Confused about Jedi and Seperatist slaughter

Ah, that's better. At first I thought he was doing it all for Padme, but now I know he thinks the jedi are evil too, even if that's not exactly why he killed them all in the temple. Yep, cause it just wouldn't make sense if it was ALL for Padme.

 

If Anakin is consumed by the Dark Side then he would not be crying after the slaughter and he would not be doing his silly ?Noooo!? He would be a cold, evil killing machine.

In fact, it seems like the Dark Side is not all that seductive. Every time Anakin had to make a tough decision while he was descending, he was torn. He expresses remorse over his psychopathic behavior. So he really was not all that ?consumed? at all.

 

That's the whole point. There's still good in Anakin. It was never completely gone as Yoda and Obi-wan though. Anakin's evil as Vader, but there's always the good deep down inside of him. It just got buried until Luke brought it back.

The two Star Wars trilogies share many characters but have different structures. Instead of telling another heroic coming-of-age story, Lucas has crafted the prequels a historical drama, at whose center is Anakin Skywalker. His story is tragic; that of the Republic-turned-Empire, uncomfortably familiar. Anakin begins as a nine-year-old boy who is physically enslaved. He ends the prequel saga a spiritual and mental slave to the Emperor, who is his metaphorical if not biological father....

But the end of Revenge of the Sith is not the end of Anakin, whose story really closes when it merges with those of his children, Luke and Leia, in Return of the Jedi.

"It really has to do with learning," Lucas says, "Children teach you compassion. They teach you to love unconditionally. Anakin can't be redeemed for all the pain and suffering he's caused. He doesn't right the wrongs, but he stops the horror. The end of the Saga is simply Anakin saying, I care about this person, regardless of what it means to me. I will throw away everything that I have, everything that I've grown to love- primarily the Emperor- and throw away my life, to save this person. And I'm doing it because he has faith in me; he loves me despite all the horrible things I've done. I broke his mother's heart, but he still cares about me, and I can't let that die. Anakin is very different in the end. The thing of it is: The prophecy was right. Anakin was the chosen one, and he does bring balance to the Force. He takes the one ounce of good still left in him and destroys the Emperor out of compassion for his son."

Anakin Skywalker's final confrontation with the Emperor occurs during Luke's final confrontation with the Emperor, which compliments his father's dealings with the same man many years earlier, Indeed the life of the father and the life of the son are commentaries on each other.

"The Star Wars saga is like a symphony, which has recurring themes," he adds, "You have one theme orchestrated in a particular way and place, which then comes back orchestrated as a minor theme somewhere else. There are these little threads running through things that are constantly turning events on their head. You see two people confronting the same things, with different ends. It's a rhythm. I like the idea of seeing something from a different perspective. An advantage I have in this particular situation is that I have literally twelve hours to tell a story. It has the epic quality of following one person from the time he's nine years old to the time he dies. It's Anakin's story, but obviously there are many other characters in that story- his children, his best friend- and their stories carry through. So this isn't just a tune- it's a symphony. When you do it as a symphony, I think it actually becomes beautiful."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith, page 221

As he prepared for a larger role in Revenge of the Sith, McDiarmid noticed comparable references in not only other films and literature, but also historical moments where the lure of extreme political domination wreaked havoc across nations.

"The interesting thing about these movies is that they refer back to lots of cinematic influences," McDiarmid explains. "When my face changes in the film, my mind went back to the early silent movie of The Phantom of the Opera with Lon Chaney. In Revenge of the Sith, Anakin makes a Faustian pact with the devil, and I do everything I can to use him as raw material in every sense to become the best apprentice yet. So even when he's horribly savaged from the fight and it's not clear if he'll live, he's reborn as this Frankenstein monster. Sidious then realizes Vader will be an even greater asset because his humanity has been mechanized, which is exactly what happens to people when they are seduced by Fascism."

-

 

I have on last question. Does he really belive that the jedi are evil, or does he know better, and just try to tell himself they're evil to justify everything he has done?

 

He does really believe the Jedi are evil. First, he believed that there are some things about the Force that the Jedi are keeping secret from him. Second, he walked into Palpatine's office and saw Mace with his lightsaber at Palpatine's throat about to kill him, just like Palpatine told Anakin they would try to do.

In Anakin?s mind, because the Jedi were trying to take over the Republic and betray the Chancellor, they?re evil and are the enemy. Anakin wanted to stay with the Republic for two reasons. One, to save Padmè, and two, because it was the right thing to do his his mind. He didn't want to betray the Republic.

 

The whole SW saga is quite ironic really.

