Andor Andor Episode 2.10 Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I hope LucasBooks is already planning the Luthen and Kleya novel we clearly need. I would imagine Luthen also very likely to appear in books two and three of the Reign of the Empire trilogy.

 

I want a novel on how Dedra finds Luthen. I would read the hell out of that.

 

Another way to look at lonni's death (though it is potentially being too kind to luthen) is that this probably saved the life of lonni's wife and child. They may not have made it off world and with his death, the empire might leave them alone.

 

Not strictly true. Lonni told him that Dedra was putting together an Axis raid, but couldn't confirm that Luthen was the actual target. Lonni broke into Dedra's files intending to confirm, but found out about the Death Star instead and never was able to verify she had correctly identified Luthen.

 

Simple, if you care to consider it for a minute. The most important thing in this situation is that Luthen himself dies, as there are now loads of imperials who know who he and his shop is, not just Dedra. So Dedra’s death is of secondary importance compared to his own death. And if he attempts to stab Dedra, isn’t able to take her down, and is then subdued without dying, thus opening himself up to extreme torture? What then for the rebellion?

The writers wrote the scene to make perfect sense, while you’re both insisting that the writing is bad, and that Luthen is stupid for not doing something stupid that you think he should’ve done.

I think I’ll go with the writers on this one.

 

Also that characters aren’t always playing 4D chess and thinking through every move during a tense situation (one where it’s too late and he’s surrounded) isn’t a sign of stupidity. He’s still human. And it’s still the smart move. Because had he killed her,
it could have been his one chance to do something before being stunned by the others. Killing Dedra stops nothing. Killing himself guarantees that the intelligence isn’t going into their hands.

 

That was my other point. They’re not droids. Humans don’t follow rational choice theory to the letter. But even if they did, trying to stab someone to death is easier than actually stabbing someone to death. The likelihood of failure is high. Whereas the likelihood of fatally stabbing himself is much greater.

He needs to die, not Dedra. So that’s what he does.

 

I’m also in awe of how Kleya responded to this. How many of us kinda expected her to save him. To drag his half-dead ass back to the safe house.

In some other far safer show (SW included) this may have happened. But nope. She went there to make sure the Empire couldn’t get that info. She killed him. There was no way to rescue him and get out. End of day, Dedra and Luthan aren’t important. Information and the larger Rebellion are. Which is exactly what he trained her to do.

 

Kleya is a hard, hard woman. Phenomenal performance by the actress (supposedly this was first role? That's wild). They handled that entire storyline so well. No "Luthen waking up for some last worlds", no "failed attempt to actually rescue Luthen"... just Kleya doing what she knew was necessary no matter how hard it was.

 

I wasn’t calling the writing bad. “Is he stupid” is a meme.

But also what he actually did, didn’t guarantee his death. Given the advanced tech in Star Wars, it’s possible death by Seppuku is very avoidable, and Kleya had to sneak in the hospital exposing her face to cameras in order to kill him.

Killing Dedra for her gun and shooting himself in the head could have made that scenario impossible and lose the ISB an agent.

If he wanted to die as fast as possible without risking attacking Dedra he should have stabbed himself in the heart.

I don’t think the writing is actually bad because in the spur of the moment he chose Seppuku.

 

No, not for a moment. She was clearly going in to tie up loose ends, any way she had to.

 

HA. Well I suspected they were. I'm glad they did not.

 

Yep. That's how I took it. The dead giveaway, (pun intended), was when the nurse said, "this room is the only thing keeping him alive." Once I heard that I knew Kleya was there to make sure Luthen dies.

 

I knew the moment she headed for the hospital. Like Chirrut says, there's a dark aura around someone who intends to kill.

 

It’s almost impossible to muster enough force to successfully stab yourself in the heart. He did the thing that was most likely to lead to his death, and even that almost failed.

 

The communication devices they used were pretty low-tech, at least that's what I gathered, to avoid being monitored. I do agree tho that it's a bit confusing Luthen didn't have some sort of remote self-destruct device, it would have made things easier for him. Perhaps pouring acid on it was the surest way to make sure it was unusable as evidence, who knows?

Luthen screwed up by staying on Coruscant too long, this was mentioned by several characters, and it culminated by him being caught red-handed.

I think the way Deedra mishandled Luthen's arrest was right on point for her character. She made her whole career about finding Axis and she let her hubris get the better of her and stupidly went to confront a dangerous rebel alone because her ego was flying high, it was supposed to be her moment of triumph but instead it backfired on her, not unlike Syril's failed arrest of Cassian back in S1.

I'd also like to point out that we had a character commit Hara-Kiri on an SW show. Did anyone ever think they'd see something like that? The whole running theme of murder and suicide as a preference to being captured alive by the Imps in "Andor" is one of the things that the writers use to lend credence to the Empire as bad guys and it works well. I wonder if we will ever see that level of gravitas in SW again.

 

This. Blowing up a building is not a surefire way of destroying everything in it. Many things, including electronics, can survive explosions, fires, etc. The acid was used to make sure the comms device disintegrated fully. Made sense.

 

Dedra knocked in the middle of him pouring the acid, I think that’s important to remember. He didn’t have time to finish the job thoroughly and inspect everything. Not answering the door would have been very suspicious and at the time he doesn’t know who’s there or if the Empire is totally on to him or just getting close and poking around for evidence.

 

I do hope the actors in Andor receive their due praise. Elizabeth Dulau as Keyla in this episode blew me away. You can feel the anger, the sadness, the determination in her every step. The immensity of the emotions that you can see in her every look. She carried almost this entire episode on her own, which I doubt would have worked with anyone who wasn't a phenomenal actor.

 

And little Kleya!!!!!! Best child performance in Star wars history

 

I agree, up to this episode she has mostly been a stoic character who we knew almost nothing about. This episode really added depth to the character and allowed the actress to shine. I bet it's her favorite episode.

Spoiler: language

Here's an interview with Elizabeth Dulau about "Andor" for those interested.

Seeing a dirty child hiding in some ductwork or whatever made me think of Newt from "Aliens."

 

The actress playing Kleya was absolutely fantastic. She stood out to me, which is impressive considering how many great performances there were in Andor. She more than held her own in numerous scenes with Stellan Skarsgård. In particular, I thought she was very good at acting with her face; expressing complex emotions non-verbally.

 

Anyone else notice the Mortis stone in Luthen's shop? A lovely, subtle bit of fan service.

 

I reckon she was about 13/14.., she's 15 now