Fanclub Aliit ori'shya tal'din: The Mandalorian Fanclub

another question regarding mando'a: how would you turn 'Sith' and 'the Force' into mando'a, not as translations but as loanwords?

 

Sith in Mando’a: Darjetii (Mando’a Translator)

Likely the would translate The Force in their corresponding sides:

Te Ashla: The Light Side
Te Bogan: The Dark Side

Optional: Te Midchloriani

Or they would call it the Force, since its a cross-Galatic word for the power that binds all livimg things together.

 

I think you misunderstood my, I was asking for 'Sith' and 'the Force' as loanwords, not as translations.

 

Vor entye.

 

Did you watch the bootleg leaked footage?!

 

Well I was loaning you some words lol

What exacrly are you looking for my Kryze Brother? I have a lot of time on my hands and could help you research what you want.

 

I'm looking for 'Sith' and 'the Force' as mando'a loanwords, like how English's smorgasbord is loanword from the Swedish smörgåsbord, or taboo is from Hawaiian kapu.

 

Loanwords are somewhat tricky with Mando'a, since Mandalorians are canonically stated to dislike using them in general. As the People and Culture article puts it: "Respect for the language's original form—and its inherent flexibility—means that few words are borrowed from other tongues. When the need for a new word arises, the Mandalorians prefer to create it from Mando'a's existing vocabulary."

Nevertheless, as with all all languages there are exceptions. As some Mandalorians seemingly used the term Siit for "Sith," instead of dar'jetii, so it stands to reason that someone, somewhere did something similar with "the Force." I could see te vhors used in such an instance, using the definitive article te to denote the magnitude of just which force is being referred to.

 

You knowledge of Mando’a is impressive Mia. *Pounds chest with fist* Ijaat at gar!

 

Thanks Mia

Ehm, I know that SW is not a 'verse that care about realism so the following... - is rant the right word? We go with that even if it feels wrong - ...rant about that's not how language work can be ignored:

Now unless a language exist in a controllable environment, like an island in the real world or a planet in SW, and there is a edict by the government of linguistic purism that prevent the use of loanwords by law (probably with a government group whose job is to create official new words from old ones to use for stuff you don't have words for instead of using loanwords),* so will loanwords come in, no matter how flexible your language is.
* and even than so will loanwords most likely creep in the spoken language and among unofficial writings

There are many reasons why loanword come into language:
* another language come up with something that there is no word in your language - like 'kindergarten' - and therefor you use the other language's word instead of trying to come up with a new word, or until you do and then the loanword stay as synonym;
* a foreign word exist for a concept that needs a sentence in your language - like 'schadenfreude', which English took from German - and therefor you use the other language's word to explain the concept;
* a foreign language is cool and therefor you use words from it, those words in time became parts of your language either overtaking the original words or becoming synonyms;
* a foreign language is seen as scholarly and therefor you use words from it to show that you are a learned person, those words in time became parts of your language either overtaking the original words or becoming synonyms;
* people speaking another langue live near or among you and words from their language became used any of the above mentioned reason or just because people know them and the words that have synonyms in your language either becoming synonyms or overtaking the original words;

Now the Mandalorians have existed for over 10.000 years; spread over a large area, often with people not speaking mando'a near or among them; and not always with a unified government. With all that so have I hard to see that mando'a only has a few loanwords.

But as I said before so is SW not a world that care about realism, or language (unlike Tolkien), so all my above points can be ignored.

 

I would love to learn Tuskan after I mast our langauage of Mando’a. I think there is much commonality between us Mandos and Tuskans, especially in regards to Ijaat. The difficulty would be getting premission to learn it from a Tuskan and not becoming fried Bantha.

 

It’s a bit quiet here, let’s do that I talked about some time ago and translate some tourist phrases in to mando’a. So, how would people translate the following sentences (interesting grammatical rules or when the translation would mean something completely different if direct translated back should be pointed out)?

