An intelligent discussion about masturbation

LeeKenobi. *sigh* Read the last two pages of this thread, they've been talking about Onan for awhile now.

 

Well, Onan was sinning. He was breaking the Biblical law that the second eldest son has to marry the eldest son's wife and have kids. Of course, he didn't want to have kids with her because that would mean that the kid gets all his inheritance from his father and he would get squat. So he rebelled against Biblical law. God wasn't happy.

 

Peeps-it's mastUrbation, not mastErbation.


Seriously, you get to know your body, what your body likes, and it's supposed to make your sex life better-women, who masturbate tend to have orgasms during sex more than women who do not. It's also good for relieving menstrual cramps (if you feel squeamish, use the shower method, or a vibe).

As for it being dirty for women-look up the history of vibrators. Originally, women who were horny were diagnosed as having "hysteria", basically that something was wrong with their wombs. They'd go to the doctor, who would actually masturbate them to orgasm-that's when the vibrator was invented. (Mods, may I link to a site about the history of the vibrator? I assure you, there is NOTHING bad on it, it's all very scholarly).




Masturbation is probably the safest sex one can have. (Just as long as you wash your hands after handling a dead woodchuck, that is!)


Um, CaptainArdiff-the =/= or != means something does NOT equal. In other words, he was saying Christianity is NOT about torture.

goldbubbly-Catholicism doesn't allow birth control, AT ALL. Except for natural family planning and the old rhythem method (aka Vatican Roulette).

However, masturbation is not a simple pleasure of life- it overwhelms your life. I'm not saying that everyone who masturbates masturbates 24/7, but if you indulge in it, it becomes an unnecessarily powerful urge. You could be doing far better things with your time, IMO.

I'm sorry, Terr, but that's bull. The only thing that overwhelmed me in the beginning was the idea that I should be "ashamed." And I did feel that way for a long time. Finally, I got over it.

It is NOT selfish, anymore than eating a hot fudge sundae is selfish.

Sex for pleasure, between two people is NOT selfish either, if they're not planning to conceive. What about infertile couples? What about the elderly? (Yes, they have sex too.) So once a woman goes through menopause, it would be selfish to have sex with her husband? If they enjoy giving and receiving pleasure, that's NOT selfish.


darthtuttle-any Christian presuming to judge who is and who is not a TRUE Christian, probably isn't pleasing God, either.

Quite frankly, I don't think God would have made us the way we are, if he's just gonna condemn us to hell if we ACT on it.

If God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, why did he let them? God lets us make our own choicws, because he loves us

So, basically he makes us this way and says, "Yeah, I made you this way-but you're not allowed to use it! Even though it's totally a natural thing about your body, but you can't do it because I SAID SO."

You know what? If that's how God is, he's a bully and I refuse to worship a bully. To "test" people is manipulative and it speaks of insecurity and an over-needy ego. That kind of being does not DESERVE to be worshipped. And if that gets me sent to hell, in the words of Palpatine, "So be it."


Anyhoo, as for lusting after someone, what about fictional characters? If I fantasize about a young Obi-Wan Kenobi, ala AOTC and ROTS, I'm not really committing adultery, as Obi-Wan doesn't really exist, right?

LOOPHOLE!!!

 

Of course, I don't think God would get mad at anybody for pleasuring themselves, what with all other BIG things happening in the world.

What difference does it make? Sin is sin.

Masturbation has every quality of sexual sin as described in the Bible. It is a self-serving indulgence, a 'compromise' with temptation that does not rid you of the temptation, but rather makes you a slave to it.

I'm sorry, Terr, but that's bull. The only thing that overwhelmed me in the beginning was the idea that I should be "ashamed." And I did feel that way for a long time. Finally, I got over it.

It is NOT selfish, anymore than eating a hot fudge sundae is selfish.

