Anakin diagnosed as "borderline personality" by scientists

Not quite sure whether this is the right place, but we've had some similar discussions in the past. If it belongs anywhere else, mods, please refer me there.

Star Was has proven food for thought for scientists once again. French psychiatrists have diagnosed Anakin Skywalker as a case of borderline personality. A research paper titled ""Is Anakin Skywalker suffering from borderline personality disorder?" is about to be published in "Psychiatry Research".

According to psychiatrists Bui and Rogers at Toulouse University hospital, Anakin hits six out of nine borderline personality disorder criteria as defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition (DSM-IV), including impulsivity and anger management issues, abandonment issues, dissociative episodes and identity issues.

The researchers point out that "the emperor's dark and destabilizing influence upon a young Skywalker might have even exacerbated the symptoms of borderline personality disorder."

The psychiatrists also state: "I believe that psychotherapy would have helped Anakin and might have prevented him from turning to the dark side," Bui said. "Using the dark side of the Force could be considered as similar to drug use: It feels really good when you use it, it alters your consciousness and you know you shouldn?t do it."

More information here:
http://www.livescience.com/culture/psychology-darth-vader-revealed-100604.html


So, borderline personality disorder and the Dark Side, Sidious' influence and the Jedi's - how did it work all together? There's been a bit of controversy here in regard to the Jedi's treatment of Anakin, and I believe that the statement that psychotherapy might have helped Anakin to be water on the mills of those who claimed that the Jedi were guilty of not giving enough emotional support to him, and not getting through to him.

I'd be interested if there's anyone with a bit more knowledge about borderline personality disorder and can add some thoughts - in particular how it might manifest in the OT as well?

 

The article makes sense, although I find it a bit amusing that French psychiatrists have time to diagnose fictional characters.

As far as how it manifests itself in the OT, I think Force-choking pilots who won't answer his questions "correctly" or admirals who come out of light speed too soon, could definitely be a symbol of an anger management issue. However, what would explain the change towards the end of ESB and in ROTJ? Vader did not choke Piett when Han escaped, although Piett was clearly expecting it. Vader also kept his emotions in check with Luke. Maybe the latter had something to do with knowing that he had failed Padme and possibly led her to her death? And he did not want to do the same for Luke?

I don't have a background in psychology, I'm just speculating there.

 

This is old news....Madonna had Anakin pegged long before this:

 

Ahh....1983.

 

Ahhh...that song brought back some junior high skating rink memories.

 

Ok, so if that is how you explain to students about BP then is what a pyschologist going to say to a parent?
Yes your son has Borderline Personality disorder. Think of him like Anakin Skywalker, you know Darth Vader. I suggest you watch all six SW movies to get an idea of your son conditions.

Well that explains the constant whining and substandard teenage dialogue he uses.

 

Guh. Not a fan of diagnosing imaginary people with mental issues.

Star Wars is supposed to be mythical, for the love of crumbcake. Applying real life to it just doesn't plain work within the rules of the story-making Palpatine or Vader the victim of mental illnesses diminishes their evil by mitigating their level of responsibility. It moves them from being incredibly horrifying people who are doing the things they do because they honestly believe it's the right thing to to do, to the intergalactic equivalent of David Berkowitz, who murdered people because his neighbor's dog told him to do it.

These French psychologists are missing the whole point of these characters, I think-that the capacity for evil is innate to everyone, not just crazy people.

 

Yes, Anakin had issues.

http://www.sagajournal.com/smidealizedimage.html

 

The relationships between the characters are quite real...it's the BACKGROUND that is mythical.

 

This sort of analysis would only work if Anakin was written as a three-dimensional human character.

 

I'm all for plumbing the depths of these characters--yes, Anakin essentially married his mother, betrayed a series of father figures, raped his daughter and castrated his son--but diagnoses seems to be stretching it. After all, what would work in a James Baldwin novel would not be applicable to Don Quixote.

Bottom line: If you can't imagine a certain character going to the bathroom, then any attempt at diagnosis is probably misguided.

 

You can't imagine Anakin going to the bathroom?

 

No. And I'm not gonna try.

 

Too late!

[image=http://www.images.generallyawesome2.com/photos/funny/photos/darth-vader-porto-potty.jpg]

 

Before I answer please let me say that I have actually grown up with someone who has this, and have pored and pored over reference books on it for years trying to understand it. I have books on my shelf about BPD I am prepared to bet some professionals don't own. I speak fluent BPD; the person in question talked out loud about their thought process to me for years and expected me to see the world as they saw it. Needless to say, my young adult years were fraught with challenges as I entered the world and found it, um, not as advertised! I have been dealing with emotional problems related to this for my entire life; no doubt people who encountered me at times on these boards in the past have caught some inkling.