Anakin's born a slave, and he dies a slave.

That black, mechanical armour is nothing more than a cage to keep the wild beast contained.

 

Anakin's born a slave, and he dies a slave.

lol true in a certian point of veiw, He also never becomes a jedi master like he always wanted if he would of just stayed with the Jedi Order he would of been one in due time.

 

The reason is in the movie, and it is the ONLY reason needed to be given.

Sidious: "...Once you have killed all of the jedi in the temple, you will go to the mustafar system. Wipe out Viceroy Gunray and the Separatist leaders. Only then will you be strong enough with the darkside to save Padme"

Hence that is the basis for the entire movie and fall to the darkside, trying to find a way to save Padme.

Period. end of debate and speculation...

 

"The reason is in the movie, and it is the ONLY reason needed to be given.

Sidious: "...Once you have killed all of the jedi in the temple, you will go to the mustafar system. Wipe out Viceroy Gunray and the Separatist leaders. Only then will you be strong enough with the darkside to save Padme"

Hence that is the basis for the entire movie and fall to the darkside, trying to find a way to save Padme.

Period. end of debate and speculation..."

I really do love it when somebody puts me back in square one. I pretend you didn't post and Force-Keeper is right.

 

what about the line by sidious to anakin about the jedi coming to get him and the senators, i think anakin doesn't know about the plot by sidious, i think he really thinks the jedi have turned traitor

 

"Anakin's born a slave, and he dies a slave."

He didn't die a slave. He died being in charge of the ultimate weapon in the galaxy.

 

He didn't die in charge of anything. The ruler of his Empire was dead. the ultimate weapon was destroyed and he, himself was about to return to the light. He had no attachments, except Luke, at the time of his death. By having Luke pull off his mask, he proved that he, in fact, could now let go of everything that he had (something that he could not do for 40+years).

 

I meant that Darth Vader's a slave to the Dark Side and to a lesser extent, Palpatine.

He's not a bad person, he's a tortured soul. The Dark Side has enveloped him completely, and as a result he carries out diabolical acts.

Until Luke comes along, there is not a shred of Anakin left.

 

I know that Dooku turned to the Dark Side, but having read some of the novels, he was never really a good person anyway.

Anakin, on the other hand, was a good person. He was tricked into turning by Palpatine. I think that the film makes that pretty clear.

 

Anakin spent most of his life as a slave, but died as a free man. Anyway, it's all quite clear. Anakin thinks that the Jedi are evil thanks to Palpatine's machinations. Palpatine has played the Jedi and the Sith as being too similiar, only the difference is that the Jedi will oppose Palpatine and go after everyone that they'd suspect of being in league of him. Which means the Senate and particularly, Padme.

 

only the difference is that the Jedi will oppose Palpatine and go after everyone that they'd suspect of being in league of him. Which means the Senate and particularly, Padme.

Says who Padme ask Anakin to ask Palpatine to stop the fighting and let diplomacy resume.Also in the novel she specifically wants Kenobi to know about the rebellion's plan to remove palps from office or have him give up his emergency power. Also Mace said in the movie the Senate will decide your fate and Palps shoots back and said I am the Senate.

 

Ki-Adi- Mundi: "If the Chancellor does not give up his emergency powers after the destuction of General Grievous - then he should be removed from office."

Mace: "The Jedi will have to control the Senate to ensure a peaceful transition."

Yoda: "A dark line of thinking this trajectory takes us." (Yoda advices caution)


It seems that Anakin wanted Palps arrested not killed. Anakin had to have seen the dead Jedi and already knows that Palp is a Sith lord. At this point, he is still with the Jedi. A apprehended Palp allows Anakin (he hopes) the chance to learn the secret to save Padme's life. Mace's actions forces him to choose. A fatefull decision is made. Later, Anakin would lie to himself and Padme about the Evil Jedi allowing his new point of view to placate his guilty actions.

Yes, the Jedi moved against Palp, and had plans for the Senate; but Palp is a Sith lord. At some early point, Anakin must have realized Palp was behind the War, Dooku, the separatist, but chooses to follow Palp for Padme. After Mace's death, he has no choice: the die is cast. Durring his transition, he allows all his ill will against the Jedi to fuel his betrayal: mother's death, slow development, Master's ranking, etc. Ankain's acts are evil and the good in him slowly dies: hence the emotions wittnessed during Anakin's slide. By the time Padme reaches Mustafar, Anakin has become twisted.