Do you speak mando’a?
I don’t speak mando’a?
Do you speak basic?
Do you speak durese?
Call the police!
Where is the hospital?
Do you have a vacant room?
Have you got a table?
How much does this cost?

 

Do you speak Mando’a?
Tion'gar johaa'i Mando'a?

I don’t speak Mando’a.
Ni ne'johaa Mando'a.

Do you speak Basic?
Tion'gar johaa'i droten'joha? [Note 1]

Do you speak Durese?
Tion'gar johaa'i Duro'a?

Call the police!
Ke rejorhaa'i cabure!

Do you have a vacant room?
Ni copaani yamika ut'reeyah. [Note 2]

Have you got a table?
Ni copaani kajir.

How much does this cost?
Tion'solet par ibic?

Spoiler: Notes

Note 1: There's currently no canonical word for Basic. "Droten'joha" was coined by a fan and popularized among Tumblr's Mando-sphere, essentially shortening "Be'joha Tsad Droten"—the language of the Republic—to something equivalent to "the peoples' language." I like it, and have used it in projects past, but it's not an official thing.
Note 2: For food and service queries, Mandos tend to take the more direct approach. Convention typically holds that you don't ask if the other person has a thing that can be obtained, but rather (politely) assert your interest in said item, and wait for the other person to deliver or deny your request in response. In a cantina context, "Have you got a table?" and "I'd like a table." both function as the same request, but Mandalorians commonly prefer the more straightforward latter option.

 

Once again you show us all who's the mando'a master* Mia

Just wondering: If you can translate durese into duro'a, why don't you translate basic into something like basi'a instead of using a three word based portmanteau?

Also, why no translation for "Where is the hospital"?

* I was planning to use the mando'a word for master here but could not find it, it's just my searching ability that's bad or do there not exist a translation?

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Should I post some more sentences or am I only taking up space by doing that?

 

The Bounty Hunter Code introduces the term naur'alor, understood to mean "forgemaster," to describe those Mandos trained in the art of crafting beskar, so alor seems to cover "master."

If you break down the word Mando'a itself into its most logical roots, you would most likely get Mando and joha—"Mandalorian," and "language." By that metric, it's fairly reasonable to assume that a Mandalorian would make a similar construction for an equivalent other group of people. "Duro language," to "Duro joha," then simplified to "Duro'a." But Basic, as a term, isn't really comparable in the same way. It's not attached to any one ethno-group's identity, removing the simple "_____'s language" structure of Mando'a or Duro'a or anything similar, so you have to start getting a little more creative. Could you use something like Basic'a or Republic'a and be able to get your point across? Almost certainly. But I'm of the opinion that it just feels a little...inelegant.

Huh. I guess I just skipped over it somehow. Oops.
So, again, there's no official term for hospital, unfortunately. You could try "Tion'vaii jahaal'petir?"— "Where is the health center?"—or the more direct "Tion'vaii pirabune baar'ur?" to ask where the nearest doctor is.

Like you said, the thread's not exactly the most active right now, and that probably won't change too much until The Mandalorian starts up in November. So unless someone else has an issue, I'm good with it.

 

A possible problem with using Be'joha Tsad Droten / Droten'joha or Republic'a is that Basic is not just the language of the Republic but seems to be the overall lingua franca of the Galaxy.

But would not that actually make it more realistic since most languages have areas where they are inelegant.

Good to hear.


Here are some new tourist sentences for people to translate (interesting grammatical rules or when the translation would mean something completely different if direct translated back should be pointed out):

I would like to rent a speeder bike.

I would like to rent a landspeeder.

I would like to rent a airspeeder.

Is that blue gem a lapis?

Is that a Hrthgingian Firegem?

Is that a genuine loom-woven Harswee carpet?

Is that genuine tuft-oak wood?

Where can I find a strill kennel?

Where can I find a restaurant?

Where can I find a good restaurant?

Where can I find a cantina?

Where can I find a good cantina?

Where can I find a hotel?

Where can I find a good hotel?

Where can I find a cheap hotel?

Where can I find a game of sabacc?

