Abstinence vs. Birth Control Programs

It's just like teaching math.

penis + vagina = X% chance of pregnancy/STDs

penis + vagina + birth control = Y% chance of pregnancy/STDs

 

Kimball - Teaching children that they should use birth control would be subverting parental and religious authority and would be grossly inappropriate for a public school. Teaching about birth control -- its existence, how it's used, the pros and cons, etc. -- is simply imparting information in a neutral manner and is very appropriate for the school to do. If children are not encouraged to use birth control, merely presented with its existence and the advantages and disadvantages thereof, I don't see how this can be any more offensive than teaching about various religions in Social Studies class. It's pertinent, valuable information, presented without encouragement or the imposition of values. Just because you don't believe in Hinduism, does that mean it's objectionable for the Social Studies teacher to explain what it is and how it got that way to your child?

Edit: Fixed markup.

-Paul

 

darth_paul

"Darth_Asabrush - I can't say I'm a big fan of scaring kids into things. I always felt insulted by Health classes where they showed us photos of cancers and the like that were the result of tobacco use, drinking, and drugs. It's all in presentation, but in my school it was a sort of scare tactic, and I took it as a personal affront that they didn't feel I could weigh the information and reach my own conclusion about substance use. So if you do show such pictures, I think you need to be very clear in presentation so that you're doing it to educate, not to scare."

I actually think a little insult is worth the message. The point is that I know of many kids who have unprotected sex and all they are concerned about is pregnancy. They actually believe all STIs are curable with a couple of tablets or a cream.

If showing graphic images of the consequences of unprotected sex cause a couple of the more intelliegent kids to feel a little insulted, then sobeit.

Its not about scaring kids but giving them the full picture.

 

Why do you guys think that AIDS is such a problem in Africa and the Third World?


Because there is a severe lack of education.

Let's be practical here. You can teach a kid that abstinence is the only 100% safe way. But as a lot of people have mentioned, a horny, hormone-crazy teenager will probably get curious eventually. We need to arm them with proper knowledge of how to avoid crabs.

On another note, everybody's been posting with the assumption that teen's shouldn't be having sex. I'd say a fair share of the more mature, intelligent teens can handle sex. I know by the time I started having sex, my mother kinda knew what was up. But she raised me well enough that I knew not to waste a good sexin' on somebody who doesn't deserve it. She checked up on me, occasionally pestering me about protection, my lady friend, etc...

My first partner is still my one and only partner, part of a committed, loving, (as of yet still unmarried) relationship. 2 years now thereabouts. If nobody had taught me about pregnancy or STDs, I could have ****ed my life up pretty bad before I even got going. Not with STDs mind you, but pregnancy. But fortunately, I had a good education, both from home and school. And I knew well enough to make sure there weren't any diseases in the equation, and I knew how and why I should use a condom.

That's my two cents.

 

Kimball_Kinnison - Would you support the government requiring every child to learn about evolution, and teaching it in a way that would contradict some people's religious beliefs?

I'm not OWM, but I support the teaching of evolution in public schools, as long as the teacher is required to explain that it's only a theory and that some students may not believe that this has occurred, as they believe what their religion teaches.

I walked out of one of my English classes because they decided to show a video (when we hada substitute) that had been approved by the school board but that I found objectionable according to my beliefs. Several other students did so as well.

Good - I'm proud that you are sticking up for your beliefs, something that I strongly believe in. It's different during Hich School, of course, or I would have done the same thing many times. What was the video about though - if you don't mind my asking.

 

We need to arm them with proper knowledge of how to avoid crabs.

Sure. Which would simply be "practice abstinence with people who have them".

Unfortunately, just like the vast majority of STD's, the symptoms are difficult to see and not necessarily immediately detectable by the carrier upon infection.

Hmmm... Well, the good news is that they're at least curable, eh?

 

har har. very funny.

yes abstinence is the best way. but i'm working under the highly likely presumption that at least one teenager somewhere will decide to have sex with another teenager, and that teenager should know what to look out for, and how to protect their genitals.

also, i'd like some discussion about my other point. are teens capable of maturely handling sex, or at least serious fondling? (sorry. i just wanted to say "serious fondling.")

maybe all the mature teens are abstaining because of what they're taught is acceptable in our society... leaving all the yokels to screw like rabbits, babies having babies!

 

also, i'd like some discussion about my other point. are teens capable of maturely handling sex, or at least serious fondling? (sorry. i just wanted to say "serious fondling.")

Overall, I would say yes. I would bet money that teen pregnancy rates would be a lot higher if they would not be. It is just the ones that do use protection, that think things through and choose to have safer sex (are mature and responsible about sex) are usually not the ones who get noticed (are pregnant in high school).

maybe all the mature teens are abstaining because of what they're taught is acceptable in our society... leaving all the yokels to screw like rabbits, babies having babies!

I really want to say something very funny (to me) that I thought of after reading this, but it may be offensive, so I don't think I will.

I think that most of the mature teens do have sex, but like I said above, are responsible and mature enough to use plenty of protection so we never really notice them.

 

Its not about scaring kids but giving them the full picture.

