Are stormtroopers clones?

Valiento:
Lucas never once said that "all" stormtroopers are clones. So there is room for some stormtroopers not being clones.

Well actually, he did. Though I'm sure you'll twist the interpretation.

"I always knew the Stormtroopers were clones." - George Lucas, Starlog Magazine, 2002

Which means his plan for them all along was that they were clones.

 

"I always knew the Stormtroopers were clones." - George Lucas, Starlog Magazine, 2002

Like I said he never said,

"I always knew "all" the Stormtroopers were clones."

He also didn't say,

"I always knew the stormtroopers were "all" clones."

He also never said,

"I always knew Elite Stormtroopers were always clones".

He also never said,

"I always knew the Scouttroopers were clones."

He also never said,

"I always knew snowtroopers were clones".

He also never said,

"I always knew Dark Troopers were clones".

Etc. Etc. Etc.

So there is always room for some to be none-clones.

 

Your still clinging aren't you.

Jeez he doesn't have to say all of them, he says straight that the stormtroopers are clones, that means all of them.

 

Ya, and Imperial sources books says there are special cases in which some people are enlisted into the clone trooper ranks because of there skill. We see such instances in cases such as Kyle Katarn, who was most definetly not a clone. If Lucas allowed that then obviously not all stormtroopers, not everyone under every class of stormtroopers are clones.

By the way Dark Troopers aren't clones they are droids, so there, (lucas even called them Droid Stormtroopers when he showed off Lucasarts and the game, "Dark Forces" on news, so he even admitted at that time that not "all" stormtroopers were clones).

Lucas appeared on CNN's Future Watch show on the weekend of March 18/19 talking about and playing (!) DF.


It's like sansweet said Lucas is sometimes contradictory for instance;

"Yes, in George's view -- as far as the films go -- the baddest bounty hunter in the Galaxy met his match in the Great Pit of Carkoon where --unfortunately for Mr. Fett -- the ghastly sarlacc made its home.
However, Lucas also approved Fett's comeback in the expanded universe."-starwars.com

 

*slightly OT*
How on earth did the Republic manage to get through the Clone Wars with a paltry million clone troopers, I wonder...?

 

Brett_Bass:

That's part of my point exactly. The idea that the stormtroopers we see in A New Hope are all leftovers from the Clone War strikes me as highly incredible, since the Grand Army of the Republic started out with only 200,000 troopers (with "a million more well on the way"), and we know that the clone troopers bore the brunt of the war.

Hell, Inside the Worlds of Attack of the Clones says that 192,000 clonetroopers were deployed to Geonosis in the film. That one battle was almost the entire readily deployable military force of the Republic.

And the Clone War is believed to have lasted about four years or so. Even taking into count the galacticisation of the Security Forces, and the formation of a Regular Army and a Regular Navy, the clonetroopers were the spearhead, the main shock force. They'd be doing an awful lot of the hardest fighting.

Plus, there's the still unresolved "Spaarti clone madness" element introduced by Zahn's original trilogy. Pellaeon is pretty explicit in saying that some of the clones that "the fleet" encountered "early in the war" were spectacularly unstable.

 

Remember we are dealing with a fantasy film here, actual numbers dont matter that much.
In Star Wars 1,200,000 troops seem enough to me to be able to wage war and control the galaxy.

And the Clone War is believed to have lasted about four years or so

Correction its 3 years.


Also the unresolved Spaarti clones will be left unresolved. Don't expect Lucas to include them. There will doubtless be a book which sorts it all out (if there is I aint buying it).
Seems to me that Lucas is pretty happy to have the clones be not just the Republic army but eventually the Empire's army.
Plus Lucas even blatantly says in the AOTC DVD commentary that Stormtroopers are clones, plus I think Rob Coleman mentions it as well.

But I suppose the EU, in the parallel universe, can have some stormies be non-clones. Which doesn't make sense, but do y'all care?

