Anakin Skywalker/Vaders Political Views of Government

Could not find a thread on this topic.

We learn alot from Anakin in ATOC of his political leanings at a young age.

He is for sure a right-wing hawk, if he was American he would be a Republican for sure.

If he was in Germany during WWII he would be right at home in that type of government, strong and if need be brutal leadership.

His talk with Padme on Naboo reveal alot.
He feels democracy at this point does not work well in the galaxy. And he is right because Sidious is behind the scenes making sure the democratic process is corrupted.

For example that justice is not happening in TPM the Queen of Naboo tells the senate that her planet has been invaded and they say they need a commitee to be set up, it's a joke the Jedi and Queen were there and they witnessed the invasion there word should be good enough-democracy didn't work.

In ATOC we learn Nute Gunray gets off 4 times from the galatic sumpreme court- no justice

The Jedi are trained not to trust politians as well. Why? There political morals must be questionable.

Also Palpatine must be influencing the formation of Anakin political viewpoints at an impressionable age.

Vader comes to believe that conflict is destructive to the Galaxy and wants it to end, with Palpatine gone-but now with him running the show, still a dark oppresive government but with Luke at his side.

Clearly Anakin/Vader does not believe in democracy because in his lifetime it never worked. He believes in a strong King/Emperour style of rule backed up with a strong military that is the form of goavernment he favours. It is sad that this type of government usaully leads to dark actions because there is no accountability.

But we also note that corrupted democracy is a failure as well. This contributes to Anakins fall to the dark side as well to try a different form of government that he believes will work better anyways.

 

G.L. has said in articles (TIME or NEWSWEEK ? I forgot which one!) that he was into "benign dictatorships"... maybe he figured that Anakin/Vader would be into them too?

 

Well, Palpatine has been influencing Anakin since Anakin was about 9/10, so I can't really blame him for his views. He honestly does think he's doing the right thing when he aligns with Palpatine, and that what he does will bring peace to the Republic/Empire. :/

I do think it's very interesting that later in life he grows dissatisfied with Palpatine's way of doing things enough that he's willing to betray his father figure Palpatine so he can fix what he views as wrong in the universe. Idealing, he would be a benign despot.

IMO though, no form of government works completely, and whenever there is corruption (which is at the very least often), that form of government is in danger.

 

"If it works", comment to Padme tells us alot too.

 

"He is for sure a right-wing hawk, if he was American he would be a Republican for sure."

Ummm...no.

Anakin and Palpatine are totalitarians...meaning more or less rule by a dictator or by a select group of elites.

You can find totalitarians on both sides of the political spectrum.

 

Palpatine is a low-down socialist, commie snake.....like Stalin....

 

Palpatine is a low-down socialist, commie snake...

Actually, he was pretty much the opposite of a socialist or a communist.

 

"Actually, he was pretty much the opposite of a socialist or a communist."

No...Palpatine is a Totalitarian...he believes in absolute rule and will use any political arguments that get him to that point.

Compare the following statements:

1. "There is no interest in the common good."

2. "The bureaucrats are in charge now."

Those statements are in political conflict...those on the LEFT tend to believe in the common good, and specifically believe that government is the proper sphere in which to pursue the common good.

Those on the right tend to believe that this pursuit of the common good inevitably leads to a massive bureaucracy which tramples on the rights of individuals.

So he talks out of both sides of his mouth.

 

Why doesn't the Republic have a military of some kind to begin with? I say they were asking for this to happen. The Star Wars universe is filled with rogue states that aren't a part of the Republic, surely any reasonable government would want and NEED a military to guarantee it's survival. How this form of government prevailed for "thousands of years" without a military is beyond me.

I mean, can you imagine if the US and all its allies had no military? Having an army is a basic tenant of government. Without a military, a government has no real way to enforce laws. Throughout history, every major civillization has had armies.

And don't tell me the Jedi could have kept the peace all those years, how many are there? 40? 50? That would be like asking 50 ninjas to protect the US during the Cold War.

 

Interesting thoughts...although do we know of any serious external threats to the Republic? Any other nation-galaxies that can rival them for universal power?

 

BLUEJEDI3:
He is for sure a right-wing hawk, if he was American he would be a Republican for sure.

I'm not sure about that. Republicans tend to favor smaller government and a minimum of government interaction with citizens, whereas Democrats want the government to solve all problems with the country's general welfare.

