Darth Bane Rule of Two. Bane's behavior when making a holocron

Holy cow what a moron he was when he was trying to make his own holocron. How he never knew about a freakin capstone I'm just shocked. All that time he was having hissy fits about trying to find the so called secret

 

Sith Holocrons are abominably hard to construct, as far as I understand Bane was the last Sith of his line to construct one, as Palpsy didn't know how.

And the art had been lost remember, everyone but Bane thought that what the old Sith did was not worth knowing.

 

Well how hard is it to find a freakin capstone anyway?

Just reading the few chapters left of Bane having hissy fits of trying to make his own holocron is like watching someone trying to fix a freaking VCR or something and then they start having their fits

 

Ok, can you fix a VCR? Do you know where to find a videotape read/write head? Most likely not. In the context of the Star Wars universe, a better example would be, do you know how to fix the IBM Automatic Sequence Controlled Calculator? Would you be able to find the reader that would interpret punchcard tapes?. No? That's because its really old, and nobody knows how to work it or build it anymore. That's what Bane went through when trying to build a holocron. Nobody had a manual sitting around that told him exactly what to do.

 

According to Jedi vs. Sith Guide to the Force,

Palpatine constructed a holocron.

 

Did he construct one, or did he just add a gatekeeper avatar to the preexisting Telos holocron?

Not that I doubt he could make a holocron if he wanted to. I mean, if Krayt could do it...

 

The latter.

 

Not only were the secrets lost, but the Orbalisks (tiny crustaceans attached to his body, feeding off of his dark side energy) had a lot to do with the mindless fury he fell into when he was unsuccessful. Because he had exerted too much dark power when creating the matrix, gatekeeper, etc., the orbalisks were not able to feed off of him and get the proper amount of power (which they thrived on). When that happened, they released some sort of toxin (if I remember correctly) which induced a wave of fury, which in turn fed them the power they needed to continue living, throwing Bane into a fit.

Had he not been infested with the orbalisks, that probably never would have happened---and he also might not have had enough power to get as far as he did with the holocron in Rule of Two.

 

I don't know what a capstone is. Does that make me a moron? Lay off the bald one, he's doing his best.

 

The capstone is what keeps it all together and stops it from degrading. Bane didn't know this until he saw Belia's holocron on Typhon and after that we was a little busy.

This is one of the things I want to see in the third Bane novel.

 

What will mystify me is if Zannah doesn't/didn't learn how.
Seeing how her Master obsessed over it, I would like to think she was the smart one and at least took some good mental notes. With her affinity for the Force, I would guess that something intricate and detailed would appeal to her. Also, her Mastery of Sith Sorcery would need to be recorded for future Sith Lords. ((So her power would not be lost.)) <--That wouldn't be a worthy point if Bane hadn't been clear about different Sith having different talents.

 

I expect Bane will just die before Zannah learns the secret.

Whether Zannah is the cause of his death remains to be seen, though I wouldn't rule it out. While she is intelligent and highly manipulative, she is also prone to rash decisions she later regrets; and while she turned down the chance at the end of RoT, faced with another opportunity to kill Bane, I doubt she would pass it up without a good reason, and may feel not knowing how to create a holocron is not much of a loss if by that stage he has already taught her everything else.

That said, it may be Zannah is not actually the one who bring about Bane's premature end. If Bane #3 elaborates on the Jedi Order's knowledge of the "fall of Darth Bane" beyond just saying they thought it was Darovit, it may be that Bane is actually killed before he can complete Zannah's training, in effect setting the Sith Order back a thousand years.

Personally I'd like to see Bane become the "power behind the chancellorship", but be discovered and defeated. We've already seen him set up a wide network of contacts in RoT, and we know the Jedi assumed the Sith Lord would be one of Palpatine's advisors, so it would be fun to see a precedent in Bane that explained them jumping to that assumption.

 

well remember the Darth Bane books take place a 1000 years before Palpatine and the Star Wars movies but Im sure you already know that

 

That would suck.

She was also quite shrewd... I doubt the holocron issue would be a moot point to her.

I think she's been well trained already, and probably not that far away from being capable/able to make her own move against him...

I'm hoping for a straight-up showdown. No killing in the sleep, no letting the jedi handle your business... I want her to TAKE the mantle of Dark Lord(Lady) of the Sith from his still-warm grasp.

If for nothing else than to actually see a Sith Apprentice SURPASS the Sith Master.

