searches herself between LOTF and FOTJ. Same with killing her brother - she expresses sadness immediately afterward, but there is no mention that she dwelled on the matter at all after LOTF - either in terms of her action or her feelings. That is not helped by her moving from contemplative and sad to her heart filling with a joy she had not thought imaginable in 1 second the day after killing her brother upon seeing Allana. Then we hear nothing more on it so her emotional disposition seems superficial and trite. There are many more examples of this and other characters are simply not given the same treatment to me, not even Han, who is most similarly written.

 

There's no doubt that if the Jedi had a psychologist evaluate the two and say which was a greater Dark Side risk, the answer would be Jaina. Her character is more Dark Side-inclined; it's also rigid. Jacen was more Light Side-inclined, but his character was fluid. It could and did change.

Jacen's fall was continuous with the changes he'd gone through before. Through NJO he had acquired two characteristics that led naturally to his fall - arrogance and the whole "pain is good, pain is my friend" thing.

 

It was the fluid nature of Jacen's character that made him susceptible to the dark side. Jaina's rigid nature makes her a person who draws lines and maintains awareness when she's about to cross over them. In DJ, she used dark side powers because she was mad and wanted to lash out; she acknowledged the line even as she stepped over it. Jacen, on the other hand, crossed right over to the dark side without realizing there was a line. This was well before taking the title of Sith Lord, before even LotF. This fluid vacillating side of his nature plays out repeatedly - Who am I going to kill for my sacrifice? - throughout FotJ, but this was inherently always who he's been. No shock here on him falling to the dark side.

 

I disagree. The idea of their being no darkside was fed to Jacen by Vergere while she tortured him. Although he ultimately accepted her view, it was hardly Jacen crossing the line without even realizing there was one to cross or he wouldn't have argued the point. I agree he was always more open than Jaina to new ideas, more accepting of change and vacillated as a result of his philosophizing and desire to think things through to a perhaps uncalled for deep degree, but that does not make an individual a prime candidate for Sithhood, imo. Jaina's more stident and strict nature could as easily be suseptible in the right circumstances. If Lumiya had come along instead of Kyp back in the day, we may have had a different outcome for Jaina.

But indecision is not equivalent to dark sider and a decision that crosses the line to the dark side, like killing Nelani, is not indecisive. He didn't go back and forth on that one. I think the only difference with Jaina would be that she would fall quicker and more completely because she would not question her every move before and after falling.

 

I don't think Jacen accepted her view. He knew he was accepting a Sith title and he also knew he was drawing on dark powers. My opinion is that he was already far across the line before he realized he had crossed it. He started the moral hand-wringing too late.

Didn't say he was a prime candidate for Sithhood, but he did have the potential, and I believe more potential to make a better story in writing a character fall to the dark side. With that said, I agree with you on the following -

Most importantly about the right circumstances.

If it had been Jaina falling, Lumiya probably wouldn?t have been as good a choice for the ?devil on her shoulder? for the same reason Kyp was a good ?angel.? No matter, Jaina falling, either during DJ and then especially after, would have been a plot that would have resulted in many faulting the story for being too obvious.

Not my implication either about indecision = dark side. Funny that the killing of Nelani, was, as you say, a decisive act, yet so easy and so very Sithly?

 

You know, I'm looking at all that is happening to Jaina, and I just want to cry. I loved the YJK series intensely, and when I was reading The Last Command, and got to the part where the twins were born, there was so much happiness and hope for the future.

That's all gone now.

I wish that everything from NJO onwards would just disappear.

Or, I hope that one day, somebody does to the EU what JJ Abrams did with the latest Star Trek movie. In that, he created an alternate timeline. It may seem crazy, but considering the tragic mess that the authors have made of the EU, it may be the only hope.

 

I think you're kind of missing the point here. It's not really a discussion over how Jaina/Jacen's characters led them to the light or dark, it's a discussion of how interesting they are for us to read about.

By your own admission, Jaina draws lines and is rigid like a good Jedi should be. Good for her, and it makes sense for her character to be like that - but it's just plain boring.

Nobody is saying anything is wrong with being a rigid non-changing individual, but it becomes a problem when said characters take up roughly 1/3 of the pages in books we read, over and over again the same character

Though Jacen was poorly written, at least he was interesting to read about...his inner struggles with light/dark, his chaging from pacifism to heroic action to taking control...

 

No it's not.

(But LotF wasn't a horrible concept, either)

Edit: Oh, maybe Zekk could stomp him.

 

So I guess you think Obi-Wan Kenobi is a boring character too? And think he took up way too much time onscreen in ROTS because he was a dull, rigid, line-drawing character compared to that exciting, changeable Anakin Skywalker?

Jedi with strong, unchanging moral compasses are the iconic heroes of Star Wars. That's kind of the point...

