Ahsoka Ahsoka Episode 1.08 (SEASON FINALE!!!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I'm not sure if this is totally cannon or not, but on Wookiepedia there's an entry for Mortis Monastery that looks like this:


And this one was online as well


Both of these look somewhat similar to what's in that final Baylan image.

 

That wasn't the argument though. The other poster said the "You may not "need" to watch Rebels or Clone Wars to understand this, but at minimum without watching them theres just absolutely no way you will care about Thrawn or Ezra."

"Absolutely no way". I haven't seen Rebels and I do care. Just as I hadn't seen the PT back in the 70s, but still cared about Obi-wan and his friendship with Anakin just based on what happened in ANH.

And it's a fair comparison because I'm the type of viewer who hasn't seen the previous show that you and the other poster are arguing 'have to be seen' in order for this to be cared about.

 

Now, I know this is probably not very important, but remember how some weirdos kept complaining about this series (and "Disney Star Wars" in general) giving protagonism to women? How all the main characters were women and all that stuff incels won't stop talking about...

So... Morgan sacrificed herself for Thrawn (actually for Dathomir, but you know) and Sabine and Ahsoka (the literal star of the series) took themselves out of the picture to bring a man back to his home. "Ezra is where he needs to be. And so are we." <- far away from everyone and not able to help those you care for?

Idk. I really, really like this series. Probably my favorite live action so far, but after thinking about it a bit, I feel this is a weird creative choice.

 

They are where they need to be as in where Baylan is about to cause a lot of trouble. They're not out of the picture at all. It's not like that other galaxy is a non-place where things that happen don't really happen. On the contrary, what happens there will turn out to be extremely important. That's a given.
What's more, there are major female characters with key roles in the conflict in both galaxies.
So no, this is not a story where women step aside to give men their shining moments

 

I love how one person can view the season as consistent and another inconsistent

 

Wait, people have different opinions about Star Wars? You must have misunderstood, that can't be

 

But my argument is not that no viewer will care if they had not seen TCW or Rebels, my argument was with your ANH comparison. Which I think is a flawed one.

Because, as I said, ANH was made when NO other SW material existed, while Ashoka was made with tons of other stuff existing.
Again imagine an Asoka series being made with just the nine films existing. Would it be different?
I think so.

ANH had unseen backstory yes but the main relationships were developed onscreen. Luke/Han, Luke/Leia and so on. Luke and Obi-Wan knew each other but we also got them spending some time together. Show, don't tell.

Other ex, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, they get most of a movie together before Qui-Gon gets killed. Yes we are told that they know each other because one is the apprentice and the other is the master. But suppose that TPM started the same way and we got that they were master/apprentice but then Qui-Gon was killed early on in the fight onboard the TF ship. Would it carry the same weight as in the finished film?
Most likely not as we had not seen their relationship.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Fair enough!

 

I would've liked more in that scene, but I like this perspective! I think Winstead got the emotion across really well anyway.

I had thought that Thrawn's departure might be more of a formality and so happen fairly early in the episode. Then the story could shift to Baylan and Shin earlier, and we'd basically see more of their next steps. To be clear, though, I don't begrudge the part they do have.

 

You got two dark Jedi there causing mischief. Something majorly Force related to investigate. Some other faction that the Nightsisters were awfully eager to get away from. And a whole galaxy to explore beyond that. Ahsoka and Sabine are not "out of the picture." I'm far more interested in exploring that then I am in another Rebels vs. Imp. conflict with Thrawn.

 

I certainly enjoyed the finale in spite of several bits of goofiness which others have mentioned. There is some in-universe logic and some adventure that resembles TROS' antics. For example, mystery boxes (literally!) no longer hold an excitement for me. Big Force leaps are cheesy. Soldiers with long-range weapons should use them that way, stupid stormtroopers.

I'm a bit confused why some Nightroopers were shambling along while Marrok could move like an end-of-level boss. Why didn't he shamble? I don't need extra "lore" or explanation, I need consistency so I don't start questioning what I'm watching and break my suspension of disbelief.