 

after the clone wars, all cloning tubes were destroyed except for those the emporer kept at his mount taanan facility. Storm Troopers were not clones in themselves, but trained in such a way where they seemed all alike. I forget which book it is, but an imperial officer makes the statment in referance to them saying, sometimes I think there's a factory somewhere that produces them. I'm sure some were clones left over from the clone wars, but overall they were just brain washed fanatic troops.

Also, if you notice, there were 2 kinds of soldiers in the Imperial army, regular troops and storm troopers, which are considered the elite, and then the Emporer's guards of course, which are the most elite and loyal storm troopers. So once again, not all troopers are clones, they just all have the same basic brain washing and training making them all similar in actions. It'd be like taking the Navy SEAL's and turning them into fanatics and making them all dress the same.

Just because someone wore storm trooper armor didn't make them a storm trooper either, in the X-wing books they mention how Isard used regualr troops and had them wear the armor, and they could tell becuase they talked to much and wern't dicaplined enough to be real storm troopers. Storm troopers are shock troops, they dont fight ground wars, they specalize in capturing ships and limited engagment fighting. The reason they wore the armor was (besides providing limited protection from blasters) to inspire fear, why else do you wear a full helmet that restricts your vision. Same with the all white color, the only reason you wear bone white armor is to make a statement. Storm troopers were masters in small arms and close quarters combat, they'd come in, kick butt and go. Up until the reespablishment of the Jedi, storm troopers were regarded as the most elite fighters in the galaxy.

 

after the clone wars, all cloning tubes were destroyed except for those the emporer kept at his mount taanan facility. Storm Troopers were not clones in themselves, but trained in such a way where they seemed all alike. I forget which book it is, but an imperial officer makes the statment in referance to them saying, sometimes I think there's a factory somewhere that produces them. I'm sure some were clones left over from the clone wars, but overall they were just brain washed fanatic troops.

Sorry that doesn't wash. PPOR. Plus we havent seen EP3 yet so you are wrong at this moment in time.

 

i havn't played all the games and stuff that most everyoen else has, i just read the books, but according to the thrawn novles, that's true. That's why he was so interested in the place, he wanted the cloning tubes there. Maybe in some other material they say differnt, but according to the books there were no other tubes.

Also in the thrawn books they mentino how they quit using clones for all soldiers because the clones would go mad after a relativly short period of time.

 

That's part of my point exactly. The idea that the stormtroopers we see in A New Hope are all leftovers from the Clone War strikes me as highly incredible, since the Grand Army of the Republic started out with only 200,000 troopers (with "a million more well on the way"), and we know that the clone troopers bore the brunt of the war.

The procuration of the Republic immediately following the Battle of Geonosis was for 1,000 Acclamator-class clone troopships. The troop complement for that force would easily be 16 million clone troops.

Obi-Wan's opinion in the Attack of the Clones novelisation is not absolute; he is capable of hasty assumptions and jumps to the conclusion that unit = clone.

Furthermore, Republic #50 and the recently release Inside the Worlds of Attack of the Clones lends itself to the conclusion that the 200,000 units refered the immediately deployable force from Tipoca City alone. Inside the Worlds... also states that there are multiple clone facilities and countless millions of clonetroopers ready in the brief aftermath following Geonosis, IIRC.

But I suppose the EU, in the parallel universe, can have some stormies be non-clones. Which doesn't make sense, but do y'all care?

Flame-baiting and vieled condescension. Cut it out. Now.

Furthermore, GL obviously feels thematically and for the purposes of plot that the Stormtrooper Corps are concieved to be a clone force. Does this mean there's some absolute universe-self-destructing law that says if a couple excellent volunteers were encorperated in, that would change the fact that for all basic purposes, the Stormtrooper Corps were a clone force? That if a handful of Stormtroopers happen to be recruits changes the fact they're just exceptions to the rule and the Stormtroopers as a whole are what GL says they are?

Of course not. But canon purists who want to flame bait and stir up false dilemmas do not mind that, eh?

