CIS vs. Republic Warships

Here's some random notes i acquired on the various navies fighting each other. Is this right?

CIS Warships vs. Republic warships

The Republic seems to have the advantage in capital ship combat, but the CIS has some equalizing advantages.

Many of the CIS warships are designed for mass production, and were designed for business ?scores? not a full scale war. Many of the CIS leaders were cheap, and wouldn?t spend the money for a traditional fleet. Only the Providences seem to be specifically designed for combat. The Lukrehulks are simply converted freighters with VERY strong shields and some turbolaser offensive capability. The Recusants are mass-produced destroyers. The Munificents are originally used to harass worlds heavily in debt, guard treasure vaults, and transfer financial assets. They also were holonet relays, even though they have good anti-ship cannons. The CIS has virtually no warships larger than 3-km.

The Republic warships, however are designed specifically for combat by KDY, and all of its? energy can be diverted to its? weapons. Venerators were designed to be specifically fighter carriers, and still have some anti-ship capability. Victories are effective against enemy Capital Warships. The Republic also has very large warships, the largest CIS warships are 3-km. Mandators are very large, smaller than the Executor (17.5 km), and larger than 5-km. Procurators are also used.

It is likely that Droids aren?t as effective in battle as Clones and other living crews, the Droid Fighters are easily destroyed by Republic forces sometimes but they can be out-maneuvered by droids and surprised, as shown at the Battle of Hypori, sheer numbers can overwhelm the Republic, though. The CIS mainly uses Droids on its? warships with a small living crew, showing why the ships have a ?skeletal? appearance; powerful life-support isn?t necessary.

The CIS, being a Confederacy has the 6 main factions provide the ships, and the ships donated by a certain faction use that factions? crews, ex: Trade Federation warships, like the Lukrehulks and Providences are crewed by Neimodians, as well as battledroids, Hardcell-class transports provided by the Techno Union are crewed by the Techno Union crews, and Munificents are likely mainly crewed by Munns. It is likely, that Munificents and Recusants are crewed by a mix of the factions? forces; Battledroids mainly crew all CIS warships.

Providence-class ships became the heart of the Separatist Starfleet when the Quarren joined the CIS, using their firepower to combat Republic cruisers and acting as flagships for planetary blockades, bombardments and invasions.

It is said that Providence-class Destroyers can "easily" handle individual Venerator-class Star Destroyers in combat. During the Battle Of Coruscant, however the Providence-class Destroyer Invisible Hand took heavy prior damage with shields taken down, and the Venerator-Class Star Destroyer Guarlara was able to shoot it down, albeit with heavy damage to the right side and shields down.

The Providences are also carriers, and if the Mag-Con shields fail, the hangar will quickly close to save the crew. This may be from the fact that the Providences were originally designed for the Trade Federation?s high-ranking personnel. Are there air- warmers in the hangars or are the hangars mainly closed most of the time unless fighters are launched. At Coruscant, it wasn?t, but fighters were still being launched

Grievous further modified the Invisible Hand by rearranging its reactor to accommodate more starfighters and invasion craft, and turning the sensor/communications pod into a private sanctum and propaganda base for Dooku. These modifications sound like they reduced the ship's combat ability even more, as the Reactor might be more vulnerable, a larger hangar for enemy craft to enter, less weapons being able to be mounted on, and reduced comm. abilities with other warships. Had the Invisible Hand not been modified as much, it could?ve been able to survive the broadside the Guarlara gave it, and possibly destroy the Gura

 

A flotilla, eh? A "light freighter" sized Tempest gunship sent a pre-TPM I-class pigging for a sow. And before you say the Lucrehulk core's 270 defensive pointers, bear in mind they are fixed and would fire on itself for the main, when attached.

 

The Republic also has very large warships, the largest CIS warships are 3-km.
Um... yes, but do you realise that the CIS planned to build a Death Star? So they could've had their big warships if they wanted. Mandators and Procurators are rare.
The Lukrehulks are simply converted freighters with VERY strong shields and some turbolaser offensive capability.
With the sheer number of TLs and the shield power, a Lucrehulk is a more battle-worthy ship than a carrier like a VenStar. That's not bad at all for a converted ship, isn't it
It is said that Providence-class Destroyers can "easily" handle individual Venerator-class Star Destroyers in combat.
Invisible Hand was pounded by many Venators, while it heavily damaged quite a few of them, IIRC.
It is likely that Droids aren?t as effective in battle as Clones and other living crews, the Droid Fighters are easily destroyed by Republic forces sometimes but they can be out-maneuvered by droids and surprised
The droid fighters seem to be pretty able, the tri-fighters in ROTS nov. were giving even Jedi a hard time with their uber-manuevers, the usual Droid fighters were fitted with SAM missiles, which I find vastly superior to usual fighter blasters.

