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Battle of the Heroes in the A New Hope Lightsaber Duel!

Discussion in 'Archive: Revenge of the Sith' started by han_solo_321, May 13, 2005.

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  1. Darthnidan

    Darthnidan Jedi Youngling star 1

    Mar 28, 2005
    quote: All that should be done to the duel is putting BOTH in segments. No more, no stunt doubles, no extending it, and certainly NO redoing it!

    That was a really good jod. Solo

    There should defenately be changes. redoing, extending it, and doubles.

    There should be a newly redone scene.
  2. poker

    poker Jedi Youngling star 3

    Jan 6, 2005
    BOTH would not fit the OT, IMO

    It would look stupid to see old Ben and Vader fight once again on that music. It doesn't fit. They are not heroes anymore. One is an agent of evil and the other is an old Jedi. The music is too emotional for the Death Star environement and the relationship between Vader and Obi-Wan is not the same as 20 years before.

    Bad idea IMO
  3. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Apr 19, 2001
    I've brought this thread back up because I've added Anakin vs. Obi-Wan from the ROTS score (which I posted here I thought worked better than BOTH) into the Vader/Ben duel. I've also added music into the non duel portion of the scene as well as preserve the original music at the end which still works well. Tell me what you think.
  4. DarthJuggalo

    DarthJuggalo Jedi Youngling star 3

    Apr 10, 2005
    I must say that you made it fit pretty well. I do believe however that if the music is gonna redone for that duel, then you must redo the visual part of the duel as well.

    Nothing against Sir Alec but, that little spin move he does at the begining of the duel is laughable i'm sorry. [face_laugh] Not to mention it has a whole 2 minutes of screen time.

    This duel should be more of an epic, instead it is by far the worst duel in the saga.
  5. darth_ral

    darth_ral Jedi Youngling star 1

    Nov 9, 2004
    that is a very good edit, i saw the original with BOTH and I definitely like this version better; howerver, i'm still not certain if it should actually be done or not. i would like to hear some opinions of other songs that people think would work well during the duel.
  6. DMan304

    DMan304 Jedi Knight star 2

    Jul 10, 2004
    They shouldn't put the track from ROTS in there. There should be just some little echo of it in the background, like the first few times you hear the Imperial March in the prequels.
  7. darthnirvana

    darthnirvana Jedi Youngling

    Jul 12, 2004
    here's an idea, try hosting it so we can download it and not stream it.....
  8. brook_33

    brook_33 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 30, 2003
    good work qui-gon-kim, but i have to say i like the original poster's version.
  9. mastersith69

    mastersith69 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Mar 10, 2005
    you know that music would fit the anh duel if lucas was somehow able to go back and reshoot some scenes to add in and redit because that music took that fight to a hole new level. but it would of worked however obiwan and vader just moved to slow for a fast paced song like but good job.
  10. DT421

    DT421 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 6, 2003
    Well, that?s a matter of personal opinion.

    I love it as it is. Obi was only trying to buy time in that confrontation ? not kill Vader.

    To redo it, superimposing Alec?s face on a stunt man (like the horrific job they did with Dooku), just to see flips and saber twirls, would be a joke.

    Which, of course, is my personal opinion. :)

  11. BothofUs

    BothofUs Jedi Padawan star 4

    Nov 5, 2003
    actually, Dooku's face looks very good in RotS, IMO.

    And the technology only gets better.
  12. Death-Vader

    Death-Vader Jedi Youngling star 3

    Sep 7, 2002
    The only reason Dooku's digital face looked somewhat convincing is because they took high resolution scans of Chris Lee's face using a new technology that can take incredibly accurate 3-D scans. I'm pretty sure they lacked both the technology and the foresight to do this with Alec Guiness in 1976.
  13. DT421

    DT421 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Nov 6, 2003
    The ROTS Dooku was better than the AOTC version, so I agree with you there. And I think that if anything needs ?fixing? it?s the duel in AOTC and not ANH.

    However, when going back and forth in the editing between the fluid movements of stunt men, to close ups of the rickety movements of the ?older? actors, it just looks bad to me, IMO.

    I even noticed this in the Mace/Sidious duel, so it?s not even just exclusive to Lee.

    Besides we?re talking about trashing one of the greatest confrontations ever put to film, simply because there aren?t any flashy moves.

    Obi wasn?t trying to kill Vader.

    I mean can you see Obi doing this amazing flip and then landing, only to say, ?You can?t win Darth. If you strike me down??? [face_laugh]
  14. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 20, 2002
    The ANH duel is fantastic if you ask me. The problem isn't the duel, it's the fanboys, who can't appreciate something if it doesn't include eye candy. Well, I'd say sir Alec Guiness' acting is all the eyecandy needed.
  15. JMN77

    JMN77 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Sep 19, 2005
    I think in a way the silence in that scene (and others throughout the saga) gives it some realism too.
    To me the score is one of the most important catalysts' for the emotional expierience that the SW films relay to us.
    But to keep it from becoming unintetionaly 'jokey' (for lack of a better term) it needs balance.

    In ESB The Imperial March is predominant. Every little time you see Vader (or anything Imperial) his theme is heard at some point. And it works, and it's great!
    But, by ROTJ it would seem 'jokey' or.... more fantastical then it's supposed to be to hear it every time we see that character. Fortunatly John Williams is the man and realized exactly that. Vader's theme is heard, mostly incomplete, in few and short statements. Keeping it repectful in a way.

    I personally don't think the emotion that "Battle of The Heroes' conveyed in ROTS is right for this scene. I'm not talking about the speed of the sequence vs. the music either. Even if the scene was re-shot to be an energetic PT style battle, the conflict in the characters is not the same. It's gone. There are no reservations about killing one another this time. Ben knows that the friend, brother etc. that he did'nt want to kill before is absolutly no more. And naturally, for 20+ years Vader has thought about little else than Obi-Wan handing him his ***, removing 3 limbs, lecturing him instead of finding water :D, and overall diminishing his power and potential by at least half.
    There is no love in this one.
    To me BOTH isn't just about the action of the scene, but the emotional conflict in the characters as well.