 

Sheesh, a lot has happened since I've been gone... I see no one has taken interest in my theory that accounts for the New Republic being surprised to see clones in TTT as well as Lucas saying Stormies are clones... oh well I guess it didn't stick....


""Valiento, someone, tell me if there is any flaws in this..."

Ya, the flaw I can see is that there is no reason to retcon, non-clone stormtroopers as being clones, there is room for non-clone stormtroopers amongst the ranks of cloned stormtroopers because of special circumstances(which the imperial sourcebook points out), and conscription/recruitment, there are academies to train non-clone stormtroopers such as Carida. "

I am not sure if their is.. why would you substitute fiercly loyal clones who would never - in fact are incapable of disobeying an order for normal humans who can be swayed to rebellion... my idea, still accounts for the few so-called non clones since I said that they are the arberations (I think i said that word wrong.. oh well) and they seem to almost always join the Rebellion (although I have no actual eveidence to support that, if someone wants to give statistical proof against it so be it, but it hardly matters if it isnt true anyway) Val, Carida is still the training place for stormies in my theory, just all the stormies are clones of the conscripts and recruits.


Well.. Brett_Baas seems to be picked on a lot in here, give the guy a break, your coming off extremely rude, obnoxious and arrogant when your speaking to him. I apologies for my remarks if that is not what you meant to come off as but it is what it looks like...

Saying people with a different opinion to yours is "plain wrong" is a very arrogant thing to say, I think... and in support to that statement, that is but my opinion and if you think differently so be it...

Val, saying that the fans do not decide the fate of Star Wars, saying that it is not up to the fans to interpret, saying it is not a democracy of the people but an entity governed solely by Lucas/LFL is, (once again in my opinion) mistaken and hypocritical on your part... let me explain.

It is a mistake to say the fans dont have the power because, who gives the power to Lucas and LFL?... the fans by them liking what LFL comes up with and buying it, keeping them in business... The fans have the power over Star Wars, the "official" people just are the guiding hand, you can interpret what they say as you like... just because some fans disagree with your interpretation doesn't mean that your interpretation is any less feasible or credible than theirs... and I know your going to spout something about canonical evidence directly proving them just "plain wrong" but please listen, this canonical evidence everyone spouts off about is just as open to interpretation as the topic we are discussing, so that doesn't disprove anyone elses interpretation....

Basically what I am saying is

NO ONES INTERPRETATION IS WRONG

In my opinion, these forums should be a place for people to discuss their opinions and interpretations not a place where people just cause they own and have read more fiction than others shout out their superioty claiming their interpretations as supreme law...

Secondly, Val isn't your claim that Lucas is not saying that all Stormies are clones but an interpretation in itself? The statement in debate can be interpreted very differently, so isn't it a bit arrogant to claim that yours is the correct one? It is not the correct one, it is your one... Your proof for your claim is people like Kyle Katarn who is obviously not a clone... ok, well that is just fine, that is a perfect interpretation to have but please give me proof that Kyle Katarn isn't a clone... if you can give me proof do so in a polite manner please. I don't believe their is anything that directly says: KYLE KATARN IS NOT A CLONE... so can you see what you claim to be fact is but your interpretation and can be interpreted different by other people.. please have respect for other peoples opinions please.... they have just as m

 

Why don't we see clone technicians or pilots? And if the clonetroopers are able to adapt and be so well at tactics and think on their own, why aren't we seeing clone officers? You would think that there would have been more than one Piett or Veers. Then again, maybe this is why Vader didn't hesitate to kill those that did stupid things, like dropping out of Hyperspace at the wrong time

 

after the clone wars, all cloning tubes were destroyed except for those the emporer kept at his mount taanan facility. Storm Troopers were not clones in themselves, but trained in such a way where they seemed all alike. I forget which book it is, but an imperial officer makes the statment in referance to them saying, sometimes I think there's a factory somewhere that produces them. I'm sure some were clones left over from the clone wars, but overall they were just brain washed fanatic troops.

