PT Anakin's Characterization in the Prequels vs TCW

I just wanted to begin by saying that although I disagree with some of the points you made, we nonetheless share the desire to appreciate the good parts of TCW, and I actually think that our opinions have more in common than this reply may make it seem.

As I mentioned to MissAlyssa (I'll just repeat the part of my post above), I'm not sure that being a different format with a different approach to storytelling excuses that many problems with TCW, though - the 2003 Clone Wars was also a different format with a different approach to storytelling, but the characters feel much closer to their film versions.

I'd have to say that this is the worst possible justification I could think of for assigning Anakin a Padawan. As an educator, I would say that the main concern when pairing a student with a mentor is whether or not the mentor possesses qualities that could benefit the student, and if so, a secondary concern would be whether or not the mentor would be willing to advise this student. The benefit to the mentor would come behind these other concerns. That is, the benefit to Ahsoka should have been the main concern, and I don't believe it's addressed why it is felt that Anakin would be a leading choice of mentor for Ahsoka.

I'll quote Obi-Wan's words from Clones, because I'm not convinced that the war and the advent of General Grevious would change this opinion: "I am concerned for my Padawan. He is not ready to be given this assignment on his own yet. ... But he still has much to learn, Master." Anakin also says that the reason why Obi-Wan thinks Anakin to be unready for the trials is because he feels that Anakin is too unpredictable. Obi-Wan's concerns fundamentally conflict with the responsibilities that would come with Knighthood. It is, on the contrary, the Council that is confident that Anakin's exceptional skills will suffice. Also, it doesn't really seem to make sense to have Anakin rushed into knighthood before maturing, yet showing him as relatively mature in the later parts of Clone Wars and in Sith - what's the point of showing him rushed into knighthood then? It's almost as though Clone Wars wanted to make the point that Anakin shouldn't have been kept as a Padawan and he would sort himself out once he became a Knight, which doesn't seem to make any sense...

For me, the issue isn't even "Should Ahsoka have been someone else's Padawan that Anakin befriended"; it's that that's the way it nevertheless feels to me despite the series explicitly saying otherwise. I'm asked to take as a key fact something that totally does not register for me.

I have some difficulty believing that Obi-Wan would have made such a sweeping statement if he had had romantic feelings for a politician before (and Satine had never done anything that would cause him to find her untrustworthy). I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about this.

Like I mentioned to MissAlyssa earlier, I do the same with Obi-Wan and Ewan McGregor, so I think we really share more in common than this reply may make it seem.

 

I agree with you. I had a hard time even beginning to watch TCW because it just didn't jive in my mind with the films. The Jedi don't trust Anakin and he wasn't a master so why give him a Padawan to train in the middle of a war? The attachment explanation still doesn't work for me especially considering the scene in ROTS when Anakin goes to Yoda for advice about his visions- nothing in that brings the existence of Ahsoka's arc to mind.

The voice of Matt Lanter is a distraction that I can't unhear. Anakin to me is Hayden so I have to try to imagine Hayden's voice over it when I do sit down and watch an episode here and there. It also grates when Lanter gets lauded as the correct Anakin because he isn't whiny blah blah. (But they LOVE Driver's temper tantrums and whiny "I want to be free of this pain" ) Lanter didn't have to convey any emotions through his appearance, didn't do any of the physical work Hayden did while getting the benefit of different writing and direction.

I remember an interview Lanter did where he claimed that the arc with Rush Clovis was one that was needed to display the character trait of Anakin's ability to lose his temper...….WTF? Pretty sure he lost his temper a couple times in AOTC- screaming at Zam "Tell us NOW! and when he wiped out the Tuskens…… it just feels like more bs to bash/discredit Hayden's version.

@MissAlyssa nailed it with #3 in her op. To me, Hayden's Anakin was aggressive, yes but confident in his abilities. Not this uber macho bro dude that he comes across as in the cartoon series. Hayden's portrayal had nuance. I connected with that version.

 

It's not necessarily that I found him overdone, it's just, with the tone of the show in mind, TCW Obi-wan feels more imitative of McGregor's Obi-Wan than a natural version of him and the humor is one example of that (it's the opposite of the fanbase's weird preoccupation with Obi-Wan's suffering). And as the show goes on, they try just a little too much make him an action hero in a manner that wasn't reflected in the films (or any of the novels I've read thus far).

Obi-Wan sometimes feels auxiliary in TCW with Anakin's dynamic with Ahsoka to contend with, like he really doesn't need to be around (I think the Mortis arc unintentionally highlights this). If we're comparing, Anakin's dynamic with Ahsoka is more compelling, where his and Obi-Wan's feels like went into stasis. It's listless, even by "a day in the life" standards. Obi-Wan feels like he has no true connections to the supporting characters in the show, or rather, none I gravitated to. Many of the characters who he's paired off with feel like special guest appearances instead of a greater part of the story (something I don't think the show did well in the end).

In Jude Watson's Jedi Apprentice/Quest series he at least had a cast of characters (Bant Eerin, Garen Muln, Siri Tachi, Reeft) that at least highlighted different aspects of his personality. There's nothing like that for him in TCW, so he feels underdeveloped in terms of dynamics that could've made him feel less "just there".