Something close to this:
"Your brute/raw power is no match for my understanding of the Dark Side"

 

I'm torn to be honest. While it'd be cool to see the apprentice surpass the Master, Zannah's strengths were not in her raw power, but in her subtly. Personally, I still don't feel she could best Bane in a duel, it just isn't her forte. I find it more likely she'd set him up, hoping to usurp his authority as Republic puppet master, only to have it backfire and Bane's Republic coup come crashing down with him.

Not that I wouldn't mind a duel, as ultimately power levels usually work for the plot, not the other way around, but as things are I see her more as a plotter than a duellist. And while fictionally I see no reason why she, as the superior sorceress, could not screw with Bane's mind to win a duel... there is something too "going out like a chump" about Bane just losing because she was having him see things.

With how Bane is hailed as if he were the greatest before Palpatine, I often wonder whether the Order genuinely progressed and grew more powerful with each subsequent Dark Lord, or if Bane was in a league of his own, and something -- be it Zannah or someone later -- screwed things up and set the Order's plans back a millenia. It may well have been, say, Darth Millennial (ironic if that was the case...) not Zannah, but either way I expect there to be one betrayal of Bane's beliefs that undoes his hard work.

 

We are of like mind on this, as I was suggesting something along the same lines with my fan-quote about her knowledge of the darkside. We all know that face to face, saber to saber, Bane will destroy her...

Seeing her stand there in spite of that, and openly display her mastery of the Force would be a SW moment for sure. She doesn't have to take him out chump style, but having her flip the lessons learned back at her Master would be priceless.

Having Millennial screw it up works fine for me, as long as that doesn't detract from Bane's or Zannah's story.

 

Zannah did realise how important the holocron was to Bane, that was why she had that whole betrayal thing to begin with.

She may have one and we just don't know about it.

 

Thinking about it, maybe Zannah actually doesn't NEED to learn how? The whole point of Banes teaching is that the Sith need to stop stabbing each other in the back... Perhaps he felt ensuring only HIS teachings survived would ensure he was remembered, not overwritten by a future upstart? The former reasons for Sith to keep making new holocrons were either to preserve their spirits (a technique presumably lost) or as a self ego trip because past teachings were believed redundant - or had been lost or stolen. Could Bane have meant to create a new "master holocron" that only the Master held, and that was to be safeguarded at any cost, not manhandled and misplaced as if it were easily replaced with a new one?

It may be Bane only passed the knowledge of how to imbed an additional gatekeeper, not the secret of how to forge a new capstone in order to create other holocrons. Even if he hadn't intended to establish himself as the eternal voice of Sith Lore, he may simply have believed 1. That his teachings were perfect and needed no further improvement, and - even more importantly - 2. that the idea was for the Sith to remain hidden. One Master, one apprentice... And one holocron. It wouldn't be very "secret" to be littering the Galaxy with dozens of more holocrons. Bane went around destroying the old ones, maybe he didn't want to repeat the mistakes of the past by leaving Sith holocrons lying all around the Galaxy? It could explain the abscence of things like the "tomb of Darth Bane". Zannah was the only legacy he needed.

Could the Telos Holocron be Bane's? I've a feeling some of it's gatekeepers were too old though... and it'd need to be explained how Krayt got it after the Jedi had it.

 

Yes.

I know we've discussed this before, so this isn't really necessary, but a thousandtimes yes.

 

I take this to mean: 'eliminate their self-destructive ways as a whole.' If so, then I concur with mucho gusto!

Oh, 'Ol Triple S likes this... one source of knowledge, authored by many over a millenia. No wonder the Jedi had 'forgeries' in the Temple...

Indeed. One to embody power, the other to crave it. With each Apprentice, their Master's legacy lives on through them... but only if they truly surpassed their former mentor.

That needs some esplainin, no matter what.

 

Interestingly, Wookieepedia states the following, which seems to support the notion of the Banite Sith only maintaining one holocron:

Does anybody know what the source for that particular statement is?

I really do like the idea of a Sith "Great Holocron".

 

Wasn't that from the NEGTF?

 

Dark Lord said that there were true Bane-era holocrons plural, and that Palpatine had them.

 

Did Plagueis have one? Possibly Luceno was going to tell us that in the cancelled novel.

*whinges again about no Plageuis novel*

 

I could quite easily see that ending up being taken from a slightly different perspective of the line having merely been referring to multiple holocron gatekeepers plural.