Do you have any documentation for this? Cite your sources.

As I have said several times already, some stormtroopers were clones. That's not up for debate, jefe. That's canonical fact. It's been clearly and unequivocally established by "Pax Empirica ? The Wookiee Annihilation", "Soldiers of the Empire", and a number of cards from Wizard's Star Wars TCG.

Also, if you notice, there were 2 kinds of soldiers in the Imperial army, regular troops and storm troopers, which are considered the elite, and then the Emporer's guards of course, which are the most elite and loyal storm troopers. So once again, not all troopers are clones, they just all have the same basic brain washing and training making them all similar in actions. It'd be like taking the Navy SEAL's and turning them into fanatics and making them all dress the same.

Um, no. Sorry, but thanks for playing, and please try again.

Stormtroopers are not part of the Imperial Army. They're the Imperial Marines ("Pax Empirica"), and they are organised completely separately from the Army, with their own chain of command (Imperial Sourcebook, Second Edition, and the Technical Journal of Imperial Forces).

And some stormtroopers ? not less than 40 per cent. -- are clones. Facts are stubborn things.

Lord_Darth_Bob:

The procuration of the Republic immediately following the Battle of Geonosis was for 1,000 Acclamator-class clone troopships. The troop complement for that force would easily be 16 million clone troops.

I don't see why you're assuming that the only personnel to be transported aboard Acclamators are going to be clonetroopers. A large part of the regular forces are probably going to consist of the Republican Guard, other Judicial Department paramilitary personnel, and the galacticised Security Forces.

Obi-Wan's opinion in the Attack of the Clones novelisation is not absolute; he is capable of hasty assumptions and jumps to the conclusion that unit = clone.

Furthermore, Republic #50 and the recently release Inside the Worlds of Attack of the Clones lends itself to the conclusion that the 200,000 units refered the immediately deployable force from Tipoca City alone. Inside the Worlds... also states that there are multiple clone facilities and countless millions of clonetroopers ready in the brief aftermath following Geonosis, IIRC.

Don't get me wrong, I think the 1.2 million clones number is ridiculous, but it's the number that the EU seems content to run with.

No, I can't say that Republic number 50 supports that idea. Obi-Wan specifically says ? in the presence of Lama Su ? "Kamino still has about a million or more clone troopers in various stages of preparation. A successful attack by the Confederacy might cripple the Republic". Notice that he says Kamino, not Tipoca City. And Lama Su doesn't correct him or emphasise that the stakes are even higher.

And Inside the Worlds of Attack of the Clones clearly states on page 21 that "[w]hen Obi-Wan arrives, Tipoca is already primed to deliver 200,000 clone troops, while facilities across the planet are equipped to produce millions more".

In the film, Lama Su tells Obi-Wan that 200,000 units are already available, with a million more well on the way (presumably the five-year-old generation Obi-Wan watches undergoing education). Inside the Worlds of Attack of the Clones doesn't say any more clones are read

 

Uh, actually, no. Read Lucas's remarks. He doesn't say that all stormtroopers are clones.

And once again, Lucas's remarks are what's called a generalisation. You cannot apply generalisations to each and every individual case. That's called dicto simpliciter, and it's a fallacy. It's invalid reasoning.

Lucas said the Stormtroopers are clones, he doesn't need to say all of them are because his statement is self-explanatory.
Why you need the word "all" confuses me. When he says "The Stormtroopers" does he not mean the guys in the white suits? Or is there are another set of Stormtroopers we havent seen yet? Or better yet was he talking about Hitlers personal bodyguard?

And come on! Lucas does not make generalisations. If he did everything he has said about the prequels shouldnt be taken at face value, but I bet you that you yourself don't think other statements Lucas has made are generalisations.
Lucas made an absolute statement, deal with it.

 

Thief, I am sorry my remarks offended you and Valiento, and I tried to be as polite as possible to the two of you, but when people start to act like that, it is difficult to point it out to them without using words that I admit most people would find offensive... because that is what they are.. offensive but it is still what you were doing, so I am sorry I felt compelled to inform you of it.

