Ahsoka Anakin Skywalker (spoilers)

Why it won’t be called heir to the empire? I just think it’s to on the nose. And this will be the loosest adaption of a book ever.

 

If you follow the metaphor, killing Anakin would mean killing herself.

EDIT: And Anakin is likely either a Force ghost or the Force manifested, so can't be killed.

 

So killing anakin would be killing herself and anakin killing her would be her dying?

So Anakin was pressuring her to die with only one way out, and that was to resist the push to strike him down. Although that also requires her to win and not lose.

 

Yes, he was pressuring her to live. To let go of guilt and anger and to embrace her full destiny as he has.

Ahsoka was going to die from her loss to Baylan, but Anakin/the Force intervened to help her overcome the psychological block she's developed. A lot of this has to do with Ahsoka's perception of her legacy -- what does it mean to be the apprentice of Darth Vader?

Well, Darth Vader was more than just an evil Sith Lord. And so is Ahsoka.

Ahsoka needed to realize that "fighting" doesn't always mean war and violence; sometimes it means living through one's past traumas and changing into something new.

However, if she had given into to her desire to give up, to run away from the past by giving into the dark path of anger and kill "Vader," i.e. her guilt and failure, she would have died. That is, the Force would have let things run their natural course: she would have drowned as a result of her loss to Baylan.

 

Yup. She had to transcend her past and rise anew. The key setup for this was in her first interaction with Sabine, where the latter learns that Ahsoka is still living on the ship she was living on during the war, and not living her own life, but simply “going where he’s needed.” She was stuck in her past - just as she gets stuck in her past in the WBW experience, and not living in the present. And she had to get unstuck. To live in the present.

This is quite basic Buddhist stuff, in fact. I always encourage Star Wars fans to get a decent handle on the fundamentals of Buddhism as it can really help one grasp this sort of thing. Especially with grasping Filoni’s approach to the material, as he likes to do deep dives on it. Literally, this time.

 

Going where “she’s needed,” I meant to say.

 

So many viewers overlook this key piece of information, but Filoni has been hitting us all in the heads with details like this from the first episode. Ahsoka is not in a great place when we see her at the beginning of the show.

And you also highlight for me the important subtext here I had missed -- living in the same ship she was living in during the war.

This tells us that she's also stuck emotionally and psychologically in the past, that she hasn't moved on from the war and war mode, and also that it's having a toll on her.

Others have pointed out another key detail that's easy to not consider the significance of -- Ahsoka admits to basically torturing or forcing Morgan Elsbeth to give her the information she wants. That's definitely a sign that she's beginning to use the darkside in order to win.

That alone should have been a huge alarm bell to most viewers, but I think many just enjoy the fact that Ahsoka is being more aggressive.

 

Indeed. I was struck by that casual and flippant reference to having tortured Morgan. And predictably, when watching reaction videos of the episode (a guilty pleasure/ torture of mine on occasion), everyone without fail thought it was cool and badass that she said that. And we wonder why democracy is in trouble.

 

Great to see Hayden Christensen back as Anakin Skywalker in big role this time. He was not mutch in Kenobi, so loved seeing him more here. First post ROTJ Force Ghost Anakin. I think he is in between Mortis god and Force ghost.

 

Nothing. He would just have been disappointed in Ahsoka.

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Like Hercules?

 

He would’ve said “incorrect.”

 

I posted this in the Ahsoka: Episode 5 thread, but seeing as that one will probably get buried eventually, I'll post it here as well. Mods can remove this (or the other one) if this "double post" is not acceptable.

Behind the scenes of Anakin's return in the Ahsoka show:

 

Hayden had an almost James Dean quality to him in this episode. He really was fantastic. One of those performances that becomes an instant classic.

 

That's kind of what GL said about Hayden in one of the AOTC docs - that he had a James Dean sort of sullen edge to him. I think that edge is what attracted me as a viewer to the character in the first place. I instantly felt that yes, this is the kind of person Anakin is meant to be. This is right. And Hayden naturally embodied that.

