PT Darth Maul: The dark side of expectations

In this instance an Old Head is anyone old enough to be following the mega hype leading up to The Phantom Menace. That’s mostly kids of the OT and then people old enough for the Special Editions. This is pre Prequel Kids Star Wars fans.

More directly it’s people old enough to check out The Force. Net in 1998 and 1999.

Old head is very open to interpretation.

It’s a problem for many many fandoms. I just had a real world friend text me he liked the newest Mando episode but didn’t like that most of the hour took the focus completely off Mando. Like it broke a rule doing that.

I was too young to have preconceived notions going into Return of the Jedi. But I was also old enough to be looking forward to it.

I was lucky in that my preconceived notion about the ST was Han, Luke, and Leia would die in the course of the trilogy. I didn’t want that to happen but felt that’s how Star Wars works.

The second trailer when Han Solo is giving an Obi-Wan Kenobi like speech. The same friend who text me about Mando today texted me ’Guess that means Han is dead.’

 

I'd argue not much more than Tarkin and Palpatine at the time.

 

Why would it only apply to "Old head Star wars fans"?
Are they the only ones that look at posters? That watch trailers?

Because posters can quite often given an idea how big a characters part in the film is.
Ex.




If someone looks at this poster and goes "Hmm, I wonder if the big blue guy has a prominent role? Nahh, three lines of dialogue and ten minutes screen time at most" Sound reasonable?

Look at the TPM posters.



Qui-Gon is quite prominent, bigger than Obi-Wan and Qui-Gons role in the film is quite bigger than Obi-Wans. Anakin is in the forefront, not as big as Qui-Gon but showing that he is an important character.
And where is Maul, looming big in the background.
So just looking at the poster, people could figure that Maul would play a significant part.

And speaking of trailers.
Take the somewhat recent film, "Morbius." The trailers for that film had a fair bit of Michael Keatons, Vulture character." Is he in the film a lot? Not really, most if not all his scens are in the end-credits bit.
And people did comment quite a bit about that.

Second example, the film Yesterday, the trailer for that film had Ana de Armas in it. But all her scenes were cut from the finished film. Two film fans sued the company over that. And a judge sided with them, saying this;

As for Griev, I found him a boring waste of time. Not a threat, uninteresting and a bladder full of hot air.
And he replaced the far more interesting Dooku.

Overconfidence and idiocy are not the same thing so I would argue more Terl level of stupid but not as bad.

Bye.
Blackboard Monitor

 

If you weren’t old enough to be around for the hype in 99 you wouldn’t have experienced it. You couldn’t really know about it the same way as being there. The old heads get it in a way a 25 year old won’t.

It’s like the Beatles playing live. I can hear a recording or see a movie of it today but that’s not the same thing as being at the show when they played.

I see a pair of sinister yellow eyes ringed in red. And then red and black stripes. If I’m not familiar with the movie I don’t know if that’s a person or a space tiger on the poster. There is no nose, mouth, not even Mauls horns.

ApocalypseIs is completely revealed. It is very different from Maul who is mysterious shrouded in the background. Also it’s not nearly a good a poster. That looks like streaming screen icon for movie.

 

That's scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as criticism goes. Really, the poster?

The reality is that nobody that watched the movie went: "The poster/trailer misled me." Instead, what they said was: "I wish that cool character appeared more."

 

Well, I've read about a dozen or more arguments about Finn being pushed to the side in the ST that begin with the fact that Finn held the lightsaber in the TFA poster. Just sayin'.

 

How is it much different?

 

The OP was about expectations and why certain expectations might have come around.
The OP even says "And to be fair, he was quite significantly featured in the marketing campaign, maybe leading people to believe he would have a bigger role. "

So the hype around TPM back in the day is part of this discussion. And Maul was pushed quite a bit.
I was around at the time and saw his face all over the place. Even people that I know that were not big Star Wars fans had seen it.

Oh you want more examples then?




These are covers of the novel, which I saw in a lot of bookstores. And Maul is front and center.
Bottomline, Maul was not hidden, his face was part of the marketing of the film. A pretty big part even. And he was in the trailers.
So most people coming to see the film would have seen his face, fairly often most likely.

So them EXPECTING that Maul would play a big role is not surprising or strange or anything unique to SW fans.

Again, read the OP, it talks about expectations and even mentions the marketing of TPM. Posters and trailers are part of that. I am going with what the OP talked about. Maul was marketed really heavily.
Could that have led to people expecting more from him?
Not an unreasonable question.

Marketing can create expectations, that is part of the job of marketing.
And sometimes, people can feel marketing did not match up with the finished film.
As I said, a number of people have slammed TFA and it's marketing Finn with a ligthsaber as trying to set up a false narrative that Finn could become a Jedi.

Non SW example, the third Planet of the Apes film, War for the Planet of the Apes. I like the film a lot but the trailers and marketing did not really give an accurate idea what kind of film it was. It instead hyped up the action portions and tried to make it look like an action/war film when it is more or a prison camp film.
Even reviewers that like the film took the marketing to task for setting up the wrong expectations for the film and told people to be prepared that the film was different from what the trailers made it appear.