If that's what it's about, then we should also be showing them pictures of the healthy naked human body -- that's in the interests of giving them a full picture, too. Something I don't have a problem with. Also, explaining to them the various disadvantages of birth control/protection and reasons people might prefer not to use them. It needs to be balanced, not one-sided.

Edit: In short, if we're showing them the unhealthy, dangerous side of sexuality, we need to be showing them the healthy, fun side too.

-Paul

 

I gotta disagree there. The school has no duty or obligation to inform students on the joys of sex. I can sympathize with conservatives who don't want this to happen.

The reason I think sex ed should be mandatory in all schools is for the public health, that purpose isn't served by promoting the benefits of sexual activity. Promoting abstinance does serve that purpose, but it must be supplemented with honest facts about the dangers and reliability of birth control.

 

har har. very funny.

Yes, but very true as well.

yes abstinence is the best way. but i'm working under the highly likely presumption that at least one teenager somewhere will decide to have sex with another teenager, and that teenager should know what to look out for, and how to protect their genitals.

That's easy:

1) Double-condom it.
2) Ask them if it hurts when they pee. Tell them to please be honest.
3) Check thoroughly under very bright light for any warts and herpes or syphillis sores that might exist outside of the condom coverage area, including the face and inside of the mouth.
4) Carry a very fine-toothed comb, and offer to use it if you see anything moving.

 

Actually, double-bagging it increases the liklihood of contraceptive failure, unless one of those bags is over her head.

 

Now now, don't confuse the teens OWM!

 

yeah, and telling them that pulling out and jizzing somewhere else on the girl's body doesn't prevent you from getting an STD if his jizz is infected.



anyways. that was one thing no one ever told ME in mid-school/high school. and if i was stupid, i wouldn't think twice about it.

 

Anything with the gentile

Does this mean that if I have sex with a Jew, it's not sex?





Would you support the government requiring every child to learn about evolution, and teaching it in a way that would contradict some people's religious beliefs?

Absolutely. Guess what? Evolution is a fact. If you don't want yours kid learning it, send them to a private school or home school them.

 

yeah, and telling them that pulling out and jizzing somewhere else on the girl's body doesn't prevent you from getting an STD if his jizz is infected.

I really hope you're not trying to say some sex ed class is actually teaching this maneuver as prevention?

 

Nor is pulling out (aka "coitus interuptus") reliable as birth control.

 

Pulling out is 25% effective. If done right. Most teenagers don't know that you pre-ejaculate and so people get pregnant, or not.

 

I would venture a guess that it's actually more reliable as birth control than STD control. By the time you pull out, you've already had enough time to pass on any "contact" diseases.

 

Not necessarily. For the reason I stated above.

 

Ok, let me re-phrase that: it is absolutely 100% unreliable as a contact STD control.

 

And it's nearly absolute that it fails as a birth control.

 

Agreed.

 

OWM - I don't think the school system exists to encourage or discourage, support or condemn, beliefs and behaviors. The problem with the school's teaching only about the advantages of birth control or about the dangers of STDs is that it's very one-sided. It fails the test of imparting information neutrally.

It is possible to discuss the issue with balance. You can say that having sex has these advantages and those disadvantages. Some people abstain for those reasons, others not for these. Protection will help you in this way, but may diminish the experience in this way. That is a neutral presentation of information, which I think is the school's responsibility to its students. I don't think a school should take a stance in favor of democracy, a stance against communism, anything like that. I emphatically don't believe it's a school's place to discourage drug use, only to teach about the pitfalls -- but the advantages, too, and why some people like to do it.

Some issues are factual and straightforward -- grammar, math, history. Some are wholly subjective -- interpretations of a novel, for instance -- and should be wide open to discussion and debate. And some issues, like questions of sex and birth control, have many valid sides. Presenting only one or trying to push students in one direction or another on the issue, particularly if it's ideological or moral, is not only doing students a disservice but also the school massively exceeding its place.

I suppose I could accept a class that dealt only with how to use birth control, but if the advantages are discussed, the disadvantages would too. Likewise, any class mentioning the advantages of abstinence should also tackle the advantages of sex. And I would still view that class as a wasted opportunity. There is no more relevant time in a person's life to be discussing general issues pertaining to human sexuality, and the kind of "sex ed" classes I favor are about far more than the mechanics of the act; they're about the moral, psychological, physical, and societal implications of everything relating to sex. They're about sexuality, rather than just sex. Such a class, done well, could be a tremendous opportunity to get important issues on the table for serious discussion as they perhaps never will be again.

-Paul

 

What kills me are these let's avoid using offensive labels that are trying to make birth control in all of it's form illegal. Plan B, the shot... ect!

As a teenager I became involved in sexual activity with my girlfriend and we were both mature about it. We knew what we were getting into and we knew the consequences. We used protection, and took the necesary procautions! Sex is for individuals to decide whether it is right or not no matter what the age.

The teenage populaion that is irresponsable and is looking for a quick ride should not be picked out and said to be wrong, but those who are responsable should not be placed in the same "catergory" as everyone else. I do however understand that there is the occasional condom that breaks or whatever the case may be, but that is a risk, and a risk that people engaging in sexual activity should be well aware of.

Birth Control is an option that people have. For those who are against it I have a few words for you "Don't use it!"