ST Daisy Ridley (Rey) in Episode IX

I've read all your responses and everyone has valid points... but try as I might, I can't rationalize Rey's arc in TLJ and I expect that was one of the larger difficulties in writing Episode IX, along with the Leia dilemma. Then again, the fact that I have to put so much effort into understanding her motivations as a person is a problem all by itself.

 

Ha. I can’t say I’m a huge fan of the theory either but I could see them going that route.

I guess one way to look at is that it’s not about Kylo being mean to her but rather that her worst fears have seemingly coming true.

 

The dark side mirror, in my opinion, showed Rey her deepest desire. It is directly related to what makes her most vulnerable to turning to the dark side. She saw shapes resembling a man and a woman standing side by side. These shapes looked a lot like Han and Leia to me. She knows who her actual parents were, and what they did to her, so my thought is this scene symbolizes her wish that the Solos/Skywalkers were her real family. This is her greatest temptation and weakness, and it was reflected back to her in the mirror. The two shapes came together to form what looked a lot like Kylo Ren, who as we know will use her painful past to tempt her into joining him. When the darkness cleared from the mirror, she saw herself alone because the truth is that she has no parents. This revelation broke her emotionally because she knew it was true. It ties in with the memory of being abandoned and having to raise herself. I believe what she saw in the mirror was a warning about holding on to the past when there is nothing there for her.

 

She just had an encounter with the Dark Side. What the hell is Chewie going to tell her about that?

 

Rrrrraaarrrrrr

 

While munching the tasty flesh of dead space-puffin.

 

Well, in the novelization she turned to Kylo after her dark cave experience because in her mind he was the only one who would understand because of their shared loneliness and when she found him on the stone bench right next to her, close enough to touch, she felt relief surge through her.

 

Well... she's still gonna angst over the bad choices of the boy she may or may not have feelings for. And she's gonna be in trouble with the Resistance when they find out she's been cozying up to Kylo. She's gonna clash with Poe over this. So basically a lot of Kylo drama.

You can print this post out and come back to me on December 20.

 

If we're to believe that the mirror shows ones deepest desire and not necessarily the truth why would Rey, a full grown woman, have a deep desire be to be the daughter of some people she only just met a few days ago and only spent a few hours with? I understand that she likes Han and Leia but she barely knows them. She developed a deep desire for these two people she barely knows to be her parents? If so Rey's a cheap date, so to speak. If you're nice to her and old enough to be her parents she's instantly desperate for you to be her mom and dad! "I'll take anyone! Anyone! Anyone is better than my crap parents who I can't remember but I guess I can remember because the memory of how horrible they were fuels my need to find replacement parents!"

Also you say that Rey knows who her parents were but I thought Rey was supposed to be in denial about her crap parents, i.e. she doesn't consciously remember that they were horrible people. So...the mirror see's that she's in denial and gives her the wish fulfillment answer she wants to see but not really because the image is all blurry and it turns in to a reflection of herself which is supposed to be reminder that she's been on her own for years? When did she forget that? Rey knows that her parents weren't in her life for years, that she has has no parents for a long time. She's not in denial about that. The mirror didn't reveal this to her and she wasn't emotionally broken by it. At most that scene ends with Rey frustrated that the mirror didn't clarify anything for her.

The problem with trying to understand the mirror scene is that Rian Johnson created it as a visual idea first and foremost. He just thought it would look cool if his movie had a scene where Rey sees a zillion reflections of herself. That was his starting point. From there he reverse engineered what it was supposed to mean but then also left the explanation purposely vague and open ended. In a way the mirror scene is less about giving us helpful information and more about reintroducing the parentage question to juice up our expectations for the reveal (or anti-reveal) in Act III. This kind of thing happens in stories all the time.

 

There's no big mystery or inconsistency--Leia gave Rey a very specific mission: bring back Luke and thereby save the Resistance. Luke balks, and Kylo Ren and his potential to turn represented a viable alternative route to victory. Her desire to complete her mission, coupled with some feelings of pity for a broken young man, do not mean she likes him. You can hate someone, but still use them--and even feel sorry for them while you're doing it.

 

RJ actually said that the mirror scene was for Rey the same than what Dagobah cave was for Luke: a place where she would see her biggest fear; her biggest fear is to be all by herself, so that's what she sees... Nothing groundbreaking here, except she doesn't have Yoda to explain to her what she just saw.

And as why Rey doesn't turn to Chewie instead of Kylo, well... Chewie is adorable and would certainly give her a hug, but I'm not sure that he could have a deep understanding of what's she going through? Besides, it would be cool to remember that Rey doesn't "turn to Kylo": he happens to be present at this right moment: she hasn't called to him, he hasn't either, so she certainly believes that the Force has reunited them at this moment for a specific reason. Kylo knows the Dark Side, that's for sure. Luke knows it too but doesn't seem to care much for her; on Dagobah, he had Yoda to turn to when he went out of the cave!