I was surprised how the Nightsisters' powers fit in rather well. I think the story was fine and there was much between the characters even if the full dramatic potential wasn't rearealise. I've resisted saying the series feels like a cartoon - because earlier episodes did not feel that way. They were much better! But this one did feel quite similar to a TCW/Rebels episode.

I posted earlier about the Volume's backgrounds flashing - must've been my eyes because I didn't see it on second viewing. Oops.

 

Maybe you don't.

Did you watch Rebel's prior to watching this? Because if you did the you aren't viewing the show through the same lense as someone who didn't.

Personally, I hated Rebel's, quit before the end of Season 1. I had to go watch clips of Thrawn's parts, and get info from folks on this forum, to figure out how and why Thrawn was where he was. Ahsoka itself in no way explains how he got there, what happened to his Star Destroyer. He and Ezra are just there without having watched the end of Rebels.

That said I kinda thought the relationships, the ability to care about Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra was alright, particularly through the first half of the season. Last couple episodes, missed opportunities for scenes of character and relationship growth, are on the writer - not the characters and not the actors.

I mean I never personally got attached to them the way I did Din & Grogu in one season of The Mandalorian, but I still think Ahsoka presented its characters in a way that allowed the audience to connect with them, get the basic information needed to tell us where they came from and where they were going.

Yes, Sabine makes the unselfish choice unltimatly in the end. But there was a lot missing in how she got to that point that was waved away with "it's complicated"

 

This is basically what I was trying to say. Forget about Ezra and Thrawn, we can agree to disagree on them, if you cared about them without watching those shows, kudos, I'm glad that worked for you.

Strictly speaking about the most important relationship in the show, Ahsoka & Sabine. That relationship is not well developed or explained in Ahsoka, and even if you HAVE seen all of the shows like I have, it feels like you missed a giant beat somewhere inbetween. I do not think it was a good decision to center the show around Sabine being Ahsoka's apprentice, a notion that requires multiple leaps of audience logic even with the benefit of having seen all of TCW and Rebels. That's something we needed to see developed on-screen in some kind of capacity.

I agree with the above poster, that it is impossible that Ahsoka would "stand on its own" if it was released today without any of those other shows existing. A New Hope easily stood without any other material to draw from.

 

I think plot twist or surprise is a better wording than unnatural. But yes, in a narrative sense I guess they could be the same thing.

Regardless I in no way see it as a homage to Dark Force Rising. More Filoni expanding upon the Nightsisters ability to raise dead armies in TCW.

 

That isn't what you originally said however. It wasn't about a story completely standing on its own. You said - rather factually - that no one could care for Thrawn and Ezra without also seeing the shows that came before Ahsoka.

Now you're shifting the goal posts. Fine.

Regarding Ahsoka and Sabine. It still works for someone who hasn't seen a single moment of A+S from Rebels. I still completely understand (and even care for) their broken relationship and how it begins to repair itself. Seeing Rebels is not mandatory in order to understand their current story.

You can certainly argue for it 'not working well', or for it's quality in writing and storytelling, if it doesn't work for YOU, personally, but to attempt to make factual statements or arguments that it cannot work for other viewers or fans - those who haven't seen Rebels or other content - is simply wrong.

Speak for yourself all you want.

 

There isn't a single moment of A+S in rebels, outside of the very last scene which was re-created in Ahsoka. They have no relationship on the show. Which is my overall point. Watch rebels, don't watch it, the larger point is that too much backstory is being left off-screen. All of the Ahsoka/Sabine backstory should be frontloaded in THIS show, not backloaded. it's the JJ mystery box all over again. The motivations of Ahsoka and Sabine are muddled for most of the show, intentionally obscured from the audience and only revealed through OTHER characters dialogue, re: the conversation between Ezra and Huyang in the finale.

All of this is just my opinion obviously, personally I just want to see stronger storytelling than this. Star Wars can and should be better this. More and more it settles for less and less.

 

I actually think the series could have simplified everything with Ahsoka and Sabine's relationship beginning at the start of the season, instead of implying an entire arc of initial training and falling out that preceded it. Seeing that dynamic come to fruition in the first place would give us a clearer idea of their respective motivations rather than leaving us guessing at the backstory.