That is all. Other than that, great analysis.

 

did the Lucrehulk launch fighters? Oh, that's probably the Lucrehulk-II, this is a quote for the Venerator-class Star Destroyer in ROTS:ICS

not as much in the Core Worlds, and there are the other multi-kilometer warships guarding worlds liek Humbarine, Alsakan, Grizzmalt, Wukkar, so on...

True. this version is likely an older version. Maybe I made it sound bad..and I should add the Lucrehulk-II, thsat Kicks ass

okay..

but the ARCs have Proton Torpedoes (and I believe Proton bombs) and V-wings have concussion missiles also. There are different things, one, as in ROTS has the Droid fighters do good against clones, buth then again there were more droids there. The ROTS noveliation has the dorid fighters able to adapt to their enemies, but another one has 2 Clone Squads picking off droid fighters off the Invisible Hand before pulling back to let Home Fleet Strike Group Five have fun with it.

[quote\That is all. Other than that, great analysis. [/quote]

thanks

And thank you, Darthdubya for replying.

 

There was a picture at hyperspace some time ago, which depicted a TF-battleship at the time of ROTS. 56 very heavy TLs, 880 quadlasers and ~430 long cannons. Almost five to six times the weapons of an ISD-I, perhaps more with the many quadlasers.

 

The Novel states that Three Light-Carrock Cruisers and one Dreadnaught were pounding on the Invisible hand around the time that Needa and Grevious offered the "Cease Fire" to each other.

The one thing about Droid Fighters is that the pilot comes with the ship. Even with Clones they actually have to be TRAINED in Starfighter combat. That takes a bit more than whatever time it takes to pump out a droid Starfighter. The Republic needed to worry about Materials and Manpower, the CIS need only to worry about materials. A definite advantage. Second advantage is that while sentient piloted craft might end up with situations like Anakin's "I'm going to help them." "No, they are doing their job so that we may do ours." Too much time will be spent by sentients trying to keep their squadmates/Jedi friends/THEMSELVES alive. The Droids have one mission - destroy as many things as possible. Bearing the first statement in mind, there were far more Droid Starfighters than Jedi-Starfighters or ARC-170's. I'd assume "The one crawling with vulture droids" indicates a number of fighters that is far higher than Anakin/Obi-Wan and their squad. 5 ARC's vs. 5 Vultures? I'll go with the ARC's. 5 on 20? Probably still go with the ARCs. 5 on 50? Bye Bye ARCs. Same with the Jedi, although the numbers increase.

Now, at the risk of sounding really really stupid, I'm going to mention something I hadn't really thought of. When I was thinking of the Lucrehulks, I remember thinking when I first say AoTC "The Center of those ships drops out to go planetside? The big ball in the middle is a ship? A round ship. Whatever." Wait a minute. Death Star = Round Spaceship. It seems that Geonosians were the planners of the Death Star, but was any influence or design ideas taken from the core of the TF Lucrehulks?

Carnage

 

Actually Victories were designed with capital ship combat in mind, as they were described as "the ultimate combat starship." (For their time of course.) And I think it's worth noting that the ships launched after the CIS's new Bulwarks were Victories.

Awesome analysis aside from that nitpick though.

 

You're right about those cis ships, but this doesn't say they are weak.
You're wrong about the venator, I hate it when people say it's a starfighter carrier. The Revenge of the sith Incredible Cross Sections indicates that the venator is a fighting ship that could easily blast the hull of a trade federation cruiser. It also indicates that the primary function of the venator is a fighting ship AND a star fighter carrier. This also explains why there are only venator's fighting vs the separetist during the battle over coruscant. The official name of a venator is 'Venator class STARDESTROYER'. So this means the venator's fighting role is the same as the Imperial class stardestroyers. Because the Imperial class has hangers filled with fighters does that make it a carrier. NO
Sorry for the bad english

 

Yes and no. The Victory-I wasn't a good ship for space-combat because of its slow sublight-speed, but that was corrected with the Victory-II.

Where does this "ultimate combat starship" originate?



According to ROTS:ICS "a flotilla of those medium-sized warships could blast through the shields of a TF-battleship with ease", not a single Venator.

 

Then watch the bloody movie.lol
How many venators are taking the invisible hand down, I only count one.
And don't start talking about that the venatot that took the hand down was just the finishing touch on the early work of the carrack cruisers

 

that is true, but victories mainly had 80 concussion missile launchers I believe but tid have lasers, I don't think that was very good for ship-to ship combat

Uh, the Invisible hand already took decent shield damage before that happened, it fled to be surrounded by fellow CIS ships before that attack happened. Note how Snskin Skywalker took down a shield generator protecting the internal hanger, the shields whould've normally been pprotected but they are weak enough to take starfighter fire.

i didn't say tht, did I?