I’m interested in discussing statistics. Especially permutations and combinations of the number seventy-eight, taken three at a time. Fives are wild.

 

That's a fair point, though Basic as we know it was born of the Republic, evolving from the languages of those first, early member cultures as they attempted to better communicate and coexist with one another.

Regardless, we're stuck in this weird, unfortunate space where we're looking for ways to communicate unique or complex ideas with a glossary that was left expansive but ultimately unfinished. Hopefully, one day, we can get somebody else willing to pick up the torch and continue to establish new terminology. Until then, all you can do is try to make yourself intelligible with the tools at hand.

I would like to rent a speeder bike.
Given that there's no canonical term for speeder bike, I've got be honest, I...have no idea how I'd translate it.

I would like to rent a landspeeder.
Ni copaani dar'verbori jaonvhe'sen.

[Note 1]​

I would like to rent a airspeeder.
Ni copaani dar'verbori abiik'sen.

Is that blue gem a lapis?
Tion ibac kebiin meshurok choruk'ebii? [Note 2]

Is that a Hrthgingian Firegem?
Tion tracyme'shurok teh Hrthging?

Is that genuine tuft-oak wood?
Tion veman [tuft-oak] shaap?

Where can I find a strill kennel?
Tion'vaii yaim teh stiile?

Where can I find a restaurant/cantina?
Tion'vaii pirabune epar'yaim?

Where can I find a good restaurant/cantina?
Tion'vaii jate epar'yaim?

Spoiler

Note 1: Dar'verbori = "buy temporarily" = "rent." Also, jaonvhe'sen: A starship is a me'sen and a submarine (watership) is a sho'sen, so it seems to stand to reason that a landspeeder (overland ship) could be translated similarly. The same goes for an airspeeder, as an airship, being translated as an abiik'sen.
Note 2: Lapis, or lapis lazuli, has a sort of tricky etymology that makes it difficult to translate. Lapis is simple enough, being the Latin word for "stone," so choruk. But lazuli is taken from Lazulum/Lazaward, where the rock was once notably mined. Can't really transplant that across settings, and trying to use the in-universe equivalent is a little dubious since though Mandalorian lapis is noted to come from Draboon, it's far from the only location in the galaxy where one could get lapis. Still, lapis lazuli's importance to the ancient world was such that it's distinctive blue coloration influenced a number languages—including Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese—tying it irrevocably to the color. So lapis in Mandalorian? Choruk'ebii, the "blue stone."

This time I double-checked, so if you don't see a translation for some phrases—and you definitely won't, sadly—it's not a screw up, it's because there's a gap in the lexicon that I just don't know where to even start filling in. Maybe someone else can tackle those.

 

I bow to Mia and her superior knowledge of Mando'a!

 

Maybe something like a portmanteau of "air machine-mount"?

Also, I'm surprised that there is one word only that's used for both 'mount' and 'pack animal'. Those two are rather different things that it feels like a culture like the mandalorians should have different words for each.

I don't know if <airship> work as a translation for 'airspeeder' since an airspeeder to my understanding is more akin to a car and a ship is something a bit bigger than that; 'boat' would fit better I think.

Okey, I have to admit: I did not know that lapis was a real kind of stone, I thought it was just another made up gemstone.

I would create a mando'a word that's based on Draboon, to indicate that to the mandaloians so is the stone associated with that planet. It would be like how many the Swedish (and some other languages) word for orange (the fruit) is a portmanteau of 'apple' and 'China'. Or turkey (the bird) got it's English name because it was believed it by many at that time that it come from Turkey controlled area.

You heard her people: lets get to it!

 

Just wondering: how do they present/explain naur'alor in The Bounty Hunter Code? I'm wondering because the title forgemaster feels strange to me as a title of a master crafts man, it feels more like a title for a person who's the master of an area.

regarding sabacc so would I use a loan word.

 

Here are some more sentences, this time of a less tourist kind:

Where is the Bounty Hunter Guild house?

