Anakin, Padme, Luke, and Leia - The Separation of the Skywalker Family

I think darth Vader knows he had a son. He puts 2 and 2 together (Luke's last name is the same as his) and figures out who his son is.

My question is if the JC wanted to hide Luke and Leia from the Emperor and Vader, why not choose a different last name for Luke like they did with Leia? Do the people od Tatooine ever put 2 and 2 together and realize that Luke is Anakin's son or at least a relative? Anakin was pretty popular there for a while racing Pods...

 

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My question is if the JC wanted to hide Luke and Leia from the Emperor and Vader, why not choose a different last name for Luke like they did with Leia?

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well... in real life, because at the point when ANH was being made, Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader and Princess Leia are not related in any way. it was in ESB that they all got linked and things got complicated.


this has always been one of the plot holes, and i think this is the point where we have to distance ourselves from the details and look at the bigger picture. it is easier to tell the story to the audience if Luke is simply named Skywalker and not bother with multiple last names. coming off from the PTs and going into ANH, its easier to get the audience to focus on Luke Skywalker as this will get the audience to think "ahh, now this is Anakin Skywalker's son, lets see what he's about". now with reagrds to the plot hole, an explanation within the story can be that Tatooine is such a far off place that the Empire (like the Republic) ignored it and just let the ganglords (Hutts) rule the planet. as for the people of Tatooine making a conection with Luke and Anakin, they probably did, but would just pass him off as a bit of a looser since Luke is a son of a Jedi and the jedi lost the war (this of course provided that the Tatooine folks didn't know that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader). any other way, i don't think the Tatooine people cared for that much since they're life still remained pretty miserable whoever holds the reins of power in the galaxy.

 

"How did Lucas make a critical error?"

He didn't leave out any hints in ANH that will tell us whether Vader already knew about Luke before the battle of Yavin and cutting out the dialogue only messed up the continuity because we will never understand how Vader would suddenly know that the rebel pilot who destroyed the death star is his son when Obi-wan flat out say that Luke(and Leia) were hidden from Anakin/Vader when they were born.

"He already changed his mind on one, so why not the other?"

Had Lucas left in the dialogue, we will understand whether or not Anakin knew about Luke and/or Leia before the OT.

"if we see in Episode III that Vader knows about his son, then it would be more obvious when ESB rolls around that Vader made a logical conclusion after ANH."

But there are 2 questions that will still remain like.......1)Why didn't Anakin/Vader come for Luke sooner? If he knew about him then he would be seaching the galaxy for him. Plus, if he wanted to get rid of the Emperor right away, the best thing he would do is train Luke in secret so he would be strong and old enough to kill the Emperor so Vader can become the Sith master and make Luke his apprentice.

2) Why would he leave Luke in the care of Obi-wan Kenobi-the person who put him in the respirator suit? After all the pain and suffering Anakin went through after his battle with Obi-wan, he would never let him come near Luke.

 

It looks like everyone is forgetting an important part of the OT.

In ANH, just before Obi-Wan is slain, he looks from Luke to Vader with that special glance, sort of an "If only you knew." Now, perhaps Vader caught this glance, confirming his doubts, suspicions, and rumors that he had a son.

In Empire, the first time we encounter the Emperor is when he is talking of Luke to Vader.

Emperor: "I sense a great disturbance in the Force."

Vader: "I have felt it."

Emperor: "We have a new enemy. Luke Skywalker."

Now here could be the first time Vader has solid evidence that he has a son, or maybe his suspicions are answered. Maybe he confided in his Emperor after his encounter with Obi-Wan (between ANH and TESB). He could be caught off guard and wants to try to turn Luke (to overthrow the Emperor)instead of kill him.

Also, the fact that the Emperor can sense the power of Luke only now provides weight to the idea that people strong in the Force can only be sensed when they use the Force, perhaps confirming why Vader did not also detect Luke's strong presence on the deathstar until he was behind him in his Tie Fighter and Luke was using the Force (or he could have just been obsessed with Obi-Wan...).