First of all I disagree with the above opinion. GL always meant the stories to say something important about real life.

Once upon a time, some gallant soul on the ROTS spoiler board, I think, before it was retired, looked up GL quotes from many many many interviews he has given about the films over the last 30 years. I don't remember that person or the location of the thread, but those many quotes have led me to this interpretation of Lucas's work. (If anyone knows the poster or remembers the location of the thread, can you post it here?) When Lucas talks about the stories and how/why he wrote the stories, it's clear he means to say something through Anakin about why people do heinous things to other people. He means to say a lot about life in general. When he wrote the first film and generated the concept of the Force, for example, he said he did it so that kids would be inspired to start thinking about the concept of God/spirituality in their life. Not any particular concept, but that they should have one, and that it's important. In one quote I read, he said he was disappointed that the deeper, more important issues in SW get no attention, and that he wished they did.

Applying real life to Star Wars does work, big time. Part of the intent of the stories is to get people thinking about serious questions that affect all of society: When people "go wrong" like this, how should we treat them? What is the highest and best thing to do? How can we prevent these people from ending up like this in the first place? All over these boards, people are thinking and talking about these very questions, and they have been for years. When Anakin makes an unwise choice, he makes it for some of the same reasons wife abusers and child abusers do every day. If we can understand him, we can start to understand them. If we understand them, we can make some inroads into healing the problems. When Luke Skywalker makes a choice that saves the entire galaxy, he does so with the same thought process that has rehabilitated troubled people from underachieving children to hardened criminals. If we understand that thinking, and we can apply it in our own lives, then every adult and especially every child whose lives we touch will be the better for it. In the films, Lucas is depicting some very tough concepts in what is perhaps one of the best ways to make them understood.

The films are kind of like high school. The education is there, if you choose to take advantage of it. If you want to just look at the pretty stuff on the screen and get off on the explosions and blow the rest off, you can do that, too. But you're missing the most important part.

I have mental illness in my family. My grandmother and all of her sisters we

 

Thank you for opening up, LLL; I do hope you post that follow-up.

To reiterate, although Lucas was clearly interested in providing a psychological validity to Anakin's dissolution--much appreciated, BTW--I'm wary of utilizing this kind of clinical language. This is a larger-than-life figure that we're dealing with here.

It reminds me of a discussion that took place on another website several years ago, revolving around whether the cinematic James Bond could be classified as a sociopath. The question initially intrigued me, as there are disturbing implications to the character. And yet, in sifting through all the criteria for psychopathy, the posters made a mess of things: pitting incarnation against incarnation; weighing various misdeeds against acts of gallantry; speculating about childhood predilections. A complete mess. In the end, the films simply weren't designed to stand up to such analysis. So it goes with Star Wars; an infinitely smarter, more elegant series, to be sure, but just as divorced from the universe these psychologists inhabit.

 

I'm saying that it isn't. But I think Anakin's correct diagnosis wouldn't be BPD.

 

Finished the essay. It's 14 pages handwritten. I'll type it up here as I get time.

 

The dark side of the Force = Sam Carr's demon dog

 

I have loved Star Wars for almost 30 years now, but wow, the French can waste money

 

Educating people about BPD, or any mental illness, by any means that works, is never a waste of money.

Read on, here's the essay. Pieces will go up as I get them typed.





Is Anakin Skywalker Suffering From BPD? A Rebuttal


This essay is an open response to the French psychiatrist Eric Bui,
Toulouse University Hospital, and researcher Rachel Rodgers, Center for Studies and Research in Applied Psychology, France, and their letter to the editor, "Is Anakin Skywalker Suffering From Borderline Personality Disorder?" forthcoming in the journal Psychiatry Research.

A few words about me: I have grown up with someone who exhibits marked borderline traits, and have pored and pored for years over reference books from Krieger to Linehan in an attempt to understand the disorder, comparing what I was reading to what I was observing. I have books on my shelf about BPD I am prepared to bet some mental health professionals don't own. I speak fluent BPD; the person in question spoke their thought processes aloud to me for decades and expected me to see the world as they saw it. Needless to say, my young adult years were fraught with challenges as I entered the world and found it, um, not as advertised! I have been dealing with emotional and social problems related to this for my entire life; no doubt some who have encountered me in years gone by have caught some inkling. I possess an advanced degree in the sciences; however, it is not in medicine or mental health.