"Do you know what Ockham's Razor is? It's also called the principle of parsimony. In technical jargon, it's the idea that "one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything". In regular English, that means that when forming a theory, don't stick things into it that don't need to be there. "

Thankyou for that enlightenment, I will try to remember that in the future, and I admit, I do get carried away with theories at times, however can I point out that there was a reason to put it their. No matter how skilled an officer can be, even if he can easily outmatch twenty stormies one handed with the other behind his back, blindfolded - he will still not be as loyal as genetically altered clones. Since Palpatine was so obsessed with loyalty, it is strange to believe that he would substitute that.

"Well, jefe, it's nice to know you think I'm obnoxious and arrogant. I'll make a note of that on my invisible typewriter. "

Please refrain from sarcasm when you complain about me informing you of being something, especially when you are doing it in that very same response.

"Actually, no, saying that a factually incorrect position is "plain wrong" isn't arrogant at all. It's true. Arrogance enters into it when people who hold wrong positions try to use plurality to defend their ideas. Nope, sorry, a wrong idea is a wrong idea.
"

I agree, if someone said to you 2 + 2 = 5, it would not be arrogant to call them plain wrong, however since Star Wars is all fiction which is interpretable (if that is even a word...) I believe it is arrogant to say that someone's interpretation is just plain wrong...

"First of all, I'd love to hear you explain how Valiento has been a hypocrite. Because that's an extremely insulting thing to say, and if you're going to call him that, I frankly demand that you defend your slanderous accusation, or else retract it and apologise to Valiento for insulting his honour. "

Well actually I did explain how Valiento was being a hypocrite when saying how he merely interpreted GL's comments of stormtroopers being clones. Although it implied all stormies were clones, it could be interpreted as they are not.., he selected his interpretation cause it best fit his interpretations of other parts of the Saga and then claimed other interpretations "plain wrong" cause they didn't fit with his interpretation of LFL's guidlines.

"And secondly, no, sorry, the copyright to Star Wars belongs to Lucasfilm Ltd., not to "the fans". Moral property rights belong to George Lucas, not to "the fans". What "the fans" think doesn't make a damned bit of difference, and if you think otherwise, then you're labouring under false assumptions. "

Very well, your opinion differs from mine, that is fine, however let me explain mine. Just because LFL has copyright and GL has moral property rights doesn't mean the fans have no power. Sure they can't demand that an author makes ANakin SOlo come back to life or Chewie learn to use the Force or something, doesn't mean they don't have a say in how the Saga fits. Every person who reads a book has their own reading of it... that is taught in English at school, although I can not blame anyone who didn't know that, I hate English myself, however my point is that a readers interpretation is no less correct than another readers interpretation.

""The fans" do not have any power over Star Wars. Star Wars belongs to George Lucas and Lucasfilm Ltd., and they and they alone can determine what is and what is not genuinely Star Wars. The fact that "the fans" can take their business elsewhere if they don't like it doesn't change that one whit. "

 

I think some people need to stop viewing every single word that comes out of GL's mouth like a holy bible. We all know that man has a history of changing his mind a lot.

 

I think some people need to stop viewing every single word that comes out of GL's mouth like a holy bible. We all know that man has a history of changing his mind a lot.

Ah that tired old argument.

GL is Star Wars. What he says is true, even if he decides to change his mind. Its his body of work and he is allowed to do that.
But Stormtroopers = Clones has always been Lucas' idea.

 

Here are just a few things that have come to mind reading the posts:

1. Again I ask, if Lucas was intending to make Stromtroopers clones, why would he put them in different armor, why not reintroduce STORMTROOPERS like he adds other things from the OT along the way...does the Empire decide that the clone armor isn't for them? pretty expensive change for little reason.

