Ahsoka Ahsoka Episode 1.06 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I think:

Baylan doesn't particularly like the Night Sisters or Thrawn. They are just a means to an end for him so he's going along with it. I think he may turn on them sooner than he thinks and will side with or help Ahsoka in the final moments. I think he's got too much Jedi in him. He wants something new, to end the cycle, and he hates the truth of the Jedi...but i think he's got a pained love for them nonetheless that will win out. (even if his long term ambitions remain the same).

Ahsoka doesn't plan on stopping or perhaps even fighting Thrawn. Her mission becomes just save Sabine (Ezra, and others) and get back home. Maybe learns something about this new galaxy and the real history of the Jedi. Thrawn - and his undead army - will most certainly 'live' for another day.

 

I'd say Baylan's plans is a bit more complex than just hey we have a new planet in a new galaxy to start a new order!. If that was the case they wouldn't still be working with Thrawn.

But then what does it matter if he creates a new order on a planet in another galaxy? He doesn't seem to class himself as a jedi anymore, and it all remains the same in the OG galaxy. What does having another force users in this new galaxy change? How does it affect anything?

 

I thought he was only mentioned as Corran in the Kenobi show, without a mention to his last name?

I could be wrong. Don't get me wrong, I would be very very happy if it is confirmed that we are indeed talking about Corran Horn

Was he in the credits?

 

I believe so, he was in credits.

 

The nightsisters want something to occur. At the end they say that destiny demands Thrawn utilize their dark magic once more. Considering the First Order shadow council’s ongoing plans in Mando S3 involved waiting for Thrawn’s return it is difficult to imagine what the night sisters would want beyond Exogol itself. Traditionally, the nightsisters have lived on planets with tremendous force confluences present. Particularly those strong in the dark side of the force. The mysterious Sith homeworld would naturally interest them. Especially if their visions aren’t allowing them to sense that the Sith remain there. If Thrawn was made aware of a grand fleet waiting for him that Palpatine had mentioned prior to the events of ROTJ then their combined interests would be aligned. Palpatine and Thrawn were closely aligned near the timeline of ROTJ. Even within Rebels itself the two worked together to try and utilize Ezra Bridget’s gifts. This would also be an economical way for Filoni to continue to add breadcrumbs trail elements to what occurs later in Star Wars while also keeping the story uniquely focused on the goals of the antagonists of the present and how those goals help setup what happens later in different ways. Often unintentionally.

 

I love that the Nightsister have the same voice as mother Talzin.

 

I was thinking KoH too. I want to know all about Thrawn's army. When Enoch tells Sabine to "Die well," that's clearly "a thing" with them. So interesting.

"Die well... and be reanimated by the Night Sisters!" Hahaha!

What's this crazy talk, Sarge?! Nobody who's ever gone into a cemetery has ever come out... alive! (last word spoken like the Knights of Ni)

This is interesting. While watching, I was thinking "I'd be ok with the Nightsisters being the 'new' big bad." They're clearly powerful and simultaneously familiar enough to be acceptable (i.e. not "not Star Wars") and still mysterious enough to be fresh (especially with the revelation that they were originally extragalactic).

Somehow, yes.

 

I suspect Ezra is a big reason why so many of Thrawn’s army are likely now dead and zombied.

I don’t think it’s a question of Thrawn never finding him this whole time but rather whether engaging him was even worth the resources required. The same is probably true for Ezra. And so the two have simply chosen to live while staying alert and aware of the threat the other poses.

 

Yeap, that's why I said everyone knows it's him

Hopefully in the future we also get Valin and Jysella. It's too early to get them in Skeleton Crew, they wouldn't exist yet. But maybe in post-TROS stories? New Jedi Order anyone? Pretty please and thanks.

 

The way I see it Filoni purposefully setup Morgan Lizabeth as early as possible in Mando, setup the beginning of the first order shadow council later, and has now tied both directly to Thrawn. This implies not only a grand story plan but also one in which the first order’s goals, Thrawn’s goals and the nightsister’s goals are all aligned.

Until Palpatine shows all of them who is truly boss.

I also love this setup because it helps setup why Palpatine is one of the great villains of all time. He combines aspects of all of the antagonistic forces we will be spending time with the next few seasons and it’s his mix of all of those antagonistic qualities in a single body capable of extremely long-term plotting… that makes him so incredible.

 

I see what you did there!

 

I don't think you meant it, and I'm not accusing you of anything, but man, you gotta know that reads as problematic. So both Isaac and Esfandi are non-white dudes with dark hair, and with a slightly similar look, and that's what makes them comparable in this way? Otherwise, Ezra didn't look or act anything like Poe. Not to mention that his role in the story is completely different. I'd compare Ezra more to...Luke at the end of TFA.

 

I love that we get the more fantasy feeling with Peridea. Both Lord of the rings and Willow. No ships just magic and fantasy elements.

