Apology scene

After the "apology scene" Anakin found out that Obi-Wan stopped by. That's why he said "Obi-Wan" doesn't trust me.

Anakin: Was Obi-Wan here?
Padme : Yeah, he stopped by earlier. He's worried about you.

Anakin: Obi-Wan and the Council don't trust me.

 

I also love this scene in the movie. Anakin's face when Obi-Wan tells him he is so proud, they way he lowers his eyes and feels embarrassed for the compliment tells me he is sincere, and is overwhelmed by this. Is a wonderful and heartbreaking scene.

 

After exchanging "may the Force be with you"'s, Anakin's eyes start shifting then he starts to look worried. I think he knew what he was about to do and he looked as though he felt he is now going to do somethng wrong.

 

It's simple enough. Anakin is beginning to go down the dark path, as his desires and insecurities start to destory him, but at the same time, Obi-Wan and the Jedi are still massive influences on him. The scene shows WHY it was so important for Palpatine to get Obi-Wan away from Anakin, because with Obi-Wan still on the scene, his influence would have made it much harder to get Anakin to betray his Jedi comrades.

Remember, at the start of the movie, Anakin actually saved Obi-Wan, against what Palpatine told him to do, so it does show that Obi-Wan and Anakin shared a deep bond, that was only finally broken when Obi-Wan was no longer around to keep Anakin on the straight and narrow.

If only Anakin had gone to Obi-Wan with his fears about Padme....

 

Anakin's face when Obi-Wan tells him he is so proud

He has the same look on his face as Obi-wan leaves for Utapau; he is probably thinking about what Obi-wan just said. As Obi-wan takes off, Anakin's expression changes and becomes slightly darker. His eyes shift to the side, just like in the opera scene. His thoughts have become troubled and disturbed.

 

This scene reminds me a lot of the one on TPM, where it's Qui-Gon telling Obi-Wan what a great Jedi he's going to be, BTW. Anybody else thought that?

 

It showed that although Anakin was unhappy with his "latest assignment," he still had much respect for Obi-Wan. Once Obi-Wan was out of the picture, Palpatine could finish bringing Anakin to the dark side. It's also a nice mirror to TPM, when Obi-Wan apologizes to Qui-Gon.

Edit: Beat me to it while I was typing, G-Fett.

 

I don't think there is any question Anakin would not have turned if Kenobi had been in Mace's place, well he would not have chopped his arm off. Anakin did have a devotion to Obi-Wan, but not to jedi totally. He cared about Palpatine, Padme, and Kenobi, he was not the noble, jedi above everything, Kenobi was. It was a good scene though.

 

If Obi-Wan went to arrest Palpatine instead of Mace, Palpatine would have been taken in for questioning (assuming they could subdue him long enough).

 

One of the many subplots in the novel that didn't make it into the film was the reason that Anakin wanted to desperately become a Jedi Master. Only a Master had access to Sith holocrons & records in the archives, and after Palpatine talked to him at the opera, this is where Anakin wanted to begin his search for the power to save Padme.

It was also hinted that Anakin wanted to discuss this with Obi Wan before he left, but couldn't bring himself to do it after the apology scene.

"Obi Wan.....wait"

Obi Wan turns back to Anakin.

"May the force be with you." - that wasn't what Anakin really wanted to say, but let Obi Wan leave for the mission without bringing up Darth Pleguis & the power to save people from death.

 

i didn't know all that, they should have just made him master since he was more powerful than all of them, and none of this would have happened. Kenobi even being his only real friend, still would have told him to be patient, since he always thought the jedi were right.

 

G-Fett

this scene reminds me a lot of the one on TPM, where it's Qui-Gon telling Obi-Wan what a great Jedi he's going to be, BTW. Anybody else thought that?

Yeah, PadmeLeiaJ saw the same thing. See below:

RotS has many points in it where it mirrors TPM. TPM is the fairy tale of the story - it shows how that the simbiotic relationship between Padawan and Master and how the relationship SHOULD work with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan being the perfect Apprentice/Master pairiing.

Anakin and Obi-Wan were always at odds w/ each other - the old methods of teaching just didn't work.

Well, you just contradicted yourself. If the old methods didn't work, how are Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan the 'perfect' pairing?

The departing/ apology scene wonderfully mirrors the scene in TPM where Obi-Wan apologizes to Qui-Gon for speaking ill of his decisions to train Anakin.