Could you give up eating hot fudge sundaes altogether? Absolutely. Could you give up pleasuring yourself or receiving sexual pleasure altogether? Judging by the way most people seem to think and feel, it seems unlikely. Thinking that you can't not masturbate indicates that it's addictive right there, and if you're a Christian, it makes it clear that it is a controlling sin. It is possible, although much less likely, to be addicted to eating hot fudge sundaes, but only if you succumb to gluttony.

Sex for pleasure, between two people is NOT selfish either, if they're not planning to conceive. What about infertile couples? What about the elderly? (Yes, they have sex too.) So once a woman goes through menopause, it would be selfish to have sex with her husband? If they enjoy giving and receiving pleasure, that's NOT selfish.

I never argued for the whole 'sex only for reproduction' argument, actually. If you're married, then have sex all you want. But love should never, never be lost in the desire for pleasure. So many people marry for lust, mistaking it for love, and then their marriages end. I'm telling you, selflessness is the only way to love!

And I'm sorry, but all this stuff about 'preparing oneself to be good at sex' and 'knowing how to please' is utter bull. If you really think that's so important, then I highly suggest you re-evalute your life. I've said all that I needed to say on this subject.

 

Could you give up eating hot fudge sundaes altogether? Absolutely. Could you give up pleasuring yourself or receiving sexual pleasure altogether? Judging by the way most people seem to think and feel, it seems unlikely. Thinking that you can't not masturbate indicates that it's addictive right there, and if you're a Christian, it makes it clear that it is a controlling sin. It is possible, although much less likely, to be addicted to eating hot fudge sundaes, but only if you succumb to gluttony.


What in the world are you talking about? Giving up hot fudge sundaes and giving up masturbating both might require willpower, but they're both completely possible. Why would you consider one of them impossible?

 

People have different sex drives as well.

Someone who claims they don't masturbate may not be as much of a hornball as someone who does.

I've already said more about my personal life than everyone needs to know, but me and my wife both regularly masturbate. We also have sex regularly and go at it like a couple of minks.

We both have very high sex drives and if we tried to refrain from our urges, we'd both go insane and claw through the walls of our home.

I'm wondering if some of the "masturbating is bad" people understand this?

 

What in the world are you talking about? Giving up hot fudge sundaes and giving up masturbating both might require willpower, but they're both completely possible. Why would you consider one of them impossible?

*sigh* I've said again and again that it's not impossible to overcome masturbation, or any addictive behavior for that matter. If you only masturbate once in a blue moon, I can't argue with that on a secular level. I can't convince you to feel it's wrong.

And there's no such thing as a 'fixed' sex drive. It's foolish to think you have so little control over your own body. It is absolutely possible to go from feeling that you must receive sexual release or you'll go crazy, to having total self-control. Trust me. You may have a high sex drive or whatever, but you're still surrendering to an addiction that easily plagues many people.

 

Okay, then why are you assuming it's harder to give up masturbating than it is to give up hot fudge sundaes ?

 

Okay, then why are you assuming it's harder to give up masturbating than it is to give up hot fudge sundaes ?

Let me just chime in and say that I've given up foods I enjoyed very much. But guess what? Not masturbation.

 

It is absolutely possible to go from feeling that you must receive sexual release or you'll go crazy, to having total self-control. Trust me. You may have a high sex drive or whatever, but you're still surrendering to an addiction that easily plagues many people.

Bullcrap of the highest order.

Ever think that maybe the reason it plagues so many people is because it's a natural urge of all biological lifeforms, that according to the Bible, God was responsible for creating us with? It's a natural psychological condition.

There's no way to prove for or against God's existence, so it's merely a matter of personal preference. But pushing your preference on the rest of us is pushing your luck in 1) not annoying people in real life, and 2) not getting reported to a moderator on here.

Pwnz0red.

So, basically he makes us this way and says, "Yeah, I made you this way-but you're not allowed to use it! Even though it's totally a natural thing about your body, but you can't do it because I SAID SO."

You know what? If that's how God is, he's a bully and I refuse to worship a bully. To "test" people is manipulative and it speaks of insecurity and an over-needy ego. That kind of being does not DESERVE to be worshipped. And if that gets me sent to hell, in the words of Palpatine, "So be it."