 

I am not confident at all that supplemental content will fix the farce that we saw in TROS with Palpatine. I am sorry, but him coming back from the dead diminishes the importance of so many threads, stories, characters and events. And it was executed very poorly too. Even if he were to somehow have orchestrated Thrawn's return, the First Order, the Middle Order, the Night Order, the Final Order (how many orders are there at this point?) to all work together so that he returns in a decaying corpse only to be defeated because someone used TWO lightsabers instead of one to deflect his lightning, how is that any less ridiculous anyway?

 

The setup to it all is the only thing that’s significantly lacking. Palaptine being overconfident and underestimating the power of positive bonds connected to love/romance/family is perfectly on brand.

The man’s Achilles heel is always and forever that he doesn’t in any way understand the power of those bonds. Even with all of his foresight, power and plotting they undo him again. This time in multiple ways. Having no love for his own creation without the force leads that creation away and to find love and through love create a being powerful enough to undo all he’d plotted. He thought he’d learned from his past ROTJ defeat where two Skywalker family members teamed up by seemingly destroying the Skywalker family itself by way of Ben Solo but he completely underestimated that man’s feelings for his own granddaughter and underestimated her ability to fight for what the Skywalkers previously did.

All of that works for me just fine. As does the idea of Palpatine’s granddaughter being the one to undo his legacy by rebuilding the Jedi Order back up. I love the irony of all of that.

It’s just the setup to it all that didn’t work for me because there wasn’t much of one. However, just as Filoni helped to deliver the potential of the Clone Wars by fleshing it all out more and expanding on villains we’d spent brief periods of time with in the films, he can do the same here with Disney + content.

Uniting the night sisters, Thrawn, the Praetorian Guard and Hux is a great start.

 

This episode really brought some LOTR feeling to the series and for that reason I’m really thinking the Space Orcs (Yuuzhan Vong) are the power that’s stirring on Peridea. If so I hope Dave does more with them than Space Orcs but I’m confident he will. Anyway Baylan wants to find the beginning and I’m thinking he sees the Vong as the way to wipe the slate clean and start over. But similar to Filoni’s plan for the Vong in TCW maybe Baylan ends up getting abducted by them and experimented on. Then they could serve as the threat in The New Jedi Order films. I just really like the idea that all three announced films are connected to each other by this series.

 

Overall, I liked the pace of the episode and how we learned more about the connection between Morgan and Thrawn, Peridea, Sabine & Ahsoka, Baylan & Shin and got a hint of why Ahsoka is so afraid of Thrawn. My problem is that with each episode, the way streaming shows are now being made bothers me more and more. I love how we learned a lot about the story and characters, but it feels like this wasn't a complete episode. This time it has nothing to do with the pacing, since that was good, nor the amount of story, again very good. It's just weird that they're making episodes like this and releasing them weekly. If this is the format they want to tell the story in, then they really should just dump the entire season all at once. Honestly, if I wasn't confined to bed with a bad rib/back injury and I wasn't enjoying seeing what everyone thinks about the episode each week, I would've ducked out and caught up once the season ends.

Again, how the show is shot bugs me. This time it was what seemed like a brown filter over everything. The sky and land, all with the same brown cast to them. Same with Thrawn's stormtroopers, and yes I understand that they've been through a lot and all, and I'd buy it if their costumes and set were made to look dirty and worn...but this brown cast is everywhere. I've seen much worse in terms of darkness, but this was not good. And it's a damn shame too, since I like a lot of the design of the planet and creatures on it. I wish I could see it all better. The plot is also getting to be more predictable, which I think is a result of the number of episodes. With more episodes, the there could've been more to the trip and the whole process of getting Thrawn. This lack of imagination and creativity is what bothers me the most, and I think that is at the core of the things that bother me about this show.

The names also bug me, since they've just pulled another name straight from Earth. Enoch. Like Morgan, Sabine & Ezra. Yes, this has bothered me since Rebels and bothers me now too. Why not Enyuk and Margyn? Or something. The sycophantic fanaticism from Thrawn's stormtroopers was also rather weird and seemed kind of out of place. Also, I thought there would've been more damage to the Chimaera than was shown here.

I really liked Sabine & Ezra meeting. That was the best part of the show for me. Finding him among the rock people was really cool and so Ezra. Second best was learning more about Baylan. Plus putting together a few plot threads. It was the Nightsisters that Morgan heard calling out to her. Since Huyang has all of that history in his databanks, he could very well have some idea of what is on Peridea that is calling to Baylan. I'm not a fan of how the episode ends, since I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into it or not. Either Thrawn is utilizing Nightsister magic as part of his understanding of their culture and art because they fit in his plans or they are manipulating him and using him to their own ends. There's something that I can't quite put my finger on that makes me wonder if they don't have some kind of mind control on him. It's nothing big, he's just a bit more hesitant in how he's talking.

It would've been more artistically done in animation, which is a damn shame since these are good characters and this is an outline for a good story.

 

Really fascinating episode. Lots of lore. I want a howler now. Sabine is making bad decisions and it is so annoying lol.