Well, we don't actually know what they are talking about.

Qui-Gon's words match those that Obi-Wan says to Anakin "You'll be a far better Jedi/(Man) than I ever was."

Fortunately, Qui-Gon was right but unfortunately, Obi-Wan was wrong.

Obi-Wan, like Qui-Gon IS very proud of his apprentice. We also get to see that Anakin and Qui-Gon are very close. It's a wondeful moment because it's the first and only time that Anakin calls his former Master "Obi-Wan" without Master in front of it. The two genuinely care about each other - you can see in Obi-Wan's proud smile that he really has become Anakin's big brother and feels like Anakin's his closest friend.

Yeah, shame it was just b-llsh-t from Anakin though. He's acting all 'appreciative' of Obi-Wan's training and shows a bit of maturity (poor Obi-Wan is so proud, thinking his little padawan is all growed up), yet has so many secrets of murder in his immediate past, he knows Obi-Wan is operating under mistaken assumptions about him.

Anakin is lost at this point. Obi-Wan gives him the praise that Anakin has been craving for so many years

Anakin is lost, but he's been getting praise for years - from Palpatine, from the public. Jeez, how much does he need?

EDITED TO ADD: Hmm, yeah, things might have gone differently had Obi-Wna gone with Anakin to arrest Palpatine - assuming of course Obi-Wan would let him. Mace forbidding Anakin to go was with good reason as we all found out. Even the cops say 'you're too close to this case' with just cause. Palpatine might have been too powerful for Obi-Wan and might have killed him. Anakin would have definitely had to have made an even more difficult choice. Padme dying would have still been uppermost in his mind.

 

Anakin was receiving praises from everyone except the Jedi. And he care about theirs more because there were his colleagues. I'm guessing he care more about Obi-Wan's opinion than anyone else. But after all the heroic things he did in the war, still Mace Windu and other Jedi didn't trust him.

 

This scene serves to illustrate very nicely one of the subplots of the PT - the opposing influences of Palpatine and Obi-Wan on Anakin - the bad and good angels on his shoulders. As long as Obi-Wan was directly present to diffuse Anakin's tensions, he would not completely go bad. As G-FETT said, Palpatine knew this and made sure to have Obi-Wan go off-planet. Anakin is genuinely apologetic and then happy when Obi-Wan praises him. Yet, once Obi-Wan is gone, the old doubts, jealousies, greed, all resurface in padme's apartment.

The apology scene is like the TPM one, except that Obi-Wan was truly mature at that point in TPM, and ready to be on his own, while Anakin is still quite immature in RotJ and needs Obi-Wan's guiding influence 24/7. Like a dark side addict who needs constant monitoring.

The composition of the scene when Anakin says: "May the Force be with you" and calls Obi-Wan by name is exactly the same as Luke/Han on Hoth in ESB, and shows their friendship.

 

True, but the last line Anakin says to Obi-Wan, "Obi-Wan...may the force be with" also has a large amount of potency about it. Not only do they have mutual respect, but they also see each other as brothers and no longer in a master/pupil relationship. This is highlighted by the fact that Lucas changed the line from "Master...may the force be with you" to what it was in the film. By taking out master and replacing it with the name of Obi-Wan, he gets across an important message: they're no longer in a professional relationship, but a strong friendship based on respect and love.

 

Yes I notice that in the edited clip of that scene in the video game, he calls him master but in the film, its changed to calling him Obi-Wan.

 

darth mami

Anakin was receiving praises from everyone except the Jedi.

1) we don't know this
2) should anakin get 'praises' for doing what he's supposed to?

And he care about theirs more because there were his colleagues.

The fact that Anakin flouts the Code and always listens to Palpatine given the choice between the two leads me to doubt this statement.

I'm guessing he care more about Obi-Wan's opinion than anyone else. But after all the heroic things he did in the war, still Mace Windu and other Jedi didn't trust him.

You mean they should trust him after he chopped Dooku's head off? Oops, sorry, they didn't know about that little detail. Anakin kinda let that slide, didn't he? Trustworthy? I wonder how many times Anakin did something he DIDN'T get away with. Chances are Mace doesn't trust him for good reason. Another reason for not trusting Anakin? He accepted Palpatine's appointment to be his 'personal' representative on the Council. So much for Anakin caring more about what the Jedi think. The Jedi think his appointment's a conflict of interest. They think he's Palpatine's spy on the council. They think he should have refused Palpatine's little 'promotion'. And did he? Nope.

