ST Adam Driver (Kylo Ren) in Episode VII

In my opinion it will be very hard to legitimize Kylo's redemption. His character's arc is a complicated one already. Then again, it would be kind of sad to see him die without any remorse.

 

yeah i agree, on the one hand they've done the redemption thing, on the other i'd be sad if he dies just being evil

 

I've been thinking he would probably be redeemed. Though I've considered he might not. But it kind of seems like they have to do something good with Kylo ultimately, or else it would be a little too tragic for Star Wars. Though maybe they're thinking outside of my box. But if Kylo is never redeemed, then Han's death will always be so tragic, and Leia will lose both her son and husband. Seems a little much to me. It might not be in time to actually join up with the good guys, he might just do the right thing in his dying moments like Vader, but if he's not a good guy or at least a Force ghost standing next to Han before this thing is over with, I'd be surprised. I'm often surprised though.

 

moved to different thread. sorry.

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/theory-kylo-and-rey-have-met-before.50038167/

 

I also have been thinking in a similar vein(the bolded part). It sounded that Han left when Leia sent Kylo to train, not when he betrayed Luke. Also, it seems (based on several sources) that Kylo has left LUke and after some time came back with the Knights of Ren to destroy it all...i.e. there is some time between the events.
Also, Leia (in the novelization especially obvious) tells Han that it was Snoke who manipulated Ben from a very young age to which Han reacts with surprise. Leia seems to have hidden information from Han about what is going on, and I even suspect Han may not have known that Vader is Leia and LUke's father until a very late point, which may have led to Han going away...

Here is excerpt from the novel that shows that Leia has not been entirely honest with Han about what was going on:

 

Have not saved the links, sorry and it will be hard to find which exact interviews from the many I've seen that info was from.... What I can tell you is that it was in two separate (video) interviews I watched shortly before the movie premiere. One is with JJ talking about casting Adam Driver and another (separate and unrelated one) Driver talking about being cast. He did not audition to get the role is what is significant. He was asked to take it. The original suggestion for Adam's casting was made to JJ by Kathy Kennedy. Then JJ personally is said to have come to NY twice to talk to Adam and try to convince him to take the role. The second time (that's from Adam's interview) Adam called back JJ minutes after their meeting was over to tell him that he is taking the role...(This piece of info was from an interview where they asked Adam who did he call first after getting cast, if my memory is correct)...

It was of course never specifically said that JJ wanted Adam because of the resemblance with Harrison Ford - that would have been a huge spoiler...
But the significance is that they really wanted Driver for the part.

The other person who they wanted to be cast was Issac who also met twice with JJ. I remember that after an initial meeting with JJ, Issac was then asked to go to London to read for the part. I don't know if Adam was asked to read...Also, from the new leads for TFA, Adam is the one to be cast first as far as I know...

 

Wow, still a lot of good info, Thanks!

 

I do seem to recall his name being floated around to possibly play the villain early on.

 

I was talking to a friend of mine who said that, during their conversation on SKB, Rey isn't actually physically restrained in the novel. Is that true?

 

Yeah, I think it can go either way but we're all kind of tuned to a redemption storyline because of Darth Vader but it's quite possible there is no redemption for Kylo, instead he is just going darker and darker as the series continues.

 

I am leaning towards the darker and darker due to the fact they they described part of the movie as the evolution of a villain. And the evolution of a villain does not entail being redeemed.

 

I think if Kylo was to be redeemed, it would be one of the worst plot twists of the whole saga. Having killed Han, he's inherently evil. He murdered his father. There's no way he should be redeemed.

 

I really hope they go this way. No moment of sentiment or compassion anymore. After he held back with Rey, he paid for it. Now, he's fully committed to the Dark Side, and it's what he wants to be - not because it's "too late", but because he WANTS to be evil, and the power and freedom to do whatever you want to whoever you want that comes with it. Killing Han, and falling to Rey, should wipe the light out of him completely.

 

Yeah but if they are not going to redeem him they shouldn't have cast an actor with such soul...I mean he really sells the depth of Kylo, the conflict...he is not a cold and steely-eyed young punk but rather someone who runs very deep. A small part of me doesn't want him redeemed but the larger part of me does. I think he can still be a villain in Ep. 8 but beyond that I want him coming back to the light. I think the end of the saga should have a happy ending, not a bittersweet one. For me it would be happy to have Kylo redeemed just cause I like him so darn much lol.

