Ahsoka Ahsoka Episode 1.06 - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Ha ha Yeah. Funny. I get it. But i mean, Tony Gilroy is not Lynne Ramsey or Ken Loach either. There is lot of escapism in Andor of course. Leaning less on the space fantasy that is the core of Star Wars storytelling - sure i admit that. Now, we have two amazing Disney + series side by side, and its just great.

 

Agreed!

What gives me hope long-term is that the bar has been clearly set by these works with some of Star Wars best mix of both critical and audience acclaim. A show like Acolyte ahead and also Mangold’s origin of the force story could be truly remarkable if those involved have seen the reaction to Andor and Ahsoka and realize that there might be a truly ideal sweet spot for Star Wars that can somehow balance the best of both.

Lean heavy into character and grounded human realism and internal struggle where it makes sense and also let the true magic and the endless possibilities of the force and the world building of the GFFA soar when it makes sense to.

 

One of the best character designs of the Disney era.

 

no, it looks very silly

I am glad that they are trying new designs though, even if they don't all work for me

 

At its core, Andor is still about hope. It's not cynical and it applauds the heroic sacrifice of rebels at all levels - in the streets, on the battlefield, and clandestinely within government. And while there's some fun to be had with droids and certain moments, it just prefers to show that sacrifice is rarely fun, and that the reality of it is very difficult. Andor is just as "Star Warsy" as the wonderfully fun and imaginative modern myth that is Ahsoka. It's only less Star Warsy to those who wish to put arbitrary stylistic boundaries around the franchise. Star Wars should never be cynical, and should always celebrate hope and a commitment to the greater good. But it should not be limited on a tonal and stylistic level. Gatekeepers tried to do that when OT purists rejected the PT, claiming that it wasn't Star Warsy enough, and gatekeepers are still trying to do that with claims that Andor isn't Star Warsy enough. Star Wars can have a variety of flavors. As long as it keeps its ethical core, I'll support its right to be called Star Wars.

To you it looks silly. To many it does not. The reactions to it have been overwhelmingly positive. I think it's a great, layered and mysterious design that evokes history and culture (which makes sense given Thrawn's involvement with this crew...), and an unsettling coldness (given the dead-eyed human mask). There's something quite eerie and uncanny about it being a very human yet lifeless face. More so than a literally faceless mask, which we get a lot of. Given all that, I'd place it near the top of Star Wars character designs in the Disney era. Along with Chirrut, Baylan and Shin (not to mention live action TV Ahsoka), who are just perfect, IMO.

 

Ezra and Thrawn both look awesome live. I do wonder exactly how Ezra will react when he finds out the gamble Sabine has made.

also I wonder what Thrawn has been doing for so many years. I’m guessing Ezra has made friends with the turtle-beings & living somewhat as a hermit. But has Thrawn just been on Peridea the entire time? Wonder if there are other worlds nearby he has frequented.

 

Dont think so with how bad conditions his ship is in

 

I disagree about a few (or many?) things with you when it comes to Star Wars (predominantly the sequels I presume), but this entire post is golden. Yes, I actually can see how Ahsoka would be exactly that if Gilroy wrote it. And I can also see why I would fall asleep in the middle of every episode.

 

Sabine should explain that Baylan was going to take the map literally over her dead body if she didn't hand it over, or perhaps Ezra will make this observation. That might be a way to sidestep any awkwardness between the two.

 

Ahsoka is an intrinsically Star Wars story, Andor is not, imo. Andor could have been set in any sci-fi setting with few changes and there’d be nothing lost. Gilroy just wasn’t interested in Star Wars the way Filoni is.

Rogue One was supposed to be the Saving Private Ryan of Star Wars, a darker, grittier imagining of a story we’d seen onscreen before through more romantic lenses. It worked pretty well, but Andor took things a step further, Andor veers into Schindler’s List territory, using the imagery of death camps, secret police and oppressive ghettos to illicit reactions which feel exploitative. It was a fantasy designed especially for (western) people with liberal-inclined politics anxious about “real” nazis costumed in postmodern deconstructions, and thirsty for stories about the triumphant defeat of imaginary space ones. It’s an interesting idea, but very different from Lucas Star Wars imo.