 

qui_gonn_jim

I hear what you're saying and I agree that the context & timing of this scene is a little odd. Anakin's self inventory & apology was quite refreshing from the "mini fit" he threw in the Council. Having read the novel, I think I'm trying to mesh the two (book & movie) into some nice little box where everything makes sense...and it aint happening.

I've noticed other scenes througout the PT that seem odd, or have a hidden meaning or something (like all of the glances with no dialogue w/Yoda, Mace, etc). I know I'm drifting away from the subject, but I'm just hoping GL has some type info that will be on the dvd...OR a "Star Wars for Idiots" guide that will answer some of the questions since May 19th.

 

I still remember the scene in TPM, where Mace says that Anakin will not be trained as a Jedi because he is too old and for a split second you see young Anakin narrow his eyes and gives Mace a real evil stare. Anyone else noticed that?

 

Yes!I think it's a great touch.It is like an anticipation of what will happen between them in the future.From that first meeting on those two NEVER trust each other.Well at least Mace doesn't trust Anakin.So it's a small but brilliant detail in the context of the whole story...And I agree that it would be really nice to one day find out what all those other meaningful glances really mean.But on the other hand,then we couldn't keep quessing here and that's half of the fun For me anyway...

 

They sure were quick in accepting him into the council without giving him mastership and on top of that telling him they needed him to spy on the chancellor. And he definitely feels Yoda and Mace don't trust him, and Mace said it himself. If he doesn't trust him why doesn't he do something about it? And I don't think he just "accepted" the appointment, I don't think he had any other choice than to accept, like he accepted the task of spying on the chancellor.

The thing is he has done a lot of good things during the war. And still the council has reserves about him, and he resents that.

 

darth mami

They weren't quick to accept him. To paraphrase Yoda, "Take lightly this appointment, the Council does not."

Anakin doesn't deserve a mastership. Masters are able to control themselves. Anakin hasn't shown great consistency in doing this. They need him to spy on the chancellor, sure. Why not? They feel the darkness around him, he's managed to consolidate power, he's suspect. They're in a war.

If Anakin definitely feels they don't trust him, the entire AOTC movie shows why they shouldn't. Maybe what Anakin is feeling is guilt and he's doing the typical selfish thing by blaming others for his faults. The audience also knows that the Council shouldn't trust Anakin because of all his lies and all the murders.

The Chancellor is Anakin's friend. Of course Anakin can refuse the 'honor'. He can just explain that it leads him into conflict with his Order. Palpatine would certainly 'understand' if he is Anakin's friend and a politician, but Palpatine knows Anakin's ambition is to be on the Council and to be a master ("I swear to you I didn't ask for this." "But it's what you wanted. It looks like your friendhsip with Palpatine has paid off." What do you think Obi-Wan is talking about?) so HE knows no way is Anakin going to refuse it out of sheer ego as opposed to considering the impact it would have on him and his relationship with his Order.

 

Yes, Anakin is arrogant, he wants mastership (for power or just because he needs it to investigate darth plagueis, either way), still, he recognizes this, and is able to apologize to Obi-Wan and be honest about it. I know few people who would recognize their faults, Anakin has many, but at least he was honest enough with himself to go to Obi-Wan and apologize to him. And I believe he was sincere.

 

These are the last self goverened thoughts of Anakin Skywalker in RotS and a glimpse of what he may have been like had he not been conflicted by Sidious and the Darkside. Its also specifically what Obi-Wan was thinking of in ANH when he says " ....and he was a good friend ". Not that there is any evidence towards that, but thats my opinion.

 

I believe that too.And he wanted to do it while he still could,he was very worried for himself AND Obi-Wan when Obi left.You can also see the surprised look Obi-Wan has when he does this,and that he IS very proud of Anakin and that he trusts him.Unfortunately I don't think Obi-Wan realized just how dangerous his leaving would be.Maybe he trusted Anakin too much.He perhaps thought after the apology that Anakin would be able to take care of himself.And he was finally wrong about that,Anakin wanted to give the impression that he could handle things himself,but obviously he didn't really believe that himself.
He just wanted to make Obi-Wan feel proud of his old padawan even though he really would have wanted to go with him to Utapau.