 

his conflict just sells the fact that he is a villain. he keeps choosing the dark side in all his personal conflicts

 

yeah....in the novel, he unshackles her from the interrogation chair....

 

So far, yes...

 

You're not simply seeing the big picture. We already have those sort of characters (Snoke, Sidious). Kylo Ren, is a Skywalker. He has done horrible things and may do more horrible things. But there may be a moment coming where he decides he's done with the darkside. Maybe he'll save Rey, Luke or his mother. Him staying evil doesn't enrich Han and Leia's legacy, but Ben's redemption could.

 

well if they decide to have him start choosing the other side, they better do it early or else he will get too dark and the switch will be a major curveball out of nowhere

I don't like the status surrounding the name skywalker. Just because he is a skywalker doesn't mean he gets an automatic chance at redemption. And him being evil doesn't ruin their legacy imo. It just adds to their story. They lost their son but they (at least Leia didn't) give up on the fight. At some point, enough has to be enough and he can't just come back.

 

He killed Han (in a carefully ambiguous scene), he killed Lor San Tekka (dispatching him quickly without playing with him), he ordered the killing of the villagers (presumably a standard military action for the FO).

However, it's notable that he didn't kill Poe, despite having got the necessary information out of him. He doesn't kill FN-2187, despite sensing his betrayal. He doesn't kill Finn later on, just injures him severely. He doesn't use the Force against Chewie, who's half-killed him. He's in pieces after he kills his father. He doesn't retaliate against Rey when she reads his mind and his deepest fear. He doesn't hurt Rey physically until the meeting in the forest, and even then that was mainly a way of neutralising her while he attended to Finn. He doesn't kill Rey when a small push would have done it.

So there's some kind of grey in the dark, it seems to me. He hasn't become Kylo Ren because he gets off on hurting people.

 

Huh, that's interesting. Granted that WOULD make a bit more sense, given that (at least initially) he seemed to be trying to put her at ease. Calling her his
"guest," taking his mask off, telling her that he had no idea where her friends are, etc. If he was trying (not very well, but still trying) to put her at ease, then taking off the restraints would make more sense in that regard (especially since she already knows that he can freeze her in place at any time and that she's onboard his base). There's a reason why a lot of real-life cops don't handcuff suspects during interrogations, or why Sheev immediately removes Luke's shackles in ROTJ, to try and put them at ease.

I can think of two reason why this might have changed on-film. 1. It's much creepier if she physically move at all (even to back into a corner or something) when he' leering over her, and makes her later turning the tables on him all the more cathartically satisfying. And 2. perhaps it's meant to speak to his confidence issues. He's not sure that he can break his prisoners without them being restrained. It could also be why he jumps to using The Force so quickly in both her and Poe's case.

I kind of hope that JJ and Kasdan give more insight into these scenes between the two on the commentary. I'd be interested to hear their thought process.

 

I think it's telling that Ren was on his Star Destroyer and not on Starkiller Base for Blow Up the Hosnian System Day.

We've had the waxing and waning of light and dark. This leg of the saga is going to plant us firmly in the gray. Some won't like it, but it's exactly the right tone to strike for our time.

 

Brilliant post.

We've seen the pure good. (Obi-Wan, Yoda, etc)
We've seen the pure bad (Sidious and most likely Snoke)

Not sure why characters like Darth Vader and Kylo Ren aren't more interesting to be honest. Kylo Ren admitted he's struggling with eliminating the light that's inside him. His deliberate act of murdering his father is making him "trying to be evil, trying to be dark". I think after his "thank you" line to his father, you could see a huge sign of regret immediately. It didn't work! Of course he was shot pretty quickly by Chewy. But he felt sorrow about his deed. It's echoed in the book from I've heard (I'm about a chapter away of reading that firsthand). He does tell Rey that "Han Solo can't save you now." but that line was for probably more for him than Rey.

Kylo Ren is going to do something wonderful before this trilogy is over. It won't excuse his sins, but the light is there and it will manifest.

 

Yes, I read it like Kylo Ren telling Hux something like:
"Yeah, I'll watch the attack on the Hosnian system if I'm not busy, but I'm not coming down to the base to attend your silly party."

I don't think Kylo is totally on board with the First Order. He follows Snoke for now, but alignment with the FO is probably just necessary or out of convenience at this point.