As for Maul, I had no desire to see more of him after the film was over as I found him uninteresting.
Thankfully, AotC had a better villain, Dooku. That Rots then killed off too soon. So of the three side villains, Dooku is the only one I wanted more of. Because he was the only one that was interesting.
The others were good examples of style over substance, all surface and no depth.

Well I can point to Terl again, he is very overconfident and arrogant and he thinks very little of humans or "Man-animals" as he calls them. Showing how "smart" he is, he has a picture of a dog being driven by a human and so he concludes that dogs were the superior race. Despite him knowing that humans built the city his base is located in, he knows that humans built the car and others sort of tech and dogs did not.
Even more signs of his "cleverness", he wants to find out what a humans favorite food is. So his plan is to watch the main character, knowing he is really hungry, starving in fact. And the logic, according to Terl, is that when a human is really, really hungry, they would only eat their favorite food. As opposed to eating almost anything because they are starving!
Lastly, Terl can not believe that a human could have grabbed a gun and shoot and killed one of their guards. Again despite knowing that humans had tech, guns, military, airplanes and weapons.
So he orders another guard to give the gun back to the main character but the guard objects, saying he could get shot. Showing that the guard has more or a brain than Terl. But Terl orders it anyway and the main character shoots and kills another guard.
This is a character being stupid, not just overconfident or arrogant.

Or I can point to the TOS ep. "The Alternative Factor." where Kirk, Spock and Bones all take turns holding the Idiot Ball so that the plot can happen.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

Episode 1 novel had four different dust jackets to choose from. On the back cover is an image of either Watto, Darth Sidious, Jar-Jar, or Qui-Gon.

I think that is again the same false fan expectations as Darth Maul. Finn uses the Skywalker lightsaber a lot in The Force Awakens.

 

can't these same complaints about Maul on the poster also be applied to Qui-Gon?

Dude also ded.

 

People aren't complaining that Darth Maul died. They are complaining that he had very little screen time and then he died. Qui-Gon died, but he was the main protagonist with the most screen time.

 

yeah true.

 

Boba and Maul have differences, but similarities as well. Both were commissioned by a Sith Lord to track down the heroes' ship and bring them to him. I think of Maul as a cross between Vader and Boba. He had the more important Sith rank of the former, but much of the function of the latter. Before he was brought back, Maul was the template for the "Sith Assassin" character type. That is his function in the film.

Maul being in a lot of the marketing as an avatar of sorts of the titular "Phantom Menace" is a little bit of misdirection. But it works in my opinion. Maul is the dragon. The beast that must be slain. Palpatine is the true devil, or Phantom Menace, behind it all. But they wanted to keep the secret of Sidious mysterious, so he doesn't feature as much in the promo material. Maul has the looks of the devil, while Palpatine has the personality of the devil.

About your questions regarding the Sith, I have an interpretation of that. I believe the Sith wiped each other out, but in their vanity, blamed the Jedi since supposedly the Sith started as fallen Jedi. Also, since they wiped each other out, the whole subject of "revenge" that Maul brings up is called into question. But Maul was indoctrinated since childhood to become a Sith, so the notion of revenge was probably something that Palpatine made up to motivate Maul.

Actually, if you want to look at posters that prominently feature characters that have small roles in the actual film, another example from LotR would be the Nazgul on the Fellowship poster. They are actually quite similar to Maul, both in appearance and plot function. They both have that cloaked death figure look and they hunt the heroes for the big bad. The nazgul were quite prominently featured in a lot of LotR merchandise, because they are so striking.

 

1. Boba Fett is not really given the mission to bring the heroes ship to Vader, he just has to find it. And as I've said, he is not alone, there are a bunch of bounty hunters there and Vader gives them the same pitch, find the MF and you will get rewarded. Any of them could have done what Boba Fett did. Boba is given a little more emphasis in that he is the only one that is given a line and Vader feels the need to remind him, "NO killing."
Slight exaggeration but Boba Fett's function is not that different from the probe droid at the start.
The probe droid let the empire know where the rebels were and they went there. Boba Fett let Vader know where the MF were going and Vader went there. Boba does a bit more but part of his function is that.

2. Maul being the dragon. There is no real plot line that suggest that Maul is any kind of dragon that needs to be slain. The Jedi killing him actually works against them as they would rather have taken him alive so they could question him. Maul also is not a major threat nor is he behind a major threat, like a dragon would be. Maul is a henchman. The main force the heroes fight against are the TF. They in turn are in part run by Sidious but the heroes does not know that. Maul is sent to capture Padme and kill the Jedi, he fails. Then he is sent to Naboo and he does kill one Jedi and then dies. What was his mission on Naboo really? Kill two Jedi?
His early mission was to get Padme back to Naboo but she goes back there on her own. So is he there just to help the TF kill two Jedi? For that matter, why does Sidious care? He has gotten what he wanted, rid of Valorum. So what happens on Naboo would be less important now.
Had Maul been the one that ran the TF, they talked to him and not to Sidious. Then his role would be bigger and more important, like a dragon. And if Maul and only Maul talked to Sidious, that would a) tell us that there is a bigger bad behind this big bad. And also b) make sense that Sidious would keep himself hidden. A true "Phantom". Consider, if Nute and co blabs, the Jedi could learn a lot. However is Nute only knew Maul and Maul is dead, the Jedi have less to go on.

