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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

A/V AHSOKA Lit Thread - All Spoilers Under TAGs!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Zorkel567, Dec 10, 2020.

  1. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    I keep seeing people claiming the fight choreography was bad in this show. I guess people are expecting Jedi fighting styles to always be the wushu influenced stuff seen in the prequels, but I have to say I am glad they aren't.

    Even if they were, way better can be done than anything Nick Galliard came up with. I'd rather seen something more Yuen Woo Ping that Nick Galliard, if we were to go back to a wire-fu influence. And maybe The Acolyte will do that, given what I've glimpsed of Carrie Anne Moss in that sizzle reel from Celebration.

    All of Ahsoka's saber style in this series, except those Clone Wars flashbacks, were deliberately channeling samurai films and kendo. It's being used to convey a kind of consummate mastery versus the flashier PT sword styles. Dave Filoni had already given us this with the final fight between Maul and Obi-Wan in Rebels. It bridges PT and OT while emphasizing that Obi-Wan has refined his swordsmanship in favor of accuracy and economy of movement. Ahsoka is on that same path, and her fighting style demonstrates it.

    It's fitting, then, that students of people like that will be drilled in basics more directly. Luke has never been a jumpy spinny fighter using lots of flourishes. His style is more kendo, like his master. Vader too was more economical with movement vs Anakin in the PT.

    This has to be narratively explained, since the choreography styles of PT and OT were so drastically different. And Dave Filoni has been doing this through visual storytelling.

    That people necessarily think more showmanship = good and more deliberate, direct = bad is astounding to me.
     
  2. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    This is a total BS criticism. And just SW fans being rediculous.

    The show honestly had some of the best saber fights in SW.

    I think maybe too much, though. If overused, the snap hiss becomes less exciting. And I think for that reason, not as much drama or storytelling in each fight.
     
    RokurGepta and Jedi Ben like this.
  3. Force Nexus

    Force Nexus Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2022
    Some people just expect Ahsoka to be fast and agile, as she was always a very physical, dynamic action character. It was clear that Rosario simply could not keep up with Hayden, and he probably had to hold back, and the difference between the two was enormous. Now, it's only fair to point out, that Hayden has all that ingrained into his muscle memory from the months and months of training for the PT, and they had probably trained far and far less on the tv schedule. But the criticism is not necessarily unfair. People may very well understand the point of it, i.e. Samurai influenced fights, but that does not necessarily mean everyone has to like it. Some people prefer the prequel choreography, and that choreography was achievable by actors through training, effort and dedication. Ahsoka in TCW S7 was mo-capped by an actual stunt-woman, so when she was fighting Ray Park, who mo-capped Maul, it was effective and believable.

    With that being said, Ahsoka vs Morgan Elsbeth duel was pretty good. IMO, the best duel in the series, even though it also had some blunders.
     
  4. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Also, people’s criticism of the lightsaber fights isnt limited to pure choreography. The composition and direction is also open to criticism
     
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  5. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    "Bad" and "I didn't like it" are very different things.

    Literally the only saber scenes in this that felt dodgy to me was the Night Trooper fight. That was mostly blaster deflection.

    I really don't think the Anakin/Ahsoka spar looked like Rosario wasnt keeping up with Hayden. I wouldn't credit work Hayden did almost 20 years ago with what he did here. He literally just got off doing Kenobi. I'm sure he was hella rusty prior to that. He's certainly not regularly running through sequences in his free time.

    Rosario clearly trained her Ahsoka style pretty hard. I genuinely don't think people are being fair in their criticism, especially coming from a place of ignorance that most do.

    Once again, I'm going to enjoy Matt Easton's video on this, because chances are he's going to enjoy it more than he did the PT fights people seem to drool so much over.
     
  6. SWpants

    SWpants Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Did the fights look a bit off?
    Yes.
    BUT that is what happens when you live-action something animated--quick bursts of action get lost in the translation. And that is not only understandable but perfectly okay. I actually felt more immersed than when watching Rebels BECAUSE a lot of the moves were less fluid and just more realistic.
     
  7. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2001
    A lot of those complaints I feel also missed the point. The directors were going for Kurosawa esq fights and those are not hyper kinetic fights. They are a lot more pauses and impact breaks. I was thrilled for every fight.
    The night trooper deflection was wonky. What's your with that Rick?
     