You notice Qui-Gon does not immediatly sense Anakin's strong power in the Force until he begins to exert this power.

 

I agree with Darth Scully, that we're trying to explain away continuity errors created by the changing story and the fact that when GL made ANH, he could only dream of maybe being able to finish his story arc. It's really unclear as to the direction he'll take things will go to close the gaps, and which gaps he'll close, since they weren't intended to be there in the first place.

That being said, I think the assumptions behind your two questions, PMT99, may be wrong....Let's talk about it from a different point of view...

If Vader knew about Luke, why wouldn't he come after him sooner? Because its possible that not only Vader knew about Luke, but Palps probably knew also, and used that to hold Vader in check. Palps now threatens Anakin by acknowledging what Luke might become if he happens to be trained or influenced by Vader, and threatens that he'll kill the kid if Vader gets out of line or every tries anything funny with him. This is just another way that Palps can keep control over Vader. Vader doesn't want to see Luke dead, since he has aspirations of ruling with Luke and overthrowing Palps, and Luke is his last link to Padme (or so he thinks), so he waits. He also knows, from history, that those trained late can be swayed to the dark side with relative ease if the power is played against their emotions and anger - being his Dad might make him think he has an hook here. (Certainly Luke showed he had a hook as the son to be able to swing Vader back from the dark side)

Why would Vader leave him in the care of Obi Wan? Well, Luke wasn't actually left in the care of Obi Wan, he was raised by his step brother Owen. Did Anakin know that Obi Wan was on Tatooine? If he didn't, the original concern is moot. If he did know, Vader also knows that Obi Wan trained him, took care of him for a number, and is the "grandfather" of the kid. Also he knows that Owen is actually taking care of him. I think he'd feel secure that nothing bad would happen to Luke. He'd probably also think it was a good thing, since Obi Wan might start to train him at some point, creating the opening for him to bring Luke to the dark side. Fate eventually lead to that happening...

 

thanks tgmb. but in your theory you mentioned that Palpy knew about Luke. then why didn't the Emperor do anything to hunt the boy down? remember in ROTJ, Obi-Wan said: "The Emperor knew, as I do, that if Anakin were to have any offsprings, they would be a threat to him...". judging from Palpy's nature, he'd sure do something quickly about a cetain threat to himself, he would have the boy hunted down and killed ASAP. perhaps this is exactly what he does-- he sends Vader to kill off Luke, and Vader succeeds--almost.

 

Darth Scully - Palps trades off the threat that Luke creates for him against the hold it gives him over Vader and his own "charm".

Palps is a manipulator of events par excellance. The only way Luke becomes a threat is if he's trained. Palps is a cocky guy, and thinks he's able to see into the future clearly. He knows exactly where Luke is. Palps also has a lot of ways of having Luke killed if he wants. Palps assumes the only way Luke will get trained is for Vader to do it, and that he'll know if the training starts and be able to act before Luke can become too dangerous to him.

The assumption here is that Vader does not want to see Luke killed. Palps can then use Luke against Vader two ways: directly, by telling Vader that if he ever trains Luke, Luke is dead. Indirectly, by Vader also knowing that Palps can have Luke killed anytime he wants, if Vader does not please him.

Palps also can believe that even if all of this doesn't hold, he might be able to convince Luke to side with him, since quick Jedi training of older students makes one vulnerable to the dark side. He had been successful with Anakin, and Dooku for that matter.

With Palps ego, and all of the safeguards in place, it would seem like a low and worthwhile risk to take to gain control of Vader...

He just didn't recognize Obi Wan and Yoda were available to train Luke, did not forsee the droids arrival on Tatooine to start events happening too fast for him to respond. Even then, he still had a fall back position, but he certainly didn't forsee Luke bringing Vader back to the light. That was his most spectaular oversight, misunderstanding, and mistake.

 

This is all very interesting - I've wondered it all myself, and you guys have some very good possible answers.