I'm not crazy about Obi-Wan romance plots in general, but my issues with Satine is that the character brings nothing to the conversation of the war and peace, or political inaction (mascaraing as altruism) vs. anarchy/direct action like Padme or other politician characters weren't already doing with flying colors. She doesn't challenge Obi-Wan's notions of politicians (again, something Padme does better), and he's largely fashioned with flabby arguments (that feel inorganic to his character) to make Satine look elevated and smart in her chosen political philosophy. Their dynamic is a hollow mirror of Anidala, lacking what makes that dynamic either distressing or illustrative of their personalities. I also don't want to be reminded of Moulin Rouge! every time I'm enjoying the show.

Fashioning Darth Maul into his arch nemesis instead of leaving him as the singular threat in TPM was a mistake, and one that turns Maul into a generic, robo-legged, accented villain, and Obi-Wan into your atypical broken-man-who-lost-a-lover. They should've left Maul dead and never made Obitine a thing.

If there had to be a 'romance' in the show why not just canonize the one from Watson's series with Siri Tachi (and not kill her)? It's better highlights Obi-Wan's commitment to the Order by their mere rejection of it, Anakin actually challenges him about it (IIRC), and it's not a constant reminder of a bad musical. Also, Siri means they have every opportunity to make Adi Gallia (her teacher) more than the "Token Black Female Jedi who gets killed by Darth Maul 2.0" (but maybe not since they didn't capitalize on Luminara and Bariss when it counted ah-la "The Wrong Jedi").

Again, this is stuff I try not to let bother me now. I'm being super critical or quibbly, but I do enjoy this show for all my reservations.

 

You've eloquently put in words what I had some difficulty pinning down was off about TCW Obi-Wan. You make an interesting point about "the fanbase's weird preoccupation with Obi-Wan's suffering" - I've always felt that Obi-Wan himself didn't find his situation that bad, partially because he's Obi-Wan, after all, but also because he has truly come to understand the Jedi teachings and is able to use them to let go of his suffering.

I understand completely - I don't like Satine as a politician (Padmé is far better), and the romance aspects were done better and deeper with Siri Tachi (my favourite example: Siri's last words to Obi-Wan, "Don't worry so much", were so much better than Satine's because she truly understood the kind of life that Obi-Wan had dedicated himself to). (Also agree that I don't want to be reminded of Moulin Rouge! every time I'm enjoying the show!) I have a suspicion that there was a reason why Lucasfilm didn't ever adapt EU in its television series, though, unfortunately, even if EU had some plots that were better than similar ones in TCW. (Though, whether or not by coincidence, the scene of Satine dying in Obi-Wan's arms is sufficiently similar to that of Siri that I can be tricked into thinking of her as Siri in that scene (perhaps because she isn't wearing the enormous headdress)...)

 

I remember reading 3 comics from Dark Horse that explored the darkness behind Anakin. The first dealt with the Battle of Jabiim were Anakin was forced to choose between evacuating his troops and a group of local pro-Republic Jabiim loyalists. He chooses his troops which causes the loyalist leader to threaten Anakin and Anakin subconsciously reacts to using Force Choke for the first time.

Later, he finds a wounded Jedi Master in a Medbay and uses Force Choke on her heart to help her survive by pumping her blood, but a Jedi Master forces him to stop, saying its too late. The Jedi then notes Anakin has a hard time accepting death.

Another story deals with Anakin angry at Jedi Master A'Sharad Hett, a Tusken Jedi no less, who tells Anakin to leave his dying Padawan. Anakin is upset when he is unable to save the Padawan and becomes angry at Hett for being uncaring. This also transforms into rage as Anakin lashes out at Hett physically, threatening to kill him for being a Tusken.

The final story dealt with Anakin and Obi-Wan leading an assault on a droid factory while a young female Jedi Knight is sent to infiltrate the droid factory by herself. The Jedi Knight becomes trapped, which causes Anakin to disobey his orders in order to rescue her. However, the Jedi Knight reminds him of his duty and he reluctantly pulls back. The factory explodes, killing her. Anakin is upset and Obi-Wan reminds him that she didn't die for nothing.

These stories did more to show Anakin's conflict and how the war affects him more than TCW did imo.

 

I believe both Anakin's portrayal in TCW and in the PT, for the most part, sit comfortably alongside each other. Of course Anakin in TCW is a more distilled version of the character. More overtly heroic and less complex than Hayden's portrayal in the PT (although I'm sure some will disagree), and as a consequence, probably more generic in that TWC Anakin can probably appeal more to the SW (or PT) neutral fan.

 

Well for me they work very well together. Lets look at the beginning of Ep III: The whole first act about rescuing Palps we experience the Anakin who he is in TCW. More heroic, relaxed, funny..."enjoying" the battle. Its after the vision about Padme and when he is not into battle, when he goes back to his behaviour and characteristics we know from Ep II.

