Full Series Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir

DaddlerTheDalek

Please use spoiler tags when talking about you know who outside of the two spoilers allowed threads.

 

Oops. Sorry about that.

 

It's fine.

 

It did though

 

Yeah I've been trying to to find as well, with no success so far

 

I think he meant Sidious himself killing Talzin rather than Grievous coming up from behind . Talzin allowed herself to be killed to save Maul, was very much like a dark side version of Kenobi saving Luke in ANH . Self sacrifice, a selfless act uncommon to Dark Siders as even Maul was willing to let Talzin absorb his life force so she would be strong enough to destroy Sidious. Had Talzin had she been at full strength she would destroyed both Sidious and Dooku.

 

She would not have beaten Sidious, let alone both. IMO

 

She still could've put up a decent fight. IMO, they deliberately put her at a disadvantage to explain why she would fall so easily. Sidious alone vs. Talzin would've been a more epic fight than Sidious vs. Yoda was in ROTS.

 

I think Sidious, Talzin, Yoda, and Mace are all at roughly the same level. Below the Mortis people/Force priestesses/Luke but above everyone else.

At least, until we see what Snoke can do.

 

I don't think Talzin was on the level of Yoda or Sidious. True, she was powerful and perhaps even stronger than some jedi masters but I'd say she would stand no chance in a one on one fight with the mightiest of the jedi and the sith respectively.

 

Maybe it's the novelization, maybe it's the few scenes we see of him in TCW, but outside of those, I can't see how Windu is automatically assumed to be in the same level as Sidious, Talzin, and Yoda. All we see him doing in the PT is wield a lightsaber, which is something a padawan can do, right?

 

Oh I agree. I just think she is more powerful than say Ki-Adi-Mundi but less so than the four I mentioned. If we are including Legends then that would add even more to the discussion.

 

Still think it's unfair to suggest Windu that much more powerful than Talzin. If he was, this wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

 

Well, he was the finest swordsman in the history of the jedi order. I'd say he was on the level of Sidious and Yoda or somewhere very close being able to defeat both depending on the circumstances of the encounter.

 

I don't think Talzin can be killed by lightsaber though, she can turn into an intangible form whenever she wants. Sidious shut his saber when he faced with Talzin, only after he beat her with lightning, she has been killed by Grievous.

 

But that's what I'm saying. If she were alone with Sidious, and she couldn't be defeated by a lightsaber, how would he have gotten her; without the sneak-attack by Grievous?

 

She was obviously on the same level or greater than Sidious and she displayed diverse powers and abilities, he no where demonstrated a greater level of power. He and other Force users are of unlimited power however. Talzin burns out've energy, so in that sense he was more powerful but thats basically it. She was able to do stuff Sidious was not shown or implied ever to do. If he had would've won against her or Yoda whereas Yoda was too strong for him and even Windu squarely defeated Sidious. Sidious main move is Force Lightning and lightsaber body twirl. She was in a weakened state after she formed and did not have enough time to regain full strength, the process left her in a weak . Despite all that she fended off both Sidious and Dooku's force storms. Talzin refused Maul's life force, where its implied had she absorbed it she would've turned Sidous and Dooku to ash quite clearly in the storyline. Talzin held her own against Windu saber to saber, if Windu was more powerful he would not of needed a lightaber. They looked evenly matched with swords. Whereas Sidous and Windu it was clear Windu was better skilled than Sidious and physically stronger. Sidious' lightning was rendered useless, he needed Anakin to bail him out've that spot and to get an opening blast. The saber battle between Talzin using Dooku's body was very brief, and Dooku could've been resisting her as he was able to regain his strength shortly after she existed his body, so its obviously she did not complete the transformation and all of that.

Talzin however at this stage in the story of her unnatural life had limited power which was her major draw back and key element to her defeat . She needed the absorb the Force from others to gain power and manipulate the Force and to retain her corporeal body. She lived beyond death itself as she alone apparently had this knowledge, as she was quite ancient apparently. Sidious himself sought her out for Dark Side wisdom and he promised her she'd rule by his side as his right hand. But he betrayed her because she was not like her son Maul and himself, because Maul was a natural Force sensitive and immensely powerful and had thus unlimited potential.

In the end Maul's life was more important than the lives of Sidious, Dooku and Talzin herself in her eyes. We were told Maul has a great destiny to fulfill . Even the Mandalorians pulled Maul away from rushing back into the maelstrom to avenge his Mother's death as their leader was too important to lose. So Death Watch did not want Maul to die either, they were very loyal and there was long term plan Maul had in effect .

It is very likely its Maul that keeps the Sith Order from being extinct and only Sidious' Sith Order of two gets killed off. Had Maul and Talzin been victorious in SOD we would've seen a new order rise from the roots of Dathomir.

 

Exactly. The bottom line is that Sidious thought of Talzin as among his greatest threats; an entity that he knew he couldn't influence unlike any rogue Jedi (Dooku, Ventress, Anakin, etc.)

 

It strikes me as odd that some don't consider Talzin on par with other Force users of the highest levels, when everything we've seen, read, and have been told about her is quite the opposite. No single Jedi was as much a threat to Sidious as she. Sidious required Dooku and Grievous to stop her - he wasn't able to do it alone. Not only were they at least equal in power - he brought and required help because he knew her ability. She should be considered one of the most powerful characters in the saga. In some ways it would have been better if she allowed her sons sacrifice at the end of SOD. She likely would have killed everyone there and been able to rebuild Dathomir. Hopefully Maul will work to rebuild her legacy.

 

Was wondering when you'd chime in

I'd suggest Mother Talzin was my favorite antagonist (if you call her that) of the TCW series. A very interesting character indeed; and no question in my mind she had Palpy changing his diapers more than once.

 

Personally I think Sidious would emerge victorious in single combat with Talzin - there is, after all, a reason he is making waves to rule the galaxy and she is not. He's the biggest fish in the pond.

As for Talzin, she knows the Sith are out there, and she doesn't move against them until provoked because one does not pick a fight they believe they will lose. That said, Talzin is clearly a significant threat and one doesn't have to be individually more powerful to pose a threat to another's plans. That was always Talzin's main danger towards Sidious - not her one-on-one battle prowess, but her ability to manipulate, disrupt and possibly expose his greater plans for the galaxy. She probably caused more grief for the Sith through her meddling than the Jedi Council ever did during the Clone Wars.

As for Sidious bringing Dooku and Grievous along with him, that boils down to the simple fact that Sidious isn't a "play fair" type of guy. Talzin and Maul are no pushovers, powerful in their own right, and Sidious isn't looking for a fair fight. He wants the problem taken care of - so he brings along the big guns to do it.

 

Its possible he would have emerged the victor in 1 v 1 combat, but remember that Talzin was weakened just after being returned to her physical form, so she was certainly at a disadvantage, yet showed remarkable power. Had she been back to her full power, I think they would have cancelled each other out in 1 v 1 combat and caused mutual destruction. Had Talzin secured the living Force from the cult in the Lost Missions, I think it would have been game over for the Sith, because she would have had Mortis level power at that point.

 

It's because she is not a movie character.

 

Excuse me, I haven't read this book, but do we know what exactly happens to the darksabre? Does Maul still have it?

 

IIRC he never lost it so presumably he still has it.

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