  16. han_solo_321

    han_solo_321 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Dec 14, 2002
    Whoa! I didn't realize that this thread was still alive!

    To the poster who did the new clip! Good job!
  17. nisomer

    nisomer Jedi Master star 1

    Mar 1, 2004
    no offence to whoever did the new version...but i thought the editing was pretty horrible. music is written for a specific scene, and thats why i hate it when editors place music where it is not intended. the only thing to do with this scene is to have JW re-write it. and according to something he said in 02, he is going to rescore the whole saga (or most likely just certain parts of it).
  18. severian28

    severian28 Jedi Master star 5

    Apr 1, 2004
    A echo of the Battle of the Heroes would fit VERY well in the ANH duel, similar to the way many of the OT scorings are whispered throughout the PT, but not an entire overhaul of the duel to that piece.

    DARK__SITH__LORD Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jan 19, 2006
    oh...I can't see it.
  20. qui-gon-kim

    qui-gon-kim Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Apr 19, 2001
    no offence to whoever did the new version...but i thought the editing was pretty horrible. music is written for a specific scene, and thats why i hate it when editors place music where it is not intended. the only thing to do with this scene is to have JW re-write it.

    Then by that logic, the music from Luke's rescue from Cloud City in ESB shouldn't have been used in the destruction of the DS2 in ROTJ. Or Duel of the Fates from TPM shouldn't have been used in the Yoda Sideous duel in ROTS.

    Music that's wasn't orginally written for a scene is used alot in the SW films, so what I did was no different. I thought the Imperial March in the beginning works well for the duel and also the musical cue when 3P0 and R2 leave fits as well.

    And let me just say that an overhaul of the duel (new stuntment, choreography) along with JW rescoring will allow it to fit better with the rest of the SW saga. And I believe we will see this with the 2007 Archival Edition.
  21. nisomer

    nisomer Jedi Master star 1

    Mar 1, 2004
    Yes that is exactly what I am saying. JW should have rewrote the DOTF for ROTS (although it WAS a little different, since the choral track was not the same). But however, it's just like how The Arena shouldn't be used in the droid factory scene in Ep2, nor should it be used in the storm of the jedi temple in ep3, it should be used for what it was written for-THE ARENA! Along with all the other HORRIBLE copy and paste jobs in ep2, and some of 3. It's that damn Ben Burtt.

    Yes I am aware of all the pasting of music for different scenes. And I agree that the Imperial March would work there, but not in such a magnitude. It needs to be slower and darker. When it is played like the way it is, you are expecting something big to happen, but instead they just have a little "chit chat". The way that they are talking does not mirror the music. The music MUST mirror what is happening in the scene.
  22. The_Chibi_Kiriyama

    The_Chibi_Kiriyama Jedi Youngling star 1

    Nov 9, 2005
    I just saw the original post on this thread for the first time. I thought the music would make it overly dramatic, but I found that I was entralled to watch it even though I know what happens at the end! It was really cool how the music pents up just as the fight gets complicated (or as complicated as the fight would get between an old Jedi and Robo-Anakin). So, in appreciation...

    [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]

    One million hugs for the man who went through the trouble of bringing this to us.
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 28, 2001
    It's not eye candy, it's that the duel is lacking compared to the other OT duels. All that's asked for is that if Lucas were to change it, it should at least look like TESB or ROTJ. Both Prowse and Guiness look clumsy trying to fight without falling out of the light or breaking the wooden poles. Anderson and Hamill looked much better without having to hold back. We're not asking for the fighting to be like in AOTC or ROTS, but at least the sword movements should be much more fluid and credible. Careful editing to can achieve a near seamless blend between old and new footage.
  24. TheCRZA

    TheCRZA Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 29, 2005
    Yeah, but when's the last time either of them did any dueling?
    Vader in Dark Lord?
    Obi Wan on Mustafar?
    18 years worth of rust is a lot.
    I enjoy the duel in ANH a great deal.
  25. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Sep 20, 2002
    First of all, I'd like to appolgize for any missing letters in this post. Some buttons on my keyboard seem to have stopped working.

    Well, music don't have to be written for the scene, as long as the scene is written for the music. They have to belong together.

    It's actually eye candy that alot of people want, even if you're not one of them. I've heard people say, both on and off forum, that they should add some flips ands spins to the figt. If that's not eye candy, then I don't know what is.
    But they're not really trying to fight in the same way as Luke and Vader are. The real battle is in their minds and words, rater than in their swords.
    Myself, being a fight choreograper, think they move quite well for what it is. In fact, I'd say most of the moves in this fight look better than alot of the moves in the fights in AotC. The speed certainly is there. Fans always complain that they are moving way too slow, but to be honest, I don't see that. They are not using big, flamboyant moves, but rather small, more fencing-like moves (but two handed), but they execute those moves pretty fast. If you don't see that (not speaking to anyone particular now), then you've probably only decided for yourself that you think they move slow, and you're therefore seeing what you want to see.
    They also don't move around that much, wich might make it look more boring to some people.
    Be a bit more open minded, and look at it for what it is. It is pointless to compare it to the other duels in the saga, since it's a one of a kind duel that relies more on words than on swordplay.

    EDIT: And how would they achieve this "near seamless" blend between old and new footage? You think they would shoot it on 35mm? Hardly, since Lucas seem to have decided to never use 35mm again. HD and 35mm from the seventiees won't look right together - just like the Emperor looked very out of place in the DVD version of TESB.
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