Anakin: "It's not fair !!"

I had this thread typed up years ago, at least before ROTS came out, but I don't think I ever got around to posting it. It might be late, and not have any ROTS examples (except for some speculation I made a while ago), but I think it still fits for the Saga forum and you wouldn't have known I wrote it years ago if I didn't just tell you! Here it goes:

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Is it NOT FAIR for Anakin ?


When I first envisioned the PT I thought Anakin would be trained against a threat to the Old Republic, whose leader was the Emperor. Anakin would be brought up, being trained to take down Emperor Palpatine by Obi-wan, but in the end he chose to join his enemy, and destroy his friends for power. But the Anakin in the real prequel trilogy is going though the exact opposite. Basically the same as the OT, except Anakin was a power hungry version of Luke who made the wrong decision when Luke made the right one in ROTJ.

Luke knew the Emperor was evil, responsible for countless deaths, wars, oppressed and enslaved his own people. The Emperor was constantly mocking him too. Yoda and Obi-wan specifically taught Luke how to take him down, and not give into the dark side, constantly being warned about it. The Emperor was his enemy, threatening that his friends are dying, and rebellion is being crushed. Vader tempts Luke by threatening to turn Leia. And when Luke looked at his father's cut arm, he feels connection, merciful, sorry, that his father went though this same trial.

Anakin, on the other hand, is the opposite.

Anakin knew from the beginning that Palpatine was some one in the government you should respect and admire. The Chancellor was the savior of the galaxy, wanting peace, trying to negotiate with the violent Separatists. The Chancellor was constantly admiring him, giving him extra attention and recognition, making Anakin proud of himself. The Council never gave him any talks about the dark side, except for Yoda's fear quote in the very beginning, and he isn't even told why the dark side is bad, the Jedi are too cautious to even mention it. They were putting him down, compared to the Chancellor's praise. The Chancellor was his hero, his guide, a father-figure. The Chancellor gives him secrets that will keep him alive, keep him from suffering, telling him its okay to get attached and hold on, telling him to destroy his enemies, be part of the Empire that will bring peace and order to the galaxy. When Anakin is in the position to strike down Count Dooku, its not his father, he has no connection, he feels hatred, and revenge.

Also, a lot of good events happen to luke, and bad events happen to Anakin, that favor Luke over Anakin, and is beyond anyone's control.

Luke and Anakin both wanted to leave for for greatness in the stars. Luke loses his aunt and uncle, Anakin loses his mother. BUT Anakin has the power to fight back, Luke is inexperienced, and gives Luke even more reason to go against the Empire. If Luke had the power, he would fight back in fury, and give into the Dark Side like Anakin.

Luke and Anakin wanted to leave to save loved ones, Leia/Han and Shmi. Nothing happens to Han and Leia, in fact they save Luke. But Anakin loses Shmi. What would have happened if Leia and Han DID die, and Vader told Luke this?

They also had very different childhoods. Anakin was raised a slave, and taught to fear death from masters like Watto and Gardulla since birth, because of the slave transmitters. Luke wasn?t spoiled, he was raised by two hard-working farmers, but he wasn?t a slave. And it might also explain why Anakin was more rebellious, who, after winning his freedom, wanted to stay free from all rules of society and only do things his way. So, to Anakin, the Jedi were a sign of slavery. But for Luke, the Jedi were a sign of hope and freedom.

Luke has a special interest in his father, and Anakin has a special attachment to his mother. To Luke his father represents freedom, hope, and is the reason why Obi-wan gives him freedom. To Anak

 

This bit is probably true, the Emporer did a terrible job in trying to turn Luke.



EDIT: I personally believe that Anakin's fate was his own fault, his destiny was to destroy the sith though how he got there was up to him.

 

Oh, it was definetely Anakin responsible for his own choices, but I'm saying he would have chosen differently, if other things beyond control had been different.

What do you think Lucas is trying to say with this? Because if he's trying to say that our lives are determined by things beyond our control, it's a rather, umm, unsettling thought to be left with.

 

I believe that what he's saying is, among other things, that your focus determines your reality. Anakin mostly focused on the negative and that drew him towards the dark side. In ROTS, his main focus was on the fact that he might lose Padmé and he did everything in his might to prevent that from happening.
Luke, on the other hand, focused, in ROTJ, primarily on the fact that he might win Anakin back to the good side and he did everything in his might to do it.
The focus of our heroes was affected by things beyond their control, though, so....



Choice or circumstance?
/LM

 

I think its the ability to adapt and learn from mistakes that separates Luke from Anakin. They did have somewhat different circumstances, but Luke had the integrity to resist temptation and remain on the good side. This resulted from the choices Luke made regarding the situations he was presented with.