Ahsoka on the other hand is timeless in the ways the OT and PT are, because it’s not about any particular political moment, it’s an exercise in New Age myth-making. Star Wars tries to encompass all the western canon. Something I’ve liked most about Ahsoka is how it follows the cyclical decay and rejuvenation of civilization through a mystical lens, it is not a matter of politics, it is destiny, and the will of The Force. The GFFA feels old, and the urgent competition between Empire and Republic is just a blip on the radar, destined to be buried under mountains of sand . . .

 

To each their own, but I disagree.

Andor is a slice of Star Wars. It's framed in that slice of Star Wars that existed before the PT made it all seem more exotic. It's every bit as intrinsically Star Wars as Ahsoka.

 

ICAM. This show isn't about the NR at all. The trailers maybe misled audiences about how big it'd be. I like your description of mythic though. I do agree about Carson. I like how Star Wars Explained he's the window for the casual audience meaning he's all oh Jacen's dad was a Jedi gotcha.

 

I think Enoch looks great.

 

I must say I have enjoyed both the Mikkelsen brothers’ portrayals of genius military officers in fascist regimes this year

 

Live action Ezra looks even more like space Aladdin than animated Ezra. That costume just takes me right out of SW.

 

I agree with the rest of your post, but I passionately disagree with this sentence.

All of Lucas' Star Wars movies include political commentary in agreement with most liberal-inclined politics, regardless of era. And they all celebrate the triumphant defeat of imaginary space nazis. How is Lucas' SW any different from that?

 

His hermit ways vs the Jake Skywalker hermit ways....polar opposites. My boy Ezra keeps the hope!

 

Well the genie's out of the bottle now. No wait! That doesn't make sense! Never mind!

 

Thrawn's entrance was glorious!

 

I love these types of visuals in Star Wars

 

In Rebels it was established that purrgil turn gray because of illness. Seems logical that they are all gray in Ahsoka since they travel for the last time in life.

 

I think there is a hyper-realism to the space nazis of Andor, they’re made to feel like a really existing phenomenon rather than allegory. Gilroy uses bureaucratic minutiae of the ISB (what Arendt called the “banality of evil”) to lead into the death camp horror so it feels like a full-spectrum illustration. The effect is to make the audience believe, “this is how a genocide *actually* happens”.

I think that overall, Gilroy is trying to make it feel more like historical fiction than fantasy fiction, that’s the key difference from Lucas Star Wars imo.

 

Such a brilliant post this, and I absolutely mirror what Bor says here.....Andor and Ahsoka are two totally "tonally" different shows in the same universe which keeps the franchise fresh and new. Both shows tell a VERY distinctive 'Star Wars' story, however they are written, delivered and presented in equally outstanding productions that are very much in tune with the ethos of our beloved galaxy far, far away! I love them both equally.

 

Another poster who nails it. 1000%

 

How is it significantly different than a lot of the robes and such we see on Tatooine, or Jedha? To me it looks very consistent with the Middle Eastern aesthetic of a lot of humble Star Wars costumes, beginning with those in A New Hope.

This. Though I would argue that this strain of historical fiction was there from the beginning, with Lucas' portrayal of Imperial military politics in A New Hope.

It's just a new flavor of the gatekeeping we got from OT purists during the PT era. It's not intrinsically Star Wars, blah blah blah. And it's boring. Imaginative people like Filoni and Gilroy know that Star Wars can be a lot of things. And if done right, totally new approaches can eventually feel just as Star Warsy as the Starwarsiest things in the past. Very few people nowadays complain about Coruscant not being gritty enough to be Star Wars. That's because the PT introduced a new layer of Star Wars. Just as Andor did. And as Filoni is now doing with his new "there be dragons" galaxy.

Not everyone will find the Andor-style to be fun. But at its core, its thematically and visually very much a Star Wars story. It's just that this time, heroic sacrifice is being presented as a very complicated and very difficult slog. And it may feel like a slog for some to get through. But it's still a Star Wars slog. And Syril's mother is more frightening than Thrawn.