That isn't how God is. The anti-masturbation party's understanding of God is severely flawed and without basis in logic or Scripture.

God has not ONCE "tested" people. Any "trees" as well as most of the rest of the Bible, is symbolic of something else. Now, speaking strictly from the Bible -- in ALL cases, God has merely allowed Satan the same freedom of choice he grants mortal beings, and because Satan hates God, he seeks to undermine absolutely everything for God's creations in the mortal world. It's not at all provable, but the interpretation of God being put forth here is not correct either empirically or Scripturally.

 

I have no idea what this has to do with Star Wars but all I have to say is...

May the force of masturbation be with you all!!!

Now if you'll excuse me................

 

And there's no such thing as a 'fixed' sex drive. It's foolish to think you have so little control over your own body. It is absolutely possible to go from feeling that you must receive sexual release or you'll go crazy, to having total self-control. Trust me. You may have a high sex drive or whatever, but you're still surrendering to an addiction that easily plagues many people.

PPOR. I've read that being depressed or whatever may give you a lower-than-normal sex drive, but that's when it's to the point that it can be clinically diagnosed. I have a hard time believing that we're all SUPPOSED to be clinically depressed.

It's possible to go without sleep, or to feel less tired, and different people need different amounts, but you still NEED sleep (psychologically). Does that make sleep an 'addiction'?

 

It's not easy to do when your hands reject you.

Seriously, I've never given the subject much thought, because it's not something that ever did anything for me. How many people are honest enough to admit that they DON'T do it? Not because of religious or other moral reasons, not because of hang-ups about sex and their dead grandmother looking down and shrieking from the Great Infinity...but just because they don't feel like it?

Because it seems somewhat peculiar that the shift in thinking has gone to the other extreme, that every single living human being has these damned sexual urges they MUST act upon. If they don't, there's something wrong with them, and of COURSE that must be corrected in order for them to be considered functional in normal society. Sez who?

 

How much was Jesus like us when he was a teenager?
I'm one of those Christians who don't believe Jesus was born with a halo around his head, or whithout blood everywhere.

That stable must have been really smelly, too. What I'm saying is that Jesus was a man and yet God, but where do you draw the line? Did he flick off his mom when she turned around after she yelled at him? Did he feel the urge to have premarital sex? Was he tempted to check out the girls at the temple? Are these sins? Is masturbation a sin? Maybe he masturbated? Who knows. It's sound blasphemous, but I'm serious.

*shrugs*

 

no to all of those he did not have those urges he is god and cannot sin

 

alpha-I certainly don't believe God is like that at all! However, it seems a lot of people DO believe in a God like that, and it annoys me to no end that they keep trying to tell me I have to worship this thing or go to Hell. (Not anyone here in particular, just in general). Even when I was a Christian (raised Catholic, now I just believe that there's something and that's it), I never believed that.

But people will say, "Well, yes, we have that, but see, God will punish you," I point out that a.) such a being is NOT a "loving" God and b.) I'm willing to accept the consequences if that being WAS the truth. But since he's not, I'm not worried.

See?

I think people can certainly refrain from sundaes and masturbation alike. But why should they, just for the sake of "self-control?" That's silly.

Of course, if you don't WANT to masturbate, you don't have to. But those of us who do, will. And if you think we're being selfish and immoral, so be it. That's YOUR problem, not mine.

Can we NOT turn this into yet ANOTHER religious debate? We have them in spades over at the Senate.

This thread is supposed to be about self-love. You know, the "greatest love of all?"

 

Masterbation is no way a sin!

God never said "Thou Shall not Masterbate on ye Sabbath". The only people who considered it a sin are church officials and other religious leaders. Last time I checked, THEY'RE NOT GOD! They have no buisness telling people that. I can go on and on about this..

so much better being a satanist!

 

I used to have a T-shirt with a picture of Christ masturbating. My mother hated it.