Lucas has commented on how Anakin is in a lot of the same situations Luke was in. Anakin says yes, but Luke says no. Luke made some mistakes along the way, but he didn't have a mad lust for power and was strong enough not to take the quick and easy path.

I think we're meant to feel sorry for Anakin because he was somewhat tricked into joining the dark side. However, everything happened as a result of Anakin's choices and inability to let go of his greed and fear. For this reason, I don't think Anakin's situation is totally unfair. It happened because of his own actions.

 

Luke primarily didn't love the Chancellor like a grandfather and feel loyalty and affection for him.

Luke can't even be compared to Anakin, a slave that came to a scary place like Coruscant and the only one who treated him with kindness and respect was Palpatine. Palps worked on Anakin's uneducated little mind for years. If he could fool Yoda and the council, then how is a small, lonely, misunderstood boy to resist? Palps took the time to get to know him and make him feel safe.

Even in Dark Lord, he's gentle and kind to Anakin. He might mock him a bit, but he makes it clear that he and Anakin are a team.

Luke didn't need that. He already had been raised free and was his own person when he met the Emperor, so his manipulations didn't work, and treating Luke like the common mindless Jedi of old didn't work. Luke was free and independent.

 

farrellg: But if Anakin was really unable to let go of his greed, how can the responsibility be his?



Anakin - is he responsible?
/LM

 

farrellg: But if Anakin was really unable to let go of his greed, how can the responsibility be his?

Perhaps I didn't phrase that statement well. I don't think that Anakin is incapable of ever letting go and following the Jedi Code, he simply hasn't learned to do so. We can sympathize with Anakin because he tried to do the right things at first, but I think everyone is responsible for the choices they make, even if its because of a lack of knowledge and maturity.

 

Ah, I see. I guess it's a combination of him not having learned and not wanting to let go of his greed.



Greed - it's wonderful
/LM

 

But he got that from genetics and the events happening around him, like Palpatine.

I know GL has said he wanted to show Star Wars was about choosing to follow your desiny or not, but if you look at it closer you see everything seems to be determined by fate/the Force.

I want to believe 100% in free will and choices, it would just be a lot easier if there was some evidence.

Can you find ANY in Star Wars?

 

Thats the beauty of Star Wars and life in general. You want to believe that we are 100% in control of our lives and destiny, but you dont know. When you look at life from a certain angle it seems predetermined by fate. And its a testament to GL's story telling abilities to convey that feeling of being completely in control and completely out of control throughout the saga.

 

It seems the debate is getting more to questioning if there is free will or predestination rather than the simple question of whether things were stacked poorly for anakin. It doesn't really matter if Lucas wanted the force to control everything or if anakin was subject to his own weaknesses. The answer to the real question of this thread is undeniably "Yes, things were unfair for anakin." But things were also unfair for Luke. Both of them had things stacked against them, but as the originator of the thread put it, anakin is definitely worse off throughout the saga than luke.

Ultimately, I agree that anakin started out in a worse place, and luke had everything slightly better. Anakin fell due to the need to decide between two equally valid factions in his mind, a gray zone in ethics. Luke was given the choice between good and evil and it was black and white. Anakin felt ostracized. Luke felt accepted. Anakin had a critical mentor. Luke had the same but by that time less critical teachers. So it would appear that anakin got the short end of the stick.

Yet it still came to a choice. Luke tried to kill the emperor in order to save his friends, anakin killed the jedi to save his wife. Pretty equal actions, only anakin had a whole bunch of people he killed.

In the end, anakin saved the universe despite his fall. He was only able to do that in his unique position of trust. Seems to me that his misfortunes could have been predestined, but he still could have chosen a different path. Ultimately, he made the correct choice by killing palpatine.

 

I agree.

 

I don't think he's saying that. But he might be positioning that as true within the "Star Wars" galaxy. But here's the thing: it doesn't matter. "Star Wars", like all good stories with a moral centre, is both a mirror to human behaviour and a wake-up call. If we can safely observe how other people go wrong through the veils of fiction and fantasy -- "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" -- then we might be able to condition ourselves into better people for the good of us all.

 

I think that it all comes down to the first loss of the two Skywalker's.

Anakin's first loss was his mother. He responded in a rather violent and cold hearted manner. Killing the Tuskens was not going to help Shmi. He decided to start that slow downward decent into Sithdom.

Luke's first loss was his Aunt and Uncle. He did not go back to Obi-Wan and ask to be a Jedi, vowing to take revenge on those whom were responsible. His Aunt and Uncle had died. Nothing would change that. He had nothing left and decided to go on to serve the galaxy as a Jedi Knight.

Whiny, non Jedi trained Luke was able to remain serene while his father, the chosen one, decided he needed to butcher a bunch of sandwomen and children that very well may not have known about Shmi at all.

Carnage