Because Han Solo says "I'll see you in Hell" in ESB, there's now a mythology explaining what hell is

Yeah. But a parsec is a little over 3 light-years. It doesn't seem unreasonable in a sci-fi galaxy for two inhabitable planets to be less than that distance away from each other.

 

No, but on average you'd think the Outer Rim would be more spread out. Still, that's just on average, so it's ok for Tatooine to have a close neighbor.

 

On the contrary, I didn't hold Lucas to any sort of worldbuilding, as he was the type of filmmaker that wasn't particularly interested in the nuts and bolts of his universe - and that's fine. But as a consultant? Yeah, with his constantly changing views on every aspect of Star Wars, perhaps it's for the best if they just nod and then do what they want.

 

I don't especially like this. I like my force mysterious.

 

Edit: Totally the wrong thread.

 

Hey, just because he's obviously comfortable with his obesity doesn't mean you have to body-shame him for it.

 

Hell is not a primarily Christian concept!

In fact, hell is a very important part of most popular Buddhist traditions, to the point that there were entire sects based around selling trinkets and doodads to keep you out of hell. I know less about other religions, but I do get the impression that something very like hell was not uncommon in religions throughout the world.

And as long as I on the subject, using terms like "Eastern" and "Western" religion are rather silly since the Silk Road and Indian Ocean trade routes ensured that these religions frequently interacted and exchanged ideas.



Anyway, as to the original topic: Even if Han hadn't used that line, the Star Wars galaxy is full of people, and where there are people, there are religions. When we are discussing an entire galaxy's worth of religions, there is a lot of room for variation, and so it makes sense to me that at least some of those religions would have a concept of hell.

 

I like the idea that Han has deep insight into the metaphysical cosmology of the Force in which he professes an absence of belief.

 

Nothing even remotely suggests he has "deep insight into the metaphysical cosmology of the Force" just because he knows Hell. Han is a Corellian, and his culture has its own vision of Chaos, the Nine Corellian Hells. He must have heard about it from some grownups when he was a child, and he sometimes use it as an expletive, but that doesn't mean he has to know what it is exactly. How many Christians *really* know anything about the modern theology of Hell?*

* (As in "the state of those who freely separate themselves from God, and who suffer because God continues to love them while they can't return that love," and not "a fiery place for bad guys where winged imps keep maiming your bottocks with a pitch-fork.")

 

I also don't like the way lines spoken by OT characters are taken as a kind of Scriptural truth that must be validated no matter what. Like when Leia says "You served my father in the Clone Wars." Some people have been impatiently waiting through the whole prequel era to see the time when Obi-Wan works directly for Bail Organa. It's not enough that the Jedi give their allegiance to the Senate -- the only valid explanation is that at some point, there was an org chart with a line showing Obi-Wan right under Bail. It was spoken in the OT, so it must be absolute truth.

There are certain things that are extremely important -- "The last of the Jedi, you will be" -- and those things should not be undercut, but every line doesn't need or deserve that kind of literal reading.

 

Yes, that's the joke -- that people are correlating a supposed western concept with the Force and expressing distaste for it.

As though Star Wars only has one religion throughout the entire galaxy and if Han mentions hell, then it must be a part of that sole religion (the Force).

And further, that these oblique remarks have any sort of metaphysical truth to them at all.

 

"The last of the Jedi, you will be" ended up being "the last practicing Jedi" in the EU - with there being a few Jedi who survived the Purge, even to the ROTJ era and beyond - Vima Da-Boda being the first Purge survivor of note, in Dark Empire.

Wild Space had Obi-Wan helping Bail Organa, at least.

 

My bad, then. In my defence, I'd say it may be difficult to detect irony in written form.

 

I agree, how absurd that a character describing something about her father expect to be taken at face value, rather than viewers just accepting a byzantine explanation that's only vaguely alluded to in the films themselves.

It's like people needing an explanation as to why the Jedi served for a thousand generations in the OT when in the PT the republic only existed for a thousand years. I mean sure in the movies there's no explanation whatsoever but why the hell would viewers expect a film series made by the same guy to be coherent with itself?

 

I agree, rdhight. Plenty of expressions and words come from Greek mythology but most people who use those expressions and words don't actually worship Zeus.

 

Apologies for my ignorance. Perhaps I should have said popular American conceptions of Easter and Western mythology. I guess the point I was trying to make was that based on what we have been told about the force, a concept like hell just doesn't fit in. Just my opinion, obviously, YMMV.

I agree with this. I have no issue with hell existing as part of the mythology of some societies in the galaxy. What I don't like, is for hell to be a verified fact, and part of the "religion" (for lack of a better word) of the force.

 

My cynicism has become so caustic that it's disturbing even me.

 

Continuity is important to Star Wars. This isn't Doctor Who; I like continuity, and I expect it. And I definitely don't want a kind of lawyer's continuity that maintains only the slightest toehold on the films and gives us "Yeah, but" answers that reduce the average viewer's impression of events in the films into a mockery. But I also hope that as viewers we can accept continuity that isn't enslaved to a literal reading of every offhand remark said in haste, fear, anger. We don't need to go "BZZT SYNTAX ERROR DOES NOT COMPUTE" every time a line is shown to be true in a way that is less than mathematically accurate.

 

You mean like exactly what happened with the line in particular you were referencing?

There's "line that's not mathematically accurate" and then there's "line which is in no way indicative of what is portrayed, or even indicated, on screen."

 

Hey no problem. I just like any chance to show off my knowledge on such topics.

...In retrospect my response came off as more angry than intended. I just going for humorous exaggeration. Sorry about that.

As for the later - I misunderstood the complaint. Sorry again.

 

The point is that the prequels did show Obi-Wan serving Bail Organa. He's a Jedi, the Jedi serve the Senate, Bail Organa is a Senator. Even you must concede that point.

And it's not like that's the only thing establishing their connection. In Episode III, when Obi-Wan comes back from performing feats of derring-do in the Clone Wars, Bail Organa is there on the landing platform of the Senate bulding to greet him. They even spend a good portion of the movie working directly alongside each other. I mean, sure, the prequels weren't a non-stop buddy movie starring Obi-Wan and Bail. But no one watching the movies in episodic order without prior expectations would find that line from Leia the least bit odd or out of place, given what we see in the prequels.

 

Guys maybe Leia remembered her mother because the Force.

 

that is a different context. Hell to pay just means your in big trouble. See you in hell, means there is a hell

 

I bet Owen really begrudged Anakin following Obi-Wan on some damned fool idealistic crusade instead of retiring from being a Jedi and working on the farm.