Books CRUCIBLE by Troy Denning: The Official Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I don't Luke is that big of a Jerk...

 

Think of it like this- she was already sort of dating Anakin before Ben was born. At the very least she was running around on Yavin, barefoot because it was such a cool planet after Tatooine, before Ben was even born. That's how big an age gap it is.

And that's not even going into how creepy it is that your late cousin's girlfriend/probable future wife if he had survived was trying to seduce him. Just having a 14 year old in danger of being tortured is already a bit much for me. Sure, RotS had younglings being murdered by Anakin but at least that was off-screen, its not like even annoying little 10-year old Annie had to see his mother's brutalized body. But that's just the way Denning writes (Ben was stuck in an Embrace of Pain in Inferno, so after that on to more torture).

Tahiri's character was... um, I can barely remember Tahiri was in this book. Even Ben wasn't that memorable, mostly I remember that even Vestara was afraid of fighting him again as Ben knew how she thought.

About the Jedi training part, the reactions were sort of in character, but still, kicking someone out who is already mostly trained and has shown anger problems seems to just be asking for future trouble. Especially with the Tribe probably looking for more recruits and we know the One Sith are doing the same thing already. Just seems kind of funny that a prospective Knight has reached that far with that huge a problem already. And its just depressing that they're almost ready to take anyone who knows how to handle a lightsaber because they're that badly in need of fighters with so many threats still left (such as probably hundreds of Tribe Sith left not to mention Abeloth). You'd think the NJO war would have been bad enough for a young New Jedi Order, but while this book at least didn't kill any more Jedi (I'm half surprised Ohali survived, at least I think she did), things still look grim.

One of the few things I liked was that Luke (at least I think it was Luke) didn't expect to find the Mortis monolith after only a year of searching, that it would be too convenient... but then the galaxy often survives due to such coincidences, but at least it shows awareness of just how unlikely findining Mortis should be.

They didn't mention the other Quest Knights did they? I forget if they even mentioned much about them other than "go find Mortis", such as whether they were all historians, good trackers, etc. Ohali appeared a few times, but it was mostly mixed up in the torture sabacc, warnings about the monolith they had already found, and trying to figure out what to do with "Ditto"....

 

I agree with all those points, but also know that if Del Rey had gone that way there would be even more people complaining that the stories:

• Weren't threatening the galaxy, so not as much interest
• No big wars, not as fun
• Too many characters other than Luke/Leia/Han, that's what people want to see

Not too mention a lot less casual fans, and more serious fans, would buy the books if they weren't revolving around the movie characters and had galaxy-threatening plots.
I would love to read all these books about minor EU characters but it's obviously not feasible. So I wouldn't say Del Rey the authors made a mistake in that regard, it's just the nature of the beast.
They made plenty of other mistakes though, for example the general post-NJO story arc (Jacen dark side and dying) and even worse, hiring Karen Traviss.

 

I always felt the Mortis stuff was crammed in as a likely explanation for Abeloth and that they really didnt know how the series was going to turn out until the 5th or 6th book.

 

In the Star Wars Action News interview with Denning, he admits that the idea wasn't brought up until halfway into the series. I honestly don't think it was something they considered until he started writing Apocalypse. It's such poor storytelling. Instead of piddling around with the Abeloth plot from Vortex - Ascension, incorporate the Mortis stuff into the final four novels and have them search for the dagger instead of chase Abeloth! It wouldn't surprise me though if they decided that the dagger storyline was worth saving for a future series and instead to eliminate any sort of definitive conclusion to the Abeloth plot for Fate of the Jedi and instead just go through the motions with it until Apocalypse, considering they seem to enjoy leaving things unresolved.

 

See? Urgh. Dont start a series until you know the ending, sure you can just let the characters take over but then its a mess.

 

I guess my issue is how I was introduced to the EU. While most of you have issues with characterization or development of characters, I dont. I think this is because the first series I really read was FOTJ. I had read TTT and few others as a kid, but that was about it. So my first "real" experience with the EU came from FOTJ. While I have read tons since then, it was still my initial glimpse. So I dont catch on a lot of the issues that others see. Not sure if that makes any sense lol.

 

I don't think the characters take over any of these stories considering that their actions are driven by plot (or lack thereof) rather than characterization.

 

But there basically is no plot if you have no ending. Its not building to anything, it just...is...

And Chewbacca89, did you like FOTJ?

 

Well, that is the fundamental flaw of Fate of the Jedi. It had no planning at all. At the end of Abyss, Vestara escapes Ben and Luke. Backlash is spent on Dathomir trying to capture her, which they are ultimately successful at in the conclusion. The next book starts with her captured. The novel Backlash can be dropped from the series, especially considering that as I recall, the Han and Leia side of the plot involved them going to Dathomir as well with Allana, and whatever minor stuff Jaina and others do could have easily fit into either Abyss or Allies.

There was no plotting out these novels at all.

 

I loved it. Read them all in about a 5 month period.

 

Maybe thats why, has anyone read it in succession? With me I had to wait the 6-7 months in between each book. So maybe thats why, I just dont know if I want to re read that series, so many dumb plot lines.

 

Yea I started Outcast in Jan of 2012 and finished with Apocalypse in May of 2012.

 

I will forever pity those who were introduced to Star Wars or at least the EU by the post-NJO, they believe its great when they have no idea what it destroys and blatantly ignores.

 

FOTJ is a pretty good series overall, even if it doesn't flow at times. Denning and Allston are brilliant authors, Golden is absolutely terrible but the series is still readable as a whole.

That makes no sense

Personally I pity those who have nothing better to do but come online and constantly complain

 

Thanks for the pity?

 

Denning and Allston I can take, Ill take Allston over Denning though. And would you rather have Traviss instead of Golden?

But Id rather have a cohesive trilogy by one author than a nine book series by three.

 

Traviss is a good writer, she just goes full potato when it comes to Star Wars. I would probably take her over Golden too though, and that is saying something.

 

Haven't read Traviss but I enjoyed Golden...

 

I love her Republic Commando books, you must read those, good stuff. And lets keep it civil with anything Traviss, just gonna put that out there in case, I dont wanna start anything.

 

Depends on your tastes. I struggle with the more youth-oriented simplistic plots and writing style.

 

It's called "having an opinion".

I for one didn't get into EU until midway NJO, and I can believe NJO and the EU onwards can have its great moments while at the same time appreciating the Bantam era.

You fandoms and your inability to find a neutral ground. With your line of logic, you might as well say that you forever pity those introduced to Star Wars movies by the prequels. And lord knows we need ANOTHER prequel debate on top of all the discussion here.

 

I really enjoy the Bantam books too. I read TTT, Hand of Thrawn, and SQ when I was younger. Just didn't get into the EU heavily until recently...

 

You don't have to be defensive, you're one of the only sensible people here

 

I am sorry that I seemingly constantly complain, but I feel like I can barely continue to be a Star Wars fan anymore. The post-OT is basically dead to me after the NJO and the Clone Wars have been completely rewritten by TCW for no reason, so save a few novels, I have basically lost my interest in Star Wars, and this novel just personifies how bad things have gotten.