2. I've read here how really "elite" volunteers and well trained men may slip into the stormtrooper corp. But the individual stormtroopers that have been written about, they weren't always the "cream of the crop" shall we say...as I recall, in a couple stories, Stormtrooper training was on the low end of recruit aspirations.

3. The Royal Guard, in lucas own words, are drawn from the most elite of the stormtrooper corp...so does this mean that at some point down the line Palpatine replaces his human guards for clones? Is Carnor Jax a clone?

4. Obi-wan...he talks about storm troopers in ANH, yet with all his experience with CLONETROOPERS, why would he not reference them in that light. (this is in a story sense, in the film sense, clones weren't on the radar in 77) Why would it become neccessary to change the name from CLONETROOPER to STORMTROOPER, when you are essentially changing a helmet?

5. Clone loyalty. If clones are used, the clone wars would generate strong bonds between clone soldiers and the Jedi they fight along side...the clones have not been bred to remove the aspects of brotherhood in arms. So when the purge comes, do clone soldiers just forget this and aid Vader in the hunt, or do clones aid the Jedi who they fought and died with?

This is where I felt there was a perfect openning for the removal of the clones and the placing of the Stormtrooper corp.

Either
A) Palpatine begins the purge and sways the public against the jedi, many of the clones aid the Jedi, so Palpatine declares they are mad and has them wiped out.

or

B) Clone maddness takes hold of the Clonetroopers...Palpatine orders them wiped out...The Jedi, respecting ALL life, protest the extermination...giving Palpatine the window to alienate the Jedi and sway the public against them..."They are allied with these MAD clones!"

It works...IF ANYONE READS THIS THAT KNOWS GEORGE...TELL HIM...YOU'RE MY ONLY HOPE!

 

1. Again I ask, if Lucas was intending to make Stromtroopers clones, why would he put them in different armor, why not reintroduce STORMTROOPERS like he adds other things from the OT along the way...does the Empire decide that the clone armor isn't for them? pretty expensive change for little reason.

Well things evolve. The armour the Clones have in AOTC probably gets upgraded, the helmets are changed. The fact you ask this kind of question rather than thinking logically dumbfounds me.

2. I've read here how really "elite" volunteers and well trained men may slip into the stormtrooper corp. But the individual stormtroopers that have been written about, they weren't always the "cream of the crop" shall we say...as I recall, in a couple stories, Stormtrooper training was on the low end of recruit aspirations.

I'll skip this.

3. The Royal Guard, in lucas own words, are drawn from the most elite of the stormtrooper corp...so does this mean that at some point down the line Palpatine replaces his human guards for clones? Is Carnor Jax a clone?

Never heard of Carnor Jax. Anyway things evolve as I say, Lucas may well have changed his mind this.

4. Obi-wan...he talks about storm troopers in ANH, yet with all his experience with CLONETROOPERS, why would he not reference them in that light. (this is in a story sense, in the film sense, clones weren't on the radar in 77) Why would it become neccessary to change the name from CLONETROOPER to STORMTROOPER, when you are essentially changing a helmet?

Because they are one and the same. He knows how accurate Stormtroopers are because he fought along side, then against them.

5. Clone loyalty. If clones are used, the clone wars would generate strong bonds between clone soldiers and the Jedi they fight along side...the clones have not been bred to remove the aspects of brotherhood in arms. So when the purge comes, do clone soldiers just forget this and aid Vader in the hunt, or do clones aid the Jedi who they fought and died with?

The Clones aren't totally independent. Its stated in the film (and in the novel). They do what they're ordered without question. So when the time comes they do what Palpatine and Vader order them to do.

 

1st off...I do think logically through these things...and the questions are still there, regardless of the excuses some people take as absolute fact.

I know things evolve and develop, but the change in regard to a change in name is suspicious to me and I wanted to put it out there for thought. Take a pill.

You wanna know my real opinion:

Lucas decided he wanted to cash in more on the toy market, so he changed a the name and a helmet and sold it as something brand new...there.