I just have one little contribution. I once read a fanfic where Luke and Leia find out the reason why Luke is put on Tatooine with the Skywalker last name instead of being hidden better, like Leia is. The reason is so that if Vader ever discovers he has a son, he'll never think to look for a daughter, too. It wasn't that they wanted Luke to be found - that's why, just in case he is, Obi-Wan is there to protect him or at least keep Vader away. But it's a contingency plan in case they can't avoid Vader finding out he has one child. This was not my idea, but it's the best one I've heard, and it works fairly well.

It also may be that Tatooine is the last place in the galaxy Anakin would ever return to after Shmi dies there. This wouldn't prevent Imperial operatives from running into Luke on Tatooine, but they wouldn't know the name Skywalker or the significance of his being with Owen and Beru. So it might be a better hiding place than you'd initially suppose from what we know in the OT.

But still, nothing quite explains to me why they keep the name Skywalker for Luke. I mean, this is why it would be the end of the world if he applied to the academy - I mean, if Luke ever does anything that causes his name to be known, and Skywalker isn't a common surname, all Palp has to have done is had the foresight to tell some of the higher-ups in various wings of the Empire, "Oh, by the way, if you ever see the name Skywalker, just let me know, 'kay?" Surely Palp has enough brains to realize that there's a possibility Anakin and Padme had a child, and he seems like the type to take every precaution.

 

True enough,

Or perhaps Luke kept his last name because somebody (Obi or Yoda) knew it was his destiny to find his father, so why bother to change it? You can't change your destiny right?

Which brings up another interesting point, this is the exact same thing Vader reminded Luke, "It is your destiny."

"Your destiny lies with me, Skywalker. Obi-Wan knew this to be true."

So many possibilities but I've enjoyed reading some great speculation thusfar. I'm starting to believe Anakin always knew...

 

I'm thinking Anakin did know Padme was pregnant. But then Padme finds out that Anakin turned to the dark side and was advised not to let him know, to hide her children for their safety. The logic in where the kids went, I think, was this-
1) If one was found, at least the other would be somewhere else.
2) Perhaps Padme wanted to leave her kids with some hint about their parent's past (or it just worked out that way). Luke went to Tatooine-that's where Anakin grew up from the beginning. Obi-Wan stayed around, dropping Luke off at his brother's since it would be too dangerous for him to be in direct contact with Luke, but at least he'd be around in case Anakin came looking for him.
3) Padme grew up in the republic, on a green planet. I supose she held onto Leia longer, and she ends up dying, to be left with the alliance.

It's really hard on trying to put everything together, isn't it? lol

 

One thing that always made me wonder about the PT was why the twins were split up from each other at all.

Whether Padme dies in Ep 3 or not why split up the twins? Why not train them from youth like other Jedi? If Palp and/or Vader knew of one or both children why name one blatantly Skywalker and "hide" him in plain sight on Tatooine while the other got a galaxy far far away's version of the witness protection program?

To me its not that important who knows about the kids and who doesn't...whatever...I just want to know why they were split up and put where they were put.

I liked one of the theories on here about how Luke was sort of used as bait out in the open while Leia was hidden more secretly so that not to give any indication to the Empire/Vader that there's another threat to look for.

Reading these posts and theories, I came up with my own hair-brained idea. I always wanted the PT to have some big HUGE revelation to make the audience go WHOA! yet at the same time not gimmicky.

Humor me. What if there weren't twins, but triplets. Anakin could totally know about Padme being pregnant as well as Palpatine. Also this would give precedence to why Obi-wan would tell Luke in 'Jedi' that the Emperor "knew as well as he that if Anakin were to ever have any offspring...yadda yadda..." Perhaps when Padme gave birth it was a big surprise that there were three not one. Also maybe the three were to be trained as Jedi (not necessarily because of any Clone War or secret plan...but just because of the simple fact that the 'Force is strong within the Skywalker family.' Maybe they even started out as toddlers on Dagobah with other refugee Jedi. Palpatine being totally in the loop of everything maybe attempts to kill "baby Skywalker" feeling threatened...or maybe violence and danger occur and one Skywalker falls victim by crossfire or something. Whatever the case, Padme has a reason to split up the children...they're in too much danger being around her ass. Leave it to the Jedi to come up with their own plans for the remaining TWINS.