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  8. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2001
    I am once again begging that star wars fans stop watching star wara and go watch the things that inspired star wars
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2023
  9. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Agreed.

    I'd be interested in a Star Wars with Yuen Woo Ping style wire-fu. I'd be interested in a Star Wars with Shaw Brothers/Lau Kar Leung style fighting. I also appreciate that they are drawing on jidai geiki samurai fights in this show. It's especially important because Ahsoka wields 2 blades much like Miyamoto Musashi, who was portrayed by the great Toshiro Mifune in the Samurai Trilogy. Fans really need to watch that and Yojimbo to see what Filoni is deliberately drawing upon for Ahsoka's specific style and the staging of these fights.

    Heck, I saw someone refer to Baylan's fighting style as "Qui-Gon power stance," when it's actually rooted in Historic European Martial Arts not the choreography for Qui-Gon Jinn.

    Some fans need to get out more
     
  10. Soontir-Fel

    Soontir-Fel Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2001
    What annoys me is that is that is there really more of an audiance for outrage then there would be saying "hey look at these movies that inspired the show?" I never see those videos.

    Like there are legit gripes with ahsoka. Pacing, dialogue, overuse of the volume, but swordplay, oh man. Ever sword fight is a conversation. The sworsfighting is dialogue. And it sings
     
  11. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    I've seen those, and I did HEMA for years, and I still have issues with many of the saber duels in this series. In my eyes, this is the opposite of the PT which had amazing execution of ridiculous choreography; Ahsoka had lackluster execution of decent choreography.
     
  12. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
  13. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    While I didn't have an issue with the choreography, I was annoyed that we could predict the outcome of essentially every lightsaber fight. The only "surprise" was maybe Baylan beating Ahsoka the first time. Morgan's was painful to watch because it was obvious what was going to happen. It was one of several times in the series I found myself begging the show's creators to do anything but the most obvious next step they had set themselves up for.
     
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  14. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I was actually surprised that Baylan beat Ahsoka every single time.

    EDIT:
    some cool fanart

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2023
  15. Sly442

    Sly442 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2018
    I thought that was Alden Ehrenreich standing behind them lmao
    Why are people in fandoms always surprised that the disenfranchised are usually more active and noisy compared to those satisfied with the status quo (who are more passive) when that's the case IRL?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2023
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  16. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    lolwut

    I'm not sure which is more lol-worthy- that critical fanboys are somehow "disenfranchised" or that positive people are inherently passive.
     
  17. Sly442

    Sly442 Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2018
    With how much people are trying to use media to fill the gap of meaning in this godless world, yes, that's how they act. [face_laugh]
     
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  18. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    The so-called "disenfranchised" in your analogy seem more like religious zealots, to me, always whining about "muh canon" and getting up in arms about a character as if they are inviolable, thus any story or change they dont like is as if a sacred personality was blasphemed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2023
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  19. Foreign32567

    Foreign32567 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2021
    Ahsoka was fighting weaker opponents for too long.
     
  20. Dream-Thinker

    Dream-Thinker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 20, 2020
    Talk about first world problems.
     
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  21. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    I've certainly observed the phenomenon. Though I tend to see it has the really hardcore obnoxious fanboys tending to treat this stuff with a religious fervor and zealotry rather than people who, at the end of the day, consider these things stories that they either enjoyed or didn't enjoy.

    The vitriol that still exists around The Last Jedi, and especially the rhetoric that talks of Luke Skywalker needing "redemption," comes across less as "I didn't like this character arc" and more like "how dare they insult our sacred personalities!!"
     
  22. Ginkasa

    Ginkasa Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2002
    [​IMG]
     
    Serfer, FS26, Senator Wan and 7 others like this.
  23. IG_2000

    IG_2000 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Just finished up The Fall of the House of Usher on Netflix. If anyone wants a really great show about Luke Skywalker and Abeloth!
     
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  24. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Didn't really think of it until now, but Enoch's faceplate makes him look kind of like a ROTS clone pilot.
     
    Foreign32567 likes this.
  25. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Ahsoka Pitch Meeting