And as a result, we, the people who still actually give a care about the GFFA, have to make wild speculation and argue over canon and who said what and when...why? Because the people who are in charge don't care that much.

I know Star Wars is Lucas's creation, but it is very obvious his passion is lost for it, he doesn't care...He wants to sell action figures and posters and DVDs and anything else he can profit on. I'm sure the guy never intended his life would center on a movie he made in the 70s...he goes for maximum profit value, at cost of story, acting, and fan's sanity as we try to piece together a galaxy that becomes more and more fragmented, as they tell us they are trying to bring it together.

Try that for reality and logical thinking.

 

No thats called cynicism.

Lucas decided he wanted to cash in more on the toy market, so he changed a the name and a helmet and sold it as something brand new...there.

Thats wrong. Sorry but it is, you really think Lucas is just after money? You really think that? Well answer me this hotshot why if he is so interested in making money did he not just let the Star Wars franchise chalk up movie after movie after movie, like Star Trek? Why has he insisted on making the prequels himself?

And as a result, we, the people who still actually give a care about the GFFA, have to make wild speculation and argue over canon and who said what and when...why? Because the people who are in charge don't care that much.

PPOR. Who is to say GL doesn't care about his creation? I think he does because why else would he come back to it and complete it? Why would he be directing it? And speculation is fun when its within the boundaries of whats been presented so far. And arguing over canon? I'm not doing that here, but when I've seen so many poor SW spin-off novels which are supposedly part of the SW universe I question their validity.


I know Star Wars is Lucas's creation, but it is very obvious his passion is lost for it, he doesn't care...He wants to sell action figures and posters and DVDs and anything else he can profit on. I'm sure the guy never intended his life would center on a movie he made in the 70s...he goes for maximum profit value, at cost of story, acting, and fan's sanity as we try to piece together a galaxy that becomes more and more fragmented, as they tell us they are trying to bring it together.

PPOR. Again you have no basis for this comment other than your jaded view and lost idealism of what Star Wars is.
If he wanted the cash why do you think he made the films himself? With the same bad acting dialogue etc that SW is famous for. He isn't doing the prequels to make mney, in fact he was pretty sure he wouldn't make any money from them because he didn't know how people would take them.
And the only reason the SW galaxy is fragmented is because of the numerous problems the EU created. And Lucas only contradicts them because he doesn't view the EU as the proper continuation of the films (his Parallel Universe comment).

 

Sorry you are misquoting George lucas when you bring up the parallel universe comment, when he said that he also said that the only thing that will continue his story after he is done making the movies will be the expanded universe. If it is a alternate universe, then how can it continue his story? In other words you are using the wrong definition of parallel, and not bringing up everything lucas said, which is a rather deceitful and dishonest way of argueing. If you only heard part of lucas comment because you listened to deceitful purists, then I'm sorry that you are ignorant of Lucas complete conversation. But here is the most likely definitions that Lucas was using, when comparing the context of his entire comment;

Webster;
"3 a : similar, analogous, or interdependent in tendency or development b : readily compared : COMPANION c : having identical syntactical elements in corresponding positions"

Dictionary.com;
"Having comparable parts, analogous aspects, or readily recognized similarities. Having the same tendency or direction: parallel motives and aims."

In other words he must have been using definition of parallel where both are companions of each other, both sharing the same motive and aims. He obviously couldn't be using the definition dealing with alternate realities, because if it was an alternate reality, then the EU obviously wouldn't be able to continue his story after he stops making his movies.

 

I'm not Jaded on Star Wars...I'm Jaded on Lucas.

The reason he's making the movies himself is because he makes the whole film in-house cheaper then getting other companies to do it.

The reason he's not going to chunk out more films is because as the number of films goes up, the value on the individual film drops (need an example, look at Star Trek). That is why he was unsure about making the PT...because it may hurt sales on OT stuff.