I think a triplet could add some more weight to an angry Vader, don't you? Sure Padme might die (probably)...I'm just rootin for a "revelation" scene.

Maybe at the end of Ep 3 Obi-wan thinks that the refugee Jedi on Dagobah were all PURGED. There's never any real indication that Obi-wan knows Yoda's still around until after he dies. Maybe during this purge on Dagobah, a strong little master of the force crawls out from the rubble as the only survivor and can't do a thing on a deserted planet but sit around and wait.

 

That's all good stuff, TanWessell. And I agree - why they split them up as they did has always bugged me. My guess is there may just be another prophecy to explain it (if so, I hope it's at least a surprising and fascinating prophecy, or else it would be dull). My worst fear is that Luke is way more midi-chlorian filled than Leia, so they're like, "Okay, Padme can take the useless girl somewhere pleasant, and Obi-Wan will take the galaxy's last hope somewhere ironic and fail to train him for 20 years." I dunno, it just wouldn't make much sense to me.

I do like the Luke as bait idea. My writing partner and I have another idea that I can't disclose - it's a secret we're putting into our rewrite of the EU.

There is one other possibility I like, though: maybe it's not a choice, or at least not the one they planned on. Maybe the get split up during an attack, each of them carrying one twin, and they're not able to regroup.

But what I can't figure out is why, even if Obi-Wan is stuck on Tatooine forever, why doesn't he raise Luke himself? There's got to be some reason he lets Anakin's step-relatives do it instead. There's got to come a point where he thinks, "Hmm, I could nab Luke out of their house tonight and take him to Dagobah or train him here, but I don't think I will, because ___________".

I dunno.

 

on the reason of Luke and Leia's separation:

i was thinking, can this be a case of not putting your eggs all in one basket? i mean if the Skywalker kids are the only hope, and i was Kenobi or Yoda, i'd sure try to optimize their chances of survival, and the best way to do this is to separate them. so that, in case something happens to one in this place, the other can survive and go on. they probably chose Luke to be trained because (and i'd probably be accused of condoning sexist thinking but...) he's a guy, he's the son, don't they usually train sons for battle first before daughters? i don't know if this is simply because he was first born (because truthfully i think Leia was first born but i digress...). i don't think its because Luke had the force stronger in him (they're twins, they're supposed to have it the same). anyway, maybe it was just chance. we'll see how this plays in ep3.

 

After watching RotJ tonight, and remembering GL's penchant for repeating things, I'm now thinking that we're going to see the same three way battle as we did in RotJ, but in this case, it'll be Palps as himself, Dooku for Vader, Anakin for Luke, and the big driver for the battle will be Padme instead of Luke's friends. Palps will goad Anakin threating something with Padme, Anakin would try to strike him down, Dooku blocks him, they fight, Dooku ups the ante by threatening the kid, Anakin fights like a wildman and instead of holding back at the end of the fight, he slays Dooku.

I haven't thought it through enough to figure out the story to lead up to this, but think of what it will do next time you see RotJ after seeing that, especially when Luke stops and refuses to kill Vader.

One other thing - I'm wondering if Sith Masters are able to control the minds of their assistants, similiar to what Jedi can do with people with weak minds - may use of the dark side makes a mind weak in a certain way. It would explain why every assitant, from Maul onward, becomes so docile and controlled when they're in his presence. In RoTJ, it's clear early on that Palps wants Luke, which implies that Vader will have to be gone due to the Sith number rule, yet Vader still prevents Luke from striking down Palps. It seems that if Sith are as bloodthirsty and ruthless towards each other as we expect, he'd have let Luke strike Palps down and be done with him...

 

Is it true they may be putting in Padme scenes into ROTJ?

I wouldn't be that opposed to it if done right. But Lucas has been known to screw up wacky edits.