I would like to hire a bounty hunter.

I would like to hire a guild licenced bounty hunter.

I would like to hire a bounty hunter for a illegal bounty. [this one feels like they should use some kind of slang term for illegal]

I would like to hire a bodyguard.

Do you have a license for operating in Republic space?

How would you like your payment?

 

The Bounty Hunter Code uses it very briefly, essentially in passing, because the text is formatted as though the intended in-universe reader—in this case a theoretical Death Watch Rally Master—would already be so familiar with the term that it would be unnecessary to explicitly define it at such time. But, that term's given to us with a similar understanding that we, the actual reader, would be able to view it through the contextual lens of the pre-existing dictionary. Nau'ur, the basis of the term nau'ur kad—"to forge"—is a verb, not a noun. We actually don't know precisely what the Mando'a word for the physical object or the place is, only the act. But because it uses the established verb as its root, rather than a new noun, its understood that a naur'alor isn't the boss of a forge, but a master of the art of forging itself.

Where is the Bounty Hunter Guild house?
Tion'vaii Tsad Beroya yaim?

I would like to hire a bounty hunter.
Ni copaani verbori beroya.

I would like to hire a guild licensed bounty hunter.
Ni copaani verbori beroya duumyc de Tsad Beroya.

I would like to hire a bounty hunter for a illegal bounty.
Yeah, this one probably wouldn't make the tourist brochures.
Ni copaani verbori beroya par neduumyc bora. — Literal, straight-forward translation
Ni copaani verbori beroya par chur'kajir bora. — Euphemistic [Translation: chur'kajir–"under-the-table"]

I would like to hire a bodyguard.
Ni copaani verbori ver'gebuir.

Do you have a license for operating in Republic space?
Tion gar duumyc bah borari o'r Tsad Droten'tra?

How would you like your payment?
Me'copaani gar waadas?

 

Is there any mando'a term similar to the Italian condottieri?

Also is there any mando'a terms for:
* somebody who kills from the shadows, hidden places and similar?
* the leader of a group of bounty hunter? Asking since at least among mandalorian OC:s so do bounty hunting seems to be one of the main occupations, and it feels like there could be a specific term for that.
* Cubistic architecture?
* the Picasso inspired art style we see in TCW?

And:
* if you would like to hire space fighters for something, protections or raids f.ex., how would you say that?

Thanks
Then I would say that 'forging-master' would be a better translation into English.

 

Hmm...well, condottiero originally derives from the old Italian word for "contractor." Though the term is almost universally understood to mean mercenary—ver'verd—when used in a military context, you could also move toward the more literal reading of one who acts according to a contract: a koor'ad or koor'or.

However, if we're looking at the term's more common understanding, a condottiero is often described not as a lone mercenary, but as a mercenary captain, a commander of a for-hire army. Looking at that, and using the Mand'alor's secondary title of Al'Ori'Ramikade—"Commander of Supercommandos"—as a guideline, I'd suggest al'ver'verde would be the Mandalorian equivalent of condottiero, as it means "commander of mercenaries."

A hidden or concealed killer? Haaranovla kyramud.

Similar to the condotierro point above, I would probably say a leader of a bounty hunter group would be an al'beroyase.

I imagine that both styles would be described by in-universe terminology more solidly rooted in New Mandalorian culture than anything we currently have on the books.

Ni copaani verbori trat'aliit be me'sene, bal adade linibyc.
"I want to hire a squadron of starships, and the necessary crew."

Sure, that's a perfectly valid translation. I've just seen "forgemaster" used often enough as a compound word that it's what leaped out at me.

 

I haven't seen the leaked footage yet. I actually kinda want to wait, see it when I can really see it. Even though I am pretty sure that when I do I will be disappointed because we won't hear the Mandalorian muttering to himself in Mando'a most likely.

Mia, you impress and amaze with your grasp of the language and multiple sources you seem to have memorized to share so much!

Gamiel, took the words out of my mind for Forging-master! I was so ready to type that reply when I read yours!