Both sides claim to avoid trampling rights, though the Republicans haven't exactly lived up to their promises, with the way they deal with terrorism and their treatment of homosexuals.

They do share one thing in common, though: They both support democracy. Hence, I don't think Anakin would join either. Like you said, he'd probably be more happy in the Nazi Party.

Miles Lodson:
No...Palpatine is a Totalitarian...he believes in absolute rule and will use any political arguments that get him to that point.

Uh, as far as I know neither Communism nor socialism believes in totalitarian rule, IIRC. I'm not an expert on either, though.

The fact that every Communist nation has had a totalitarian regime probably stems from the fact that the regimes have had the support of the majority of the people, and thus there's no one stopping the Communist leaders from satisfying their personal desires for power.

But I think a nation can be Communist and a democracy. Communism mainly refers to the economy. Same with socialism. And many European democracies are socialist as well.

Interesting thoughts...although do we know of any serious external threats to the Republic? Any other nation-galaxies that can rival them for universal power?

Well, I don't know much about the Old Republic, but I do know that they were constantly plagued by the Sith.

Levi: I think the reason why the OR avoided having a standing national army was because they wanted to project themselves as a pacifist federation. The Jedi were "keepers of the peace, not soldiers".

The various planets that made up the Republic had their own local militias, making a permanent national army unnecessary. Plus, they probably feared that the army would be used to oppress them.

But I do agree that the Republic should have had a permanent national army, under the firm control of the government.

Btw, usually the military isn't used for law enforcement. When you see someone speeding, you usually don't see a tank chasing after him.

 

"The fact that every Communist nation has had a totalitarian regime probably stems from the fact that the regimes have had the support of the majority of the people, and thus there's no one stopping the Communist leaders from satisfying their personal desires for power."

Majority support does not make a government immune from a charge of totalitarianism. A majority can trample the rights of a minority just as effective as a dictator can.

In any case, the millions of people murdered during Stalin's purges say all that need be said about communism...individuals have no rights under a communist regime, and that makes it totalitarian.

 

I think Vader happens to love totalitarian forms of government.

 

Miles Lodson:
Majority support does not make a government immune from a charge of totalitarianism. A majority can trample the rights of a minority just as effective as a dictator can.

Of course it can. I'm just saying that Communist governments usually rise from the ashes of unpopular ones, and thus, they have so much support that they can gain absolute power WITH public support. Kinda like Emperor Napoleon I.

In any case, the millions of people murdered during Stalin's purges say all that need be said about communism...individuals have no rights under a communist regime, and that makes it totalitarian.

Actually, totalitarian means that the government controls every aspect of citizens' lives, private and public. While that can easily be linked with lack of official rights, it really doesn't have much to do with Communism. The abuses suffered by people living in Communist totalitarian regimes were because the regimes were totalitarian, not because they were Communist.

 

"totalitarian means that the government controls every aspect of citizens' lives, private and public."

And that means communism is totalitarian. Individuals have NO RIGHTS in a communist regime.

 

Those words "then they should be made to" sounded like he had made his mind up about his true views on the system. In ESB he said something to Luke about bringing order to the galaxy. We should know where he stands on the political front.

 

<<the Republicans haven't exactly lived up to their promises, with the way they deal with terrorism and their treatment of homosexuals.>>

Ohhhh....you must be a democrat.... dealing with terrorism?.....they do quite well.....fewer negotiations with terrorists the better, you have to go get them...if they don't surrender, then you have no choice but to kill them....they are a menace to freedom-loving people everywhere and a cancer on their own people .....their reasons for attacking us are THEIR problems, not ours.
Treatment of homosexuals? What does that have to do with anything? You can be tolerant of others' abnormal lifestyles, but that doesn't mean that you have to accept & condone their behavior....you can still love people without affirming any lifestyle they choose.......there is a big difference in the meaning of the words "tolerance" and "acceptance".

 

Let's go back to discussing Anakin's political views, and not real-life politics. Thanks.

 

<<Let's go back to discussing Anakin's political views, and not real-life politics. Thanks>>

You are correct, sir....

 

Darth Sprocket and Miles Lodson: Mind continuing our discussions via PM?

To all: I'm really sorry that my posts are always so bold. I wish I could control it, but the only way to do it is to not bold first words in posts, and I need to, so....