How neat, by the way, that Anakin just stopped someone he cared about from dying...

 

I personally like the theory that Anakin now has the powers that the Father had on Mortis. He was, after all, meant to take the Father's place. Thus, he can be a sort of Heimdall in the World Between Worlds and exist beyond time and space. That would make sense. The Father uses both the dark side and the light side almost equally. Anakin as a Force ghost could be similar. Plus, ya know, if memory served, he spent almost half of his life as Anakin and the other half as Vader. Besides, his motivation to save Luke from Palpatine was very dual in nature, as he desired to both sacrifice himself in order for his son to live and to finally attain revenge against Sidious and prove himself superior.

If anything, Anakin ended his life either as a Grey Jedi or a Light Sith. I prefer to call him the former. But that's just me.

Yes, Lulu and Bor Mullet. Hayden does have more of a Dean-esque sullenness to him. That analogy is effin' perfect. Both Lanter and Christensen capture interesting aspects of Anakin's personality. Christensen is good at portraying the insecurity, the sadness, the youthfulness, the trauma, and the hatred. Lanter is good at portraying the amiable and brotherly traits but also the envious, rageful, and other adult parts. But Christensen just showed that he could portray a more likable side to Anakin in this show. He didn't get to do that as much in the prequels.

 

Think that's the meaning of bringing balance to the force. Not destroying the Sith once and for all or other darkside cults. The Jedi were wrong and simply misinterpreted the prophecy this way.

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Totally agree.

The Jedi (especially in their forced celibate, baby-"recruiting" version of the Order) were wrong about many things. That's why I think that the Jedi in the EU made the right decision under Luke's leadership to go back to allowing members to marry and to discard the whole forced-recruitment-of-infants thing.

I mean, just look at the bad effect that not being allowed to marry Padme Amidala publicly had on Anakin. Besides, if Padme had been around Anakin more to, ya know, give him advice, and that would have been better for his mental health. She was older than him.

 

No, the Jedi were right.

I like the Heimdall analogy, though! I don't know if Dave envisions Anakin as constantly watching over everyone in the universe and functioning as some sort of gatekeeper/companion when they pass away, but it would be pretty cool.

 

I didn’t get that message from the PT though. My understanding is that growing deeply attached to Padme, and marrying her, is what had the negative effect on him. Not the prohibition. There is nothing in AoTC or RoTS that tells me Anakin wouldn’t have sold his soul to the devil to save his wife if the Jedi had previously sanctioned his marriage. He would’ve still wanted to save her life. And so he likely would’ve made the deal with Palpatine anyway.

The fault was his, just as it was Sabine’s in Ahsoka. Selling out humanity for an individual attachment. No institution is responsible for those decisions.

 

Watched the episode again and I really liked the fact that they were portraying Vader as he would have been had he not been almost killed by Obi Wan. The bits where hes flickering between Vader in the suit and able bodied Anakin yet retaining some of the Vader cadence was genius. As was his sudden change from Vader to Anakin when Ashoka passed the test. This was so well done. My question is, was this on purpose from Anakin? Or is he in a situation where he can't control the dark side of him coming out in TWBW?

 

He's in complete control. It was just a test for Ahsoka.

 

Will we see a clone of Anakin in Filoni's upcoming movie?

 

With respect, I'm gonna go with a firm "nope" on that one.

Force Ghost? Interactive memory? Flashback? Caretaker of the World Between Worlds? Sure, absolutely. In fact I'd almost guarantee it... but a clone? That'd be a step too far, I reckon. That, and it wouldn't make much sense; the ST-era cloners (Gideon, Palpatine) are obsessed with prolonging their own lives, so why would they want a clone of Anakin? What use would he be? Especially to Palpatine, who wants to eradicate the Skywalker bloodline, not bolster it.

 

I can't see it, what would a cloned Anakin bring to the story other than having an extremely powerful and now unbeatable character who this time wouldn't be flawed or weakened by his attachment to his mother and Padme.