Baylan continues to be the coolest character in this show. The power he seeks though...what could it be? Grysk? Vong? Abeloth? Tor Valum? A portal to the WBW? The way he was speaking, I started to theorize that he wanted to go back in time and kill the first Jedi so that the future never happens. But, time will tell. (About two weeks really)

Also, I would have loved if the hermit crab people led Sabine to Ezra's grave. That would have been really daring.

 

Could we see Abeloth in Ahsoka, the mother of Mortis gods and thats what Baylan Skoll seeks.

 

I know the Stormtroopers are likely an army of the undead here, but he still visually reminded me of Tigris from Gladiator... a face as a mask. Also, his "die well" statement fits that nicely.

 

I'm tired of this whole idea of "for the people it's made for" idea, since it seems to be a cover for sloppy storytelling. A good story with good characters should be appealing to people, and some stories like the OT & PT appealed to a lot of different people all over the world. The first focus should be on telling a good, complete story with well developed characters. At this point, this series seems more and more like an outline for a good story with good characters. It's starting to loose me, since it's not doing as good of a job at telling the story as Clone Wars or Rebels did.

Quite honestly, this is bothering me too and I've seen Clone Wars and Rebels. I could overlook it at first, since there was enough to connect it to Rebels. Now there isn't, and it's a problem since the foundation isn't sound. Whether it's from not having long enough episodes, or not putting enough plot & character development into each episode or lack of creative talent I don't know. I'm not sure if we'd be seeing the same issues if this series had been animated and not live action, but I think they'd be less likely since Dave is more familiar with animation.

The show takes place at approximately 9 ABY. As far as why Ezra is ok while he's apparently close to Thrawn, that info isn't in this show. Which is weird since it would've have taken much effort or time at all for someone to provide that character info. In short, it's because of who Thrawn is as a person. Some of this was implied, but I'm not sure it was done well since he felt off to me from how he was in Rebels. As far as why send Baylan & Shin after them, I really don't know. The show really doesn't give an idea of why, unless its explained in the next episode. I can't even speculate based on what I know of Thrawn, since he feels inconsistent to everything I've seen him in before. We don't have any idea of how long it'll take to get Thrawn's ship into the hyperspace ring, or even if they need to complete any repairs first.

I'm also not quite sure if Thrawn and Morgan were going to wait for Baylan or not. It kinda seemed like they were fine leaving without him. I don't know why they didn't have some officer or stormtrooper say "sir we'll be ready to get underway in 4 hours" (or whatever timeframe). Supposedly the purgill is bringing Ahsoka straight there, though it is damn peculiar that we were old that they go to Peridea to die. So suddenly all of them left Seatos because they wanted to die? And Ahsoka was basically telling them to go to the planet where they die? They really didn't even need to give this as a reason, since it creates so many logic issues when you really think about it.

 

Another great, well-crafted episode. The little cold open with Huyang telling a story is classic Filoni, totally on-the-nose but works perfectly. Peridea looks primordial and mysterious, it reminds me of the volcanic Icelandic worlds from the openings of Ridley Scott’s Prometheus and Rogue One, a relatively young planet still going through geologic formation. Ray Stevens is magnetic as ever, and kind of spills the beans to Shin in ways you’d expect he had maybe done long ago but apparently he’s been holding back on her.

The Chimera’s entrance is spectacular and Thrawn’s troopers look awesome. However, I do have a complaint and it’s kind of a big one. I sort of knew this was coming too: I’m not onboard with Mikkelsen’s portrayal of Thrawn. I wasn’t onboard with it in Rebels either, so it was expected, but it’s just not how I imagine the character from the old EU. The soft silky voice is not commanding or imposing. Mikkelsen’s posture is not regal and tight, he’s too relaxed, there is no alien coolness. I will keep an open mind though, I want to be won over and there’re still two episodes for that to happen.

The latter parts of the episode are pure fun, Natasha wears the costume well even when just playing off special effect creatures. Those little turtle people are beyond stupid but in a good way, the way Jar Jar and Jawas are just silly fun (notice her wolf horse is licking its chops at the prospect of eating one!).

And then Sabine’s reunion with Ezra is magical. After all these years and all the build up the payoff is real. He looks great. What I loved most all from this episode though is how it hammers home a concept I’ve been harping on for years: of all the Jedi’s powers, the ability to make correct decisions is the most powerful of all. This has been brilliantly illustrated by Baylan Skoll, and is reinforced by Ezra’s confident affirmation in seeing Sabine’s long-anticipated return. Hauntingly, it’s a confidence which mirrors Anakin’s from last episode. . .

I can’t wait to see him meet Baylan

 

I loved Mikkelsen in this. (Loved him in Sherlock and House of Cards). He's different than other Imperial villains. He seems very proper, almost gentlemanly, but he's intimidating as hell. Like he's not telling you what he's really thinking, testing you along the way to see what you'll say in return.