 

Well if you know about George Lucas' original plot for the movie Anakin knows about Padme being pregnant. Then he goes on a mission to retreive the Kaiburr crystal (for the emperor I might add) and then Obi-Wan shows up to ask him what he is doing. They get into a fight and Anakin falls into lava. Then the Emperor saves him and gives him his Vader outfit. Then Anakin asks to see his wife. The Emperor tells him that the Jedi counsel murdered his wife, and because Anakin cannot let things go (RT: I will even learn to stop people from dying) he thinks that he has failed as a husband and that he has no more reason to protect the peace of the galaxy so he goes and then helps the Emperor destroy all of the Jedi Knights. (except Obi-Wan and Yoda) So then Obi-Wan changes his name to ben to hide his identity as a Jedi from Vader, then tells Padme that his husband is now an evil cyborg. Then Padme takes Leia to Alderan and Ben takes Luke to live with the Owens. And that is why Leia remembers Padme as "beautiful, yet sad." And so Vader just believed that his wife that was pregnant died and so did her kids.

 

Jedi_Master_Anakin, very interesting. Where did you get that?

 

aye,

where is that from?

 

The only early draft I'm aware of is completely bogus. In it, Palpatine knows "Lady Arcadia" is pregnant, but Anakin/Vader does not. I'm not aware of any genuine early drafts for Ep 3.

This one is probably right about a few things, but it's so silly it's got the Kaiburr crystal, Anakin being resurrected from the dead by Palpatine's Sith priests..... it's just kinda silly.

 

"It's possible that not only Vader knew about Luke, but Palps probably knew also, and used that to hold Vader in check."

If Palps already knew about Luke, why would he consider him a NEW enemy like he just found out him like Vader has? The Emperor would have Luke hunted down and destroyed immediately without Vader knowing had he knew about him since Episode 3, hence his insistence that "The son of Skywalker must NOT become a jedi".

The primary reason why Luke and Leia were hidden from the Emperor and Vader in the first place was to keep them "safely anomonous" knowing that the Emperor considers them a threat.

Also, Vader would never had waited 20+ years to become a responsible father if he knew about Luke. He would not only have searched for him right away, but he would also had used Luke to kill the Emperor and take his place as Sith master so he can train Luke and take over the galaxy together.

 

Anakin will know that Padmé is pregnant. While Padmé is pregnant, Yoda or Mace Windu will sense that Anakin is heading for and will go over to the dark side, and tell Padmé. When twins are born, she will see the chance to protect one of them from Anakin when he goes over to the dark side. Since Anakin knew that she was pregnant, she can't hide them both. So she chooses to hide Leia from him, and he only knows about Luke. Anakin tells Obi-Wan to give Luke his lightsaber when he is old enough. Then Padmé goes into hiding and he thinks she is dead (Like DarthSon said). So he turns to Palpatine who takes him under his wing and influences him, saying that he should get revenge on the people who killed his mother and those who killed his wife (Palpatine leads him to believe that Padmé was murdered). Palpatine builds the anger and hatred inside of Anakin, ultimately turning him to the dark side. When Padmé hears of this, her friend Palpatine taking her husband away from her, her grief is overwhelming and she dies soon after, sending Leia to become Bail Organa's foster daughter. Even though she knew Anakin would eventually go over to the dark side, she wasn't prepared for the weight of it, especially having Palpatine turn him over.
Anakin never went after Luke until later because he didn't view Luke as a threat until he knew Luke was part of the rebellion. He didn't see Luke as an asset until he learned of his strength. Anakin merely viewed his son as something that he never needed to see or care about, until he thought having Luke on the dark side would help the Sith, or Luke becoming a Jedi would destroy them.

 

One thing that everyone seems to be forgetting is that Anakin will have turned to the dark side well before he becomes Darth Vader. Remember that OB1 fought with Anakin in E3 to turn him back to the light side, and it was that fight that made him Darth Vader, not that he was Vader then he fought OB1. Make sense?

I am prety sure that Vader knew he had a child, maybe even that he had a son, but that would be the limit of his knowlege. Anakin wanted his child to have his saber, so...