For me it seems like Anakin is the way he is in TCW because of the Situation he is in: he is distracted from his fears and thoughts, he fights and flys, something he enjoys very much and his status as Knight helps him getting along with Kenobi much much better and their relationship grows very much. Its the stuff with Padme or his past when he goes back to his exsessive behaviour like the slave situation or the stuff Padme and Clovis.

So yeah...for me the character is one and its a good development from Ep I to II to TCW to Ep III.

PS: I'd wish the old 2003 - 2005 CW series would be canon only for the fact that we experience his knighthood in one of the best scenes of the whole show!

 

I'm about halfway through it and I appreciate how both Anakin and Obi Wan are being written for (and most of the characters). I also like how it truly feels like they are in a war.

The fighting is very stylized and a little over the top (for my tastes), but story-wise it's working for me. I have to bring up the scene when Anakin brings up Qui Gon, that felt so raw and real. I like how even Anakin was taken aback by his statement, instantly regretted it and Obi Wan diffused the situation. I could picture that scene being in AOTC. Thank you for sharing. I'm really enjoying this series!

 

I really like Mat Lucas a lot. Its a shame they didnt allow him back for TCW.

 

Why so?

I don't see or feel any contradiction.

As I said previously there was no point in Lucas trying to set-up anything that he knew he was going to do in TCW which started formal pre-production development after ROTS (and before that the 2003-2005).

Good point.

I would note that in TCW when Anakin is with Padme (which I don't think is that often) he seems the closest to his AOTC and ROTS self. Either those or other situations that take him to his core emotions as opposed to just having to being a Jedi Knight fighting in the Clone Wars.

As you says it's a distraction from looking into himself. ROTS makes the point that Anakin hasn't seen Padme for months at that point.

I think that comes from Lucas wanting to create that separation between the movies and animated versions.

Hence he didn't use HC for the voice and save for various instances didn't have the underlying anger or confusion.

 

I agree with everything you said, but what I agreed with the most is what you said about the knighting. I also have only seen bits and pieces of the Clone Wars series, but the way they portray Anakin is WAY more mature than the way he was portrayed in AOTC. I really wish they had done more on Anakin's transition from Padawan learner to knighthood in CW.

 

I agree! Anakin's voice sounds nothing like Hayden Christensen's voice, though sometimes I write that up to him being older than AOTC, Padme's voice disconnect is simply ridiculous.

 

I found Anakin to be a bit of a wimp in AOTC an ROTS .
If you showed me him in TCW beside him in AOTC or ROTS i'd say they were different people.

 

TCW Anakin comes off as a frat bro/surfer dude who is gonna preach to me about the value of being one with the ocean.

No thanks.

 

Think that TCW shows off Anakin as he was, caring, putting his life before Padawan and Troops and became the liked general he was spoken about. He is someone who is building up a ton of emotion and that carries through to ROTS

 

I really like the change in Anakin from the end of AotC to the beginning of RotS. He has grown much more measured and mature.

To me, it feels like the Clone Wars between AotC and RotS is more like 10 years than 3, and this is my interpretation. The development and changes in Anakin and Obi-Wan reflect this, in the films and CW both.

 

I think TCW Anakin was made the way he was to be more likeable, so he's less offensive, more generic, and easier to get behind. Unfortunately, I feel like that sacrificed the more 3 dimensional character pre-TCW(The films, 2d CW, the earlier books, etc). Obviously, they were never going to use Hayden as a voice actor, but if they had brought back Matt Lucas, and left dialogue and everything else exactly the same, TCW Anakin would've felt much more true to the character. As it is, I ended liking TCW Anakin a bit more, but find pre TCW Anakin much more compelling and interesting to think about.

On the flip side, imo, the character that TCW really gets wrong a lot is Obi-Wan(same goes for 2d Clone Wars to some extent). Neither Ewan, nor Alec Guinness ever conveyed the insufferable arrogance found in cartoon Obi-Wan.

Movie Obi Wan is thoughtful, understanding, mischievous, a bit squirrelly, and even coy. He's very confident, but knows his limits. He's overbearing with Anakin, but Anakin is used to it, and still loves and respects him, but he's never just seeping arrogance. Even most of the books I've read about or featuring Obi Wan seem to have no problem nailing the character perfectly, so this is one of my major gripes with TCW characterizations.

Lastly, while the less likeable qualities of Anakin are diminished in TCW, it's the opposite with Padme. Her naive idealism is ramped up to 11, and is even more insufferable than TCW Obi Wan. She can get really annoying, really fast. Movie Padme never struck me as so naive. The only time she's naive in the films is when she learns about Anakin's change, but even then, it's more like self-denial.

 

I say this time and time again: Anyone who claims that PT Anakin is completely unlikeable is ignoring parts of the films. ROTS Anakin has a lot of the characteristics of TCW Anakin; being friends with Obi-Wan ("All because of your training" "I've been arrogant and I apologize") loving his wife and wishing to do the right thing.

I still like and enjoy TCW Anakin but I dislike how they try to remove Hayden from him and how the fanbase treats him as the only real Anakin.

A soft, shy but kind Anakin is my guy.