 

This is clearly just me, but I can't understand all the fuss of things not shown on screen. I did not need to know about Order 66, Anakin or the history of the Jedi Order to appreciate ANH.

 

In this series, I still don't understand why Ahsoka chose Sabine to be her apprentice, nor do I understand why Sabine wanted to become a Jedi.

I don't have that issue with Obi-Wan and Luke in ANH.

 

But we were told about the Jedi Order, The Clone Wars, Luke's father being a Jedi who was murdered by Darth Vader, which in turn set up Luke's motivation to train under Obi Wan, to bring his father's murderer, and later Obi Wan's killer, to justice.

What people are getting at with the Ahsoka/Sabine dynamic is we don't get that level of backstory here. Ahsoka started to train Sabine at some point, then stopped. We don't get an intricate reason as to why Ahsoka would train Sabine and stop, or as to why Sabine would want to be a Jedi.

A bit more backstory would have been a good thing for the two main characters of the show.

 

I feel the same way and see the same issues. A lot of this could've been solved if they were written like actual people with emotions who connect with each other, instead of just talking at each other. A great example of this is like you said that conversation between Ezra & Huyang. Huyang just says what happened which violates one of the rules of telling a good story...show don't tell. Connecting story, connecting world building, connecting characters....it's just not there. If anything having watched Rebels & Clone Wars HURTS enjoyment of this series, since both do story, character and world building much better than this series does.

I used to think that maybe just watching all 8 episodes at once would help, but I think if anything that might make how robotically the characters are written even more obvious. It bothers me that I just don't care about this story and that I can't easily remember moments from the show. All because there is no emotional connection, and it seems the show was deliberately written to omit this.

Star Wars really should be the thing breaking boundaries and pushing limits. It should be where the best of the best story telling is happening. The most creative and innovative ways to make tv shows and movies. This desire to push boundaries and innovate is the core of what is missing. I normally want to see something I never have with a tv show or movie. I want to be blown away and wowed by how amazing a new Star Wars show or movie is, and it seems like no one who's in control is capable of this at all. Both Rebels and Clone Wars did this, which is part of why I like them. The other part is the relationships in both shows, which have made me cry at different points. I can't ever see crying over any of the new stuff, other than out of boredom. I can't count the number of times I've seen the OT, and I feel the same emotions each time. The only reason why adding in Clone Wars changes how I feel about the PT is that story really needed a few more movies to fully flesh out the scope and scale of the clone wars. This is the other core of Star Wars, the Hero's Journey which connects incredibly deeply to fundamentals of how human minds work. Humanity+innovation are what makes Star Wars Star Wars.

 

Ah yes, the golden rule that says thou must not tell - only show. The rule that was never ever broken by the holy scripture known as A New Hope.

...except for all the times it was.

 

At the end of the day it's like @Jedi_Jade-Skywalker says, this new stuff doesn't make me feel anything. I like TCW and Rebels because they made me feel. When Ahsoka leaves Anakin, it hurts. When Kanan dies, it hurts. When Grogu and Mando were seperated, it hurt!

I rewatched the throne room scene from ROTJ the other day, it still slaps just as hard as it ever did. The reason those movies are so good is because the characters feel like real people, they relate to each other, and their relationships feel real and important. I believe that Anakin and Ahsoka care about each other. I do not believe that Sabine and Ahsoka do. It's as simple as that. The only thing in this season that came close to eliciting emotion was the Sabine and Ezra reunion....and yes that is entirely based off of work that was done in Rebels, nothing really to the credit of storytelling in the Disney+ show Ahsoka.

A New Hope DOES show. Han coming back to save the day. Luke trusting his feelings. Luke and Han's growing respect for each other. The reason that "I love you" "I know" works so well is because we, the audience, ALREADY KNOW THIS. We have been being shown it throughout the film, but it's the CHARACTERS fully admitting and that's why it's satisfying. The same moment wouldn't work in Ahsoka because we haven't been shown enough scenes building on the genuine relationships between the characters.

 

I mean, after what we saw with Gideon and his clones I have to assume spartii cloning is very much on the table. I don’t think the timing allowed for the traditional Kamino method to have them at full maturity.