IMO, I think the writing could have been better. Maybe the novel does a better job. I've read about the 2000 protest petition (the seed for the rebellion). Can somebody explain how Anakin reconciles this act (as Padme is one of the signatures) with Palp and Padme. Where in the time-line does this occur? I would assume after "Go & make that kind of request/motion in the Senate where it belongs" but before the Mace incident.

 

So just to be sure, Anakin thinks the jedi are evil, but that'snot exactly why he kills thme.

 

No, he kills them largely to keep Palpatine alive, so he can save Padme.


"You almost come a second too late. You're rushing over to make sure that nothing happens-but your anticipation is that they're going to hurt each other, When the lightning starts things are going from bad to worse from your point of view. And when Mace is going to kill him, you have to act."

"Try and increase how uncomfortable you feel as the shot goes on. Try to think back on the Darth Plagueis story-run that through your head. Take it one step further: you realize that by telling the Jedi about Palpatine being a Sith that Padme is going to die. Baiscally, you just killed her."

--George Lucas To Hayden Christensen, The Making Of ROTS, Page 204.

"Mace was going to do the right thing by arresting him, but after Palpatine does the lightning, he changes his mind."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS, Page 204.

"There's always this good in you. And the good part is saying 'what am I doing?'. Then the bad part kicks in and says 'I'm doing this for Padme, I'm doing this for the galaxy and so we can have a better life'. But the good part is always saying 'WHAT AM I DOING?!"

--George Lucas to Hayden Christensen, Hyperspace webdoc.

"He has a black irredeemable heart," McDiarmid says of Palpatine. "There's nothing that can be said about him that's good. When we first saw Vader in the original trilogy we thought he was the heart of darkness, and nobody could be darker. But now we understand what happened to him. And one of the exciting things about seeing this movie is that you can follow Vader through Anakin's journey every step of the way even if you don't agree with the choices he's making. In part his decisions stem from his traumatic childhood, and his impatient lust for power. And it's that which my character takes and then uses again him."

--Ian McDirmaid, Homing Beacon interview, 2005.

It's after that, that Anakin becomes convinced that the Jedi are evil.

 

But that's confusing me more, if Anakin didn't think the jedi were evil when he killed them all in ROTS, then why would he think they're evil latter? Nothing new had happened. You could say he tryed to convince himself they're evil to justify all that he'd done, but Force-Keeper said he didn't need to convince himself. He truely thought they were evil. So could you explain that Sinister?

 

Well, that's my opinion, Shredder. I don't think Anakin try?s to convince himself that the Jedi are evil to justify what he's doing. I think he believes that they are evil once he sees Mace with his lightsaber at Palpatine's neck about to kill him. It's at that moment Anakin sees that even though Palpatine is a bad guy, he's right. But as we all know, Anakin was "deceived by a lie".

So, now there are two reasons for the turn to the Dark Side and the Jedi slaughter.

1) (Main reason) Padme's life.

2) Anakin has seen that Palpatine was right about the Jedi all along. They lied to him, they kept things about the Force secret from him, and they didn't trust him.

 

Anakin thinks that it's wrong for Mace to kill Palpatine, which he protests to the Korun Jedi Master. But then Anakin resorts to attacking Mace only because he's about to terminate Palpatine, which will in turn kill Padme. After that, Palpatine pretty much says that they will come for them and will try to finish what the Jedi Posse started. By then, Anakin agrees that they're evil and thus uses that as a justification of attacking the Temple. But in those few moments where he has to decide what to do, Anakin's not concerned about traitors or good and evil. All he's concerned about is saving Padme.

 

Not sure if this is mentioned above, just scanned through, but after anakin kills mace, palps says to him. "i believe you are the only one with no knowledge of this plot. when the jedi learn of what has transpired here they will kill us both. their next move will be against the senete"

To which anakin agree's. Then palps sends him to wipe them out, before this happens.

 

it doesnt make sense that he goes on killing all the separatists. you just have to accept the good storytelling here.

But I think that we all have to stand back and look in. because in the end its just a movie. This stuff didnt really happen. So there has to be some separation between reality and good writen Sci-fi.

which is why I love LUcas, he always leaves something for the viewer to think about. stuff like this. makes for a good conversation, but remember its only a movie. A star Wars movie. It all came from lucas's mind.

 

Killing the Separatists does not make sense?

Sure it does:

1) Killing them ends the war.
2) Placing the Jedi as traitors means Palpatine gets the credit for winning the war.
3) Killing them severs all ties between 'Sidious' and the Separatists.
4) With the devastation of war over, The Emperor can now use the army built up and the revenues being generated to placate soverign systems or subjugate them as he sees fit. If there still was a war on, he would have less available resources.