OB1 very well may have known about Liea. He just never saw her has an option of overthrowing the Empire until Yoda said there is another they could place their hopes in.

Anakin would probably be able to feel through the force if Padme was truly dead or not. So i cant buy any theory where Anakin believes her dead, and she is not.

Maybe OB1, Yoda and baby Luke go to Dagobah on OB1's way to Tatoieen, while Liea and Padme, with a few other jedi, are elsewhere. Or maybe the twins are born there, who knows?

Actually, i bet that Palpatine knew that there were twins, maybe even knew exactly where they were, but in hopes of getting them under his wing later on, let them live. It is possible, but maybe not likely.

I think Anakin wanted to join Palp's in the dark side, and not have Palpatine extorting Anakin to keep him as an ally. It would make Anakin so much weaker IMHO if he was blackmailed into helping Palpatine.

Well, if Dark Anakin and OB1 duel, and Anakin losses, then it is safe to bet that OB1 is still alive, so it is not that big of a deal if Anakin knows OB1 is still alive.

Maybe Anakin/Vader knew he had children, and had been searching for them for 18 years, but never thought to look in the obvious spot? Maybe he wanted OB1 to train Luke enough so that he would be strong, then try to get him to join him. Vader never trained anyone, and maybe thinks he cant train anyone. So he waits till OB1 gets the boy up to snuff?

Actually, i bet that Anakin thinks or believes his children are dead, but does not know 100% sure. Given that Anakin could not sence Liea in the cell on the DS in ANH, it is safe to assume he could not sense them like he probably could Padme(he never lived with them).

Um, would Padme still love Anakin even if he went to the dark side? I think she would, given how she took the whole Tuscan Slaughter thing. Given that, it would folow that she does not want to be seperated from Anakin, but is forced, maybe the jedi take her away or something, against her emotions.

Sorry for the long posts. I just open up a window and respond as i read. Just throwing ideas out there to chew on.

 

Yeah I think Padme would stick by Anakin to a point.

I'm sure she wasn't too happening with the full body black armor.

I wonder what turns Padme away from Anakin, specifically?

 

This was said by DarthVegas

"His kids must've been born after Anakin became Darth Vader,"

Actually, I would say the kids have to be born after Anakin goes to the dark side, which is not the same thing as becomming Vader. Personally I think that Padme will be in hiding for other reasons (she will be vurnerable) and when OB1 reports that his padwan fliped out, they will be like "Well thank god we hid her."

It would be intresting if Padme dies and Anakin thinks she dies BEFORE giving birth. So from his point of view, he lost not only his wife, but child/children as well.

The whole "you father wanted you to have this" may be taken more general. If Anakin knew his wife wsa pregnate, he may say to OB1 that should something happen to Anakin, please recover and give my saber to my child when they are old enough. Then after the duel, OB1 retrieves the saber and....

WHY would padme not want Anakin to know? If Padme didnt love him enough to trust him, then some of the disgruntled fan boys who think they didnt love each other in AOTC will be proven right. I mean, it is almost a fact that she will be pregnate at the begining of the film, and they will be swapping letters and holo-vids back and forth. We are meant to believe that Padme will love Anakin no matter what. He could level Naboo, and she may still feel love for him. So why would she hide the fact he will have a son and/or daughter from him unless she had no choice?

I dont understand how OB1's line in the swamp (the emporoer knew as i did). If Anakin did have any kids, they would be a threat. Well, Anakin did have kids, it does not rule it out that they did not know IMHO.

And just a few tid bits from me.

In ANH, maybe Vader suspected that that guy in the white tunic was his son, but he had to keep his mouth shut.

Vader is walking a tightrope in the OT. If he tries to hard to look for his child/children, the Emporer will be on his back about his feeling being unclear. And if the Emporer thinks that something holds Vader's loyalty other than him, then he will be gotten rid of.

If Padme dies, Anakin will know it. He obviously wont be there to help her, and since the JEdi are probably keeping her from him, and that he believes he could save her from anything, he will blame the jedi on her death.