Sure, it would have been more realistic if RJ had shown her being reluctant to talk with him first: he obviously speeeded up their relationship in his movie so he could make room for his silly Canto Bight scene, and the result is something very superficial. But the fact that Snoke is apparently behind all this explains why she found Kylo at this exact moment: what better moment for connecting them than when Rey steps of a cave representing the Dark Side?

 

She was opening up about her loneliness and her desire for her family. She didn’t ask Kylo about the dark side. This is a non-point.

She went from Kylo emotionlessly telling her to kill the past like he murdered his father, to choosing him as the person to open up to intimately. So far you’ve offered as explanations:

1. Luke was a douche - hmmm, douche or own torturer while there’s an actual friend nearby that’s neither of those things? Tricky....

2. She was talking about the force! (No it didn’t come up in the dialogue)

3. They felt comraderie in their loneliness, which you could derive from their facial expressions, while Kylo justified murdering his father emotionlessly. Obviously I’m not going to agree to write that into their facial expressions lol. I think it’s nonsensical with the actual content of their conversation.

I’m still waiting for what changed in Rey toward Kylo between those two scenes.

Yeah novelizations are fun and all, but this wasn’t in the movie. Regardless, the idea that Rey felt relief to see the guy that just emotionlessly justified murdering his loving father while she watched two days ago in that moment in time is basically my whole point. It’s absurd as characterization. Rey has none.

 

Yea, that's what I've been saying all thread. I guess Jason Fry and I have the same read on that scene.

 

Ben's "Kill the past" speech is what prompts Rey to dive into the dark side cave and confront her fears.

How many times does this need to be stated? You continue to ask this question and choose to dismiss the clear evidence presented to you. So, what changed in Rey? What transpired in the scenes between Ben telling Rey to "kill the past" and the scene where they touched? What trauma did Rey experience? How did that experience make her feel? Vulnerable, desperate, lonelier than she ever felt before. You are under this strange impression that people (or fictional characters) are supposed to be perfect moral actors. You may not "approve" of Rey's choice to speak to Ben about her feelings, but the movie gives ample reason to understand the emotions that led her there.

And I just saw your edit about her not having characterization. What I just described above is the very definition of characterization.

 

What does this have to do with choosing him as the person to open up to?

I don’t really understand your point. Did she seriously take advice from the guy that told her to kill the past like he murdered his dad, or was she rebuffing his advice by trying to face her past? Cause if she took his advice in that context, wow that’s even worse for her characterization.

It has nothing to do with approval. I’m talking about characterization, a basic tenet of storytelling. Audience members need to know why characters make choices they make. You’re telling me Rey opened up about her yearning for her parents to her own torturer that justifies murdering his loving father heartlessly just because she’s lonely. That is not characterization. It doesn’t make sense. That’s not a human thing to do. This isn’t about morality. This is about simple reason, normal logic.

There’s almost none to support this behavior. You haven’t touched on the only explanation that I have ever thought might work, except RJ was too focused on Reylo to put it in, which is that Rey was coming dangerously close to falling to the dark side. Therefore, there was something appealing to her personally in this monster that was courageous enough to do something despicable for his own peace of mind.

 

It doesn't sound like you've spent a lot of time around humans, because human beings make all kinds of irrational decisions when they're hurting emotionally.

 

I spend a lot of time with other humans around and they do not make that kind of irrational decisions. I cannot even imagine one of them keeping contact to someone who murdered his dad the day before (in front of their eyes) - not to talk about having in depth talks with them.

 

You have the total capability then to stop yelling. To yell or not, the choice is one's own. And I don't know why Rey IX thread is the "yell about Rey in TLJ thread."

 

It's far easier to accept this when it comes to Marvel characters - grown up "super heroes" in cartoon clothes, but not when it comes to people who stood for depth like Yoda, Obi Wan, Leia or Luke

Look at the last couple of pages.

 

I’ve been around lots of humans that have been hurt and violated by other humans. That hurt plays a role in the choices they make toward that person pretty universally. People generally only make self-destructive choices toward people that hurt them when they are already emotionally invested, something Rey isn’t with Kylo.

I’ve also been around a lot of people opening up about private insecurities. People tend to look for people they trust, that they think would understand, to open up to. Rey neither has any reason to trust Kylo, nor could he possibly understand, given literally in their last conversation he expressed the exact opposite sentiment.

 

I think this is exactly right and why I don't have much of a problem with Rey going to Kylo. She's desperate to save her friends and looks at Kylo as a way to end the war. Was it naive of Rey to think that she could pull this off? Yeah I think one could argue that. One could also argue that Rey knew it was a million to one shot that she could redeem Kylo but she also felt like the Resistance didn't have any other options.

Cue up somebody saying, "they did have another option! They could've done the Holdo maneuver from the beginning" or something else along those lines.

 

I made a list like my mom told me many decades ago and I must honesty say the only two reasons I can see Rey having anything remotely to do with Kylo are the following: He did look toasty hot and all without a shirt and the force connection thingy we don't really understand yet. Am I missing something or is that a pretty slim list to have interest in a guy? Note to self, I am out of touch perhaps?