A flotilla...around 20 Victories/Venerators at most..and it can take down the shields not hte hull.

Those big holes made easy targets to shoot in. You know sentinent starfighter pilots likely used that an advantage at least once. Yes, they also do good against enemy starships, too.

Oh, there are other ships there, like Vicotries and Mandators, bu tthey're not shown. The reason is that groups were recalled from the Outer Rim

the Imperator ("Imperial") is a multi-purpose ship. In the Core Wprlds, etc it is a destroyer supporting the larger warships, but in the Outer Rim it is a destroyer, troop carrier, fighter carrier, ship-to-ship combat ship, patrol ship, diplomatic flagship,e tc.

Imperators have a smaller hangars.

 

Commander_Kayman
Warsie is right. The Venator's fighting ability is much less relative to it's carrying capacity, compared to OTHER ships, even to other Clone Wars ones. That's enough to say it's more of a carrier than of a battleship.
It also indicates that the primary function of the venator is a fighting ship
In a backwater hole like some Tatooine a VenStar could be an unrivaled mega-fighting ship, but in a battle like Coruscant it's not really primary a fighting ship, but a carrier instead.
This also explains why there are only venator's fighting vs the separetist during the battle over coruscant.
We only see portion of the huge battle, and the reason is simple, VenStars are cheap and numerous throughout the Republic, so why wouldn't they be used? The only other worthy rival, Victory, is not as numerous, but it may have featured in the battle.
Because the Imperial class has hangers filled with fighters does that make it a carrier.
Except... uh... it carries a few times less than the VenStar, and it seems it's spaces are occupied with power-generation/etc to power up it's MUCH more powerful weapons, compared to the VenStar again. It's a change. Certainly.

 

True, however in a slugging match with ships engaging each other at ranges similar to that we see at Coruscant I would imagine speed becomes somewhat less important.

The exact quote is from Starships of the Galaxy, and the claim that the Victory was considered to be the pinnacle of combat warships at the time of the CW is backed up elsewhere. I figure that claim can still be justified even in light of the Mandator-class vessels in that Mandators are much rarer ships (are there even any recorded instances of them leaving the Kuat system?) and the question if they even saw combat.

Victories actually carried an armament of twenty double heavy turbolasers, in addition to a number of lighter turbolasers. And those 80 missles she carried would pack a devastating punch, although I guess that would depend on your view of how effective missles are.

 

And the Imperial warlords (like Teradoc) made the VSD-Is faster, lightning fast...or thy were all upgraded to Victory-IIs. This was done at the latest 8 Years post-Endor, likely done before Endor.

True..but they can't penetrate an ISD-II's bridge in one shot...more than one, likely.

 

To be fair the ISD-II came along over 20 years after Victory-Is were introduced. And as I recall in Isard's Revenge at the battle Ciutric(sp?) a pair of Vic-Is pretty much tore an ISD-II to shreds in short order.

 

Ah yes, the shields were down. Forget my example then. But in Reckoning's defense, it was owning Home One pretty well.

 

Lol, i hope you know the difference between a TF-Battleship and a TF-Cruiser (which is actually a destroyer-carrier according to the ROTS:ICS).
Considering, that the IH is a modified version of the Providence-Class (her combat-ability weakened in favour of hangar- and communications-facilities) it is a small miracle, that the ship lasted that long against a Venator, but that might be because the Venator isn't firing with full power, since the SupremeChancellor is still aboard.

 

Haha I do know the difference! Still kind of strange that they see the tf cruiser as a carrier. That would give the same problem to indentify the combat roles of this ship just as the venator has it's 'id'problems
I've read( I believe at the starwars databank)that there was a communication failure between republic high command and the venator guerlara. That's why the venator attacked the hand head on and at full power. Still I find the entire carrack sub plot in the novelation of revenge of the sith hard to believe. That's what happens when people start writing a book about a movie before even seeing the movie.

 

It might be limited to modified Providences like the IH. Ordinary Providences might be pure combat-vessels. The really interesting question is, how many fighters does a ship have to carry per cubic-meter of its volume to become a carrier?

 

that's right!!!thanks for helping me. That's why I don't think the venator's primairy function is a carrier. That it carries fighters doesn't make it a carrier

 

I think the Venator is a carrier/destroyer hybrid with a heavy slant towards carrier. Ultimately, it probably a light to medium destroyer.

 

um......

The VSDs also surprised them, remember that

the guns on the Venerator weren't firing at full power, I believe