 

What I'm saying is that Jesus was a man and yet God, but where do you draw the line?

He never sought a group session with the Three Wise Men. And he totally ixnayed anything kinky with the camels and the donkeys, and a whole bunch of chickens and other assorted poultry.

 

The whole point behind Jesus' sacrifice would be moot if he never battled with sinful urges, from my understanding. God became the second Adam, under the curse of sin, to defeat sin and death. He conquered sin, and died. He didn't have to pay for his sins because he didn't commit any, so he paid for ours instead.

If he had somehow sinned, his death would pay his debt. But if he hadn't battle some temptation (not neccessarily commiting the sin) in his life, then it's like he had no right to take on our sin- it would be like bouncing a check, but on a Messianic scale. Are any Protestants out there getting my point? Or Catholics even? Shoot, I'll be glad if an religously-educated atheist gets my point here.

 

I'm a protestant. I believe Jesus, as a man, was tempted by all sorts of things and faced all sorts of trials that we as humans face (and some that most of us never will). I do not, however, believe that he ever gave into a temptation to commit any type of sin. He was man, but he was also God and therefore the absolute purity of God in him allowed him to combat temptation. The death of Jesus was intentionally meant to be symbolic to the Jews of the sacrifice of Passover Lambs. They made these sacrifices because God had commanded them to, to spill the blood of something pure (a lamb) as an atonement for their sins. But Jesus, who was completely pure, was sacrificed as the ultimate and final sacrifice for the sins of all who would accept it. This is why Jesus is referred to in both Testaments as 'The Lamb of God'. Today, a lot of that symbolism is lost because many don't understand Jewish history well. But it's an important thing to note when addressing the purity of Christ.

That was somewhat of a tangent, but at least now everyone knows where I'm coming from (as if they didn't before ). Look, I don't agree with Terr on quite everything he's said, but I defintiely do overall. I think I could explain a few of his points better but I feel as though no one is really listening anyway, only looking for opportunities to take jabs at Christians to make themselves feel 'Cooler than Thou'. Terr is not trying to tell you what to do as non-Christians, he's simply trying to shed some light on a Christian (and heavily Catholic influenced) point of view. But you're not interested in listening or learning, only in trying to make the best little pithy comments.

I will say this, though. What the heck is this 'mortal sin' crap? I'm so sick of people saying 'Christians always tell me if I'm going to Hell because I did _______'. Either you're biased and misinterpretting their beliefs, or you've been hearing from some rather Pharisaic Christians. As humans, we all make mistakes. We all do things wrong. I don't think anyone can deny that. The Christian belief is simply that God is without fault and therefor anyone with fault cannot enter his presence. Jesus is the atoning sacrifice to redeem us of our faults if we accept him. And as part of our acceptance, we commit to do our *best* with the help of the Spirit to emmulate the selfless, unconditional, universal love of Christ that has been displayed for us.

Yes, I know many Christians do not share the love God has given them, and I'm truly sorry for that. But many of you who claim to be so well off without God, so loving and accepting of all people, still hate Christians openly. If only people on both sides would stop casting first stones and listen, but alas, I think that is but a slim possibility here. So unless anyone has any serious questions they'd like to address about Christian objections to masturbation and other things that have been brought up in relation to that, I'll be keeping quiet on the subject.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

=/= means does not equal? Oops. Er, my sincere apologies, alpha. Please excuse my ignorance!

 

Actually, they did say "On the 7th day God rested".


I've had people come up and tell me that I could continue to masturbate all I wanted if I declared Jesus Christ as my personal Savior.

 

so next time i want an ice cream cone i'll go into the fridge and get some wheat grass and munch on that, instead. after all, ice cream is not nutritional, and to be selfish enough to eat one would be gratifying a temporary urge.

 

Why would anyone want to stop doing this? It doesnt hurt anyone unless your rough with yourself. I personally dont think its a bad thing at all. I dont want to see anyone but my wife do it, but I think people should enjoy themselves.