And that's leaving aside the fact that Jaina has actually changed quite a bit in the last 15+ years (in-universe). Throughout the NJO she was primarily a pilot and warrior who followed orders. Even when she was a squadron leader, her missions were still generally subordinate to strategies determined by her superiors. Prior to DN, she was apparently a dutiful Jedi helping fight pirates and other bad guys. In DN, she changes quite a bit - she becomes a real leader in her own right, essentially serving as the top general for the Killiks. Even more important, she changes into a Jedi who puts her own moral compass ahead of orders from the Council or the Grand Master - she refuses a direct order from Luke Skywalker, among other things. That is not something NJO Jaina would have done. In LOTF, Jaina has a story arc rather similar to Obi-Wan's in ROTS - at first worry about Jacen falling, but leaving it to the "more important" Jedi to deal with, then taking another assignment (Alema) rather than focus on Jacen, then coming to realize that no one else can face and defeat Jacen, and finally finding the strength to have that final showdown. Obviously some people find that story arc boring, but it?s certainly iconic SW. Now, over the first three books of FOTJ, Jaina has been confronting her role as a Jedi in the Order, her role as a Jedi politically, her role as a part of the Solo family, her role as a wife to Jag, and her role as a mother to their children ? ultimately, she?s been confronting where her own deepest loyalties lie, and realizing they may be changing. That?s certainly not something that was ever in doubt for NJO Jaina or DN Jaina. But this isn?t surprising; it?s quite apparent that FOTJ is Jaina?s story the way LOTF was Jacen?s story. Over the first three books, for example, FOTJ Jaina has already had a lot more character development than Ben, much the way LOTF Jacen had a lot more than Jaina in the same span.

A character doesn?t have to have a changing moral compass to have character development.

 

You're reading a bit between the lines there...
Was she worried about him falling? Was she letting the 'more important' Jedi deal with him, and then at the end did she decide she was the only one that should take him down? A lot of that POV wasn't written..

To me that's the problem, there was very little emotional struggle with Jaina with what happened to her brother, and at the end she just up and left to get Mando training, from my view that was a random choice she made out of nowhere.

Maybe I'm wrong, but all I really remember is in DN - Jaina was almost jealous of Jacen because he shows up and starts bossing the other Jedi around, and has superior powers. Then LotF starts and Jaina just gets all pissy because he gets to be Colonel and bosses her around some more... I don't recall her ever thinking 'Wow, my brother really needs help, I feel sorry for him and should help him, but I'll trust in the other Jedi to make him right.'

As far as you comparing her to Obi-Wan...the only connection is that they both fought people they were very close to. Obi-Wan didn't want to confront Anakin, and tried several times during their encounter to redeem him. Jaina never made any attempt to get close to Jacen again after DN.

You make it sound like she's having new roles...and she really isn't. The whole Jedi Order vs Personal Issue is the same storyline she had during LotF - where Mara had to lecture her to be more responsible.

 

I think it has more to do with how she is written. For example, Obi-Wan went off to fight General Grievous and it was epic excitement. Jaina acting as general for the Killiks, got an entire chapter devoted to her where she was climbing up and down a tree, noting and dismissing strategies and speaking to her was'u - however it is spelled - guide and occassionally dodging bullets which killed the guide and she mourned over the loss. Very, very boring and static. When the excitement finally got going, she was flying, but there were a cast of major characters invovled which created that excitement - Han, Leia, Sebatyne, Zekk and Jag were all involved on top of the battle of the landing of the parasites. At that point, it is no longer a tale highlighting only Jaina and her contribution wasn't a major highlight. So it isn't just her rigid stance, it is also that her lone portrayal isn't granted the same kind of treatment as Obi-Wan or some of the other characters of note - to me.

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but I don't feel that is true. One of the iconic heroes of the OT was Vader, whose moral compass changed a couple times. I would agree that an iconic heroes also had unchanging moral compasses, like Obi-Wan and their tale could also be dynamic. But Jaina's arc is not dynamic to me, for the most part (and her moral compass has waivered actually). And I don't mean to say that Jaina has never been granted a dynamic moment, but I am speaking in general terms.

I agree with your last statement and I do think that Jaina has carried out differing roles. But for me, she is written very blandly, without the dynami

 

Exactly. That?s what good writing does - portrays the characterization in deeds not words, and lets the readers interpret the characters for themselves.

Yes. She told Luke in Bloodlines that Jacen was dangerous, that he needed help, and that Luke needed to get Ben away from Jacen right away. Jaina was the FIRST character to realize Jacen was falling. And said so right away.

Again, that?s what good writing is. If you want to read stories where the character POV beats you over the head, try Twilight or Dan Brown or similar pulp-style fiction. In the last decade, SW has hired skilled writers who write to the top of their game for SW - Stover probably being the most revered example. This notion that POV has to be spelled out on the page to be part of the portrayal is just nonsense.

Again, that?s the exact conversation she has with Luke in Bloodlines - warning Luke that Jacen was in trouble and needed Luke's and the Jedi's help. Book Two.

You don?t think Jaina and Jag liberating the Ossus academy from the GAG was epic excitement? The Alema Team mission to Lumiya?s asteroid base wasn?t epic excitement? Those are the comparable LOTF plotlines to ROTS?s Utapau. You?re being awfully selective in the instances you choose to discuss?

Huh? Vader is the iconic VILLAIN of the OT. He?s a hero for three minutes at the end of ROTJ?

 

I was trying to choose one in which she was alone because that was the case with Obi-Wan in the example I gave. My point was that what the writers chose for her to do, as general, was not anywhere near as exciting. That is precisely what I was trying to explain. In the examples you gave Jaina's character is surrounded by other characters of note and the dynamic changes, and I feel Jaina gets a short shrift characterization for the most part in those scenarios. Jaina comes in, busts balls or dialogues through in a similar manner and she's off. Being part of an exciting scene is not the same as generating it and Jaina isn't written in a manner to carry that off to me (generally).

Well Hero, Villain, Hero to be exact. But I meant a ultimate hero, who in the SW saga, did have a flectuating moral compass in terms of the storyline.