And if Lucas wasn't going to take the EU seriously, he never should have done the licensing for it in 91. The literature would have gone on as it had in the 80s, and many of us probably wouldn't have read it. I know I got into it because of reading a statement BY LUCAS, that the literature was going to be "official, researched, and accepted continuation of the original story". I don't recall him saying "Until I feel like doing something else."

And you know what, believe it or not, I like the PT films. There are just things that make me whince because I've read stories that are suppose to be the "official" story that contradict it. And why? If you can in all honesty tell me and support that his conflicts with the EU were absolutely neccessary to the development of the new films, I'll deal with that.

But until then, I'm not about to throw away the things we all believed for a decade in the EU for Lucas to chase down another buck.


PS: Why do you think Lucas allowed story licensing for the EU? If it's his story, why let other authors continue on with it?

$$$

 

[image=http://images.amazon.com/images/P/080651941X.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif]Empire Building

"I agree, if someone said to you 2 + 2 = 5, it would not be arrogant to call them plain wrong, however since Star Wars is all fiction which is interpretable (if that is even a word...) I believe it is arrogant to say that someone's interpretation is just plain wrong..."

If an article says that stormtroopers are clones, that isn't open to interpretation, it if flat out says what it means. If another article says some stormtroopers are recruited because of there exceptional skill, that is not open for debate or interpretation, it says it how it is. It is hardly ambiguous in the least.

"Well actually I did explain how Valiento was being a hypocrite when saying how he merely interpreted GL's comments of stormtroopers being clones. Although it implied all stormies were clones, it could be interpreted as they are not.., he selected his interpretation cause it best fit his interpretations of other parts of the Saga and then claimed other interpretations "plain wrong" cause they didn't fit with his interpretation of LFL's guidlines.

I never once when discussing lucas comment about stormtroopers, say anyone was plain wrong. You are a lier and a conniver if you try claim that I did, and people can easily see through your lie, by looking at the posts where I discussed Lucas' comment. I did try to point out that it could be a generalization, that in no way contradicts the facts that the EU plainly state in other sources that some stormtroopers aren't clones(EU facts are pretty hard to interpret differently unless your interpretation involves ignoring what was said).

Not only did you insult me by calling me a hypocrite, something I wasn't at all in those posts, but you had to be deceitful to go about it as well. I'm ashamed that you had to resort to that, ...

"I praise you on whatever language that last sentance was however give my "pluralistic line of argument" a chance, yes your "you're wrong, because you can't disagree with me when I tell you you're wrong" does in a twisted sort of way make sense however if you follow my "pluralistic line of argument" then you can not call me wrong in the first place."

Pluralistic arguements = doublespeak;

Main Entry: dou·ble·speak
Pronunciation: 'd&-b&l-"spEk
Function: noun
Date: 1952
: language used to deceive usually through concealment or misrepresentation of truth; also : GOBBLEDYGOOK
- dou·ble·speak·er /-"spE-k&r/ noun

Oh, so you believe in deceiving, concealment and misrepresentation of truth? So you feel you have to lie by ignoring facts that the EU has established so you can not agree with some bits and instead reinterprate other more ambiguous comments?

"B: the interpretations given are not contradicting any essential, fundemental content.

C: they are contradicting your interpretation of that "fundemental" content.

D: Therefore they are not invalid."

If a source says that 40% of stormtroopers are Strandor clones(Pax Emperica), then there is no other way to interprate that, but it being Strandor stormtroopers are 40% of clones. If a source says that some stormtroopers are recruited because they are exceptional(imperial sourcebook), then yes some are recruited because they are exceptional, it has only one way to be interpreted and that is the way it is written, in other interpretation but the literal interpretation would be deceitful use of doublespeak.

"Actually Valiento is claiming that Kyle is not a clone... therefore by your argument would have to support that he is not just as much as I would have to that he is. Also you seem to miss my point. You can't prove that he isn't, I can't prove that he is... it is open to interpretation... you may suggest to bring in your "too unnessecarily complex a theory" idea however that is a mute point since I have already pointed out that there is a reason that it can be interpreted."[/block