I am also a true student of the Star Wars films, as the most avid of fans tends to be. Avid Star Wars fans watch these films multiple times. One only needs to visit the message boards at TheForce.net to appreciate the depth of the thinking about character and motivation.

I would like to stipulate that, as I do not have a degree in medicine or psychology, I have not seen the actual letter to the editor in question. What this essay actually is is a response to the article written about it by Jeremy Hsu, recently featured on LiveScience and Fox News online.

As stated, I have many volumes on BPD. For purposes of this writing my main sources will be Integrative Treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder by John D. Preston, Psy.D., ABPP, and a second, but tangentially related book (and I will explain how), Bright Minds, Poor Grades: Understanding and Motivating Your Underachieving Child, by Michael D. Whitley, Ph.D.

I certainly respect the fact that, as professors, clinicians, and researcher, Bui and his colleagues are definitely "in the trenches" battling the extreme and seemingly intractable suffering that accompanies BPD. However, in the case of BPD, there are two trenches in which those dealing with the disorder and its symptoms may be found: the treatment setting, and the homes and cars, churches and workplaces where everyday people live their lives.

The treatment setting is typically where we find the low-functioning BP: the person who is suicidal or acting out in some other extreme manner; burning or cutting him or herself; alcohol or drug addicted; often unable to hold a job. These people's symptoms are so obvious and impossible to ignore that they are probably in the treatment setting willingly; even they know they have serious problems with day-to-day living. This certainly does not describe Anakin Skywalker. His Jedi mentors admitted him to the Order because of his special abilities; clearly he can handle most aspects of day-to-day living. If he is not a low-functioning BP, then he must be a high-functioning one, if indeed he is one at all.

The high-functioning BP has a different set of difficulties in dealing with day-to-day life, one of the most notable being a tendency to blame everyone else around him for his feelings and problems and to deny any and all responsibility for the things that don't go well in his life. These people don't come to the treatment setting willingly, and if they do, they are soon offended and gone. These are the BP's who are known to those of us in the second trench: we friends,

 

The article points out that Anakin Skywalker "went back and forth between idealizing and devaluing Jedi mentors, such as a hapless young Obi-Wan Kenobi." Perhaps the actual letter deals differently with this issue, but as stated I believe it to be inaccurate on three counts.

First, any fan of the Star Wars films can attest to the fact that Anakin does not vacillate rapidly or repeatedly in his opinion of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Rather, the relationship is more like a long, slow, "U"-shaped curve of ten years' duration.

When they first meet, Anakin is neither idealizing Kenobi nor devaluing him. He likes Kenobi well enough, but the Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn is the person who's going to train him. Qui-Gon has rescued him from slavery for just that reason; he's even threatened to defy the Jedi Council to train Anakin. When Qui-Gon is killed, circumstances pair Anakin with Kenobi as his substitute mentor.

The next time we see the pair, in Attack of the Clones, they are definitely at the bottom of the U-shaped curve. Kenobi scolds and lectures; Anakin chafes and complains to Padme that he feels misunderstood.

When a BP devalues someone, he does so in rapid cycles. The other person is good one day and bad the next, not good one decade and bad the next. Second, close inspection of the thought process of the BP reveals that he does this because he is incapable of holding two opposing perceptions of the person in his attention at the same time; in Anakin's case, we have Obi-Wan is a skilled Jedi who has taught me a lot of good things, and He never has anything good to say about me. He's always angry and scolding and he doesn't understand my thoughts and feelings. Preston writes, (The BP's) "approach to thinking?has been referred to as 'stimulus-bound,' which describes the tendency to become so focused on the events of the moment that one loses perspective and awareness of historical antecedents or future consequences."

When two opposing facts are true at the same time, this is known as a "dialectic." In fact, developing the BP's ability to resolve conflicting perceptions into a coherent whole is a cornerstone of the first successful therapy for BPD, and its name, Dialectical Behavior Therapy, is reflective of that fact.

Anakin Skywalker, however, in his lines to Padme about Obi-Wan, says pretty much what I've pointed out in the preceding paragraph within the same conversation. He is aware of both sides of the coin that is Obi-Wan; he can be reflective enough to tell Padme all about them without any help or prompting. This is not characteristic of your average BP.

 

(more as I get it typed in)

 

Economy must really be bad if psychiatrists have nothing better to do that look at a movie character.