3. A neat theory about the Sith but none of that is in the films. We are just told that the Sith want revenge but not for what.

4. About FotR. The Nazgul are both different from Maul and also more important. Obvious difference, they come back in the second and third film.
But we get to see them in the prologue when they are human but we do not know that yet. Then from when Bilbo leaves, the Nazgul are sent out and the tension begins to build and Frodo and co dodge them several times. So for the first half of the film, they are a pretty consistent threat and push the heroes forward. Then they are defeated at the ford and we do not see them again for this film.
But they are also there so show why Sauron helped make the other rings, he wanted to enslave others and while it did not work with the Three or the Seven it did work with the Nine. So we know who and what they are, why they are and what Saurons deal with the Rings were. So lore wise, they are more important than Maul. Maul is just bad guy that wants revenge for unknown reasons. And we get very little about the Sith.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

That sounds a lot like Darth Vader in A New Hope being the henchman of the Empire and Tarkin.

 

Which is a fair reading of Vader role in the film and is something that Leia throws in his face when she meets with Tarkin.
"I expected to find you holding Vader's leash."
Vader is the enforcer, the steel grip of the Empire. Tarkin is the cold, uncaring and ruthless mind.

But Vader also has a bit of personal backstory and connection to the main hero, Luke. He murdered Luke's father.
And Vader is also the former student of Obi-Wan and Vader wants to deal with him.
So there is more to him than just a henchman. He has backstory.

Plus Vader does not always do what Tarkin says. Vader is the one who suggest the plan to let Leia go and track her.
He was bold enough to intercept and attack Leia's ship at the start. Something an other imperial officer deemed risky.
He goes out to take out the X-Wings when the guns prove ineffective.
So he can and do act on his own initiative and can think.
Plus when Motti mocks him, Vader does not take that kindly and puts him in his place.
He listens to Tarkin and they seem to treat each other as somewhat equals.
Tarkin might outrank Vader but he does not treat him as a servant.

In short, Vader's role in ANH is not that big and a discussion could be held if he or Tarkin is the main villain.
But he does have a character and a personal backstory that connects him to two of the good guys. And he lives through the film.

Maul has no personal connection to the main heroes, he mainly does what Sidious tells him to, shows little to no initiative and has very little character. And he dies at the end.

Bye.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I think Maul was good for TPM. Since The Prequel Trilogy is really about The Rise of Darth Vader, any other Sith Lord was basically disposable except for Palpatine. I really do not think Maul would have brought anything to AOTC or ROTS, in fact, he’d have been a distraction. Having Dooku, a senior Sith Lord was brilliant because our hip and young Sith Lord is suppose to be Anakin, i.e. Vader.

 

I thought the character was very effective as used in TPM, my expectations were met. The manner in which Qui-Gon and Maul were introduced and exited the PT narrative in that film is one of the reasons TPM feels unique and self-contained even though it's also essential to me in terms of the whole saga narrative.

I definitely miss the iconography of Maul, though. I've noticed they lean heavily on the 70s/80s package design for the action figures these days, but for me the TPM-era Maul packaging is the real sweet spot.

 

I can understand where this sentiment comes from. After all, Maul was one of the most hyped and publicized characters before The Phantom Menace came out, and his presence in the movie was very intimidating. So I can get why people expected more from his character, and why many were disappointed in seeing that he was killed at the end of The Phantom Menace. But to be honest I think he could have never been the main villain of the Prequel Trilogy, regardless of people's expectations, for the simple reason that in Attack of the Clones we needed a villain that was connected to the political world and could serve as the leader of the Separatist Alliance. And you know, Maul was not exactly that. He was not connected to the political world and wouldn't have worked as the leader of the Separatists. So, although I understand where people's expectations come from, at the same time I think Maul's death at the end of The Phantom Menace was the best option. And, as a footnote, I think he should have stayed dead. But that's another story...

 

I agree with your comment regarding Boba and the probe droid. Maul basically functions as an extension of the probe droids he sets out on Tatooine, as well. It is true that the Nazgul are more important than Maul, so Lurtz is probably the more appropriate comparison. But I think the title "The Phantom Menace" refers to the Sith as a collective, not necessarily Maul or Sidious individually, so putting Maul in all the promo material as the face of the Sith is appropriate, since Sidious was meant to be mysterious.

I actually share your thoughts that the Sith could have maybe benefited from slightly more elaboration when they are introduced in TPM. I wish there were a scene like Obi-Wan's talk to Luke about the Jedi in ANH. That is one small criticism I have raised before about the prequels. The novelization has a short explanation about the history of the Sith, if I remember correctly. But I think the film does a fine job in establishing the Sith as a threat and the natural counterparts and enemies of the Jedi. Lucas always said he wasn't one for exposition and liked to show things visually and through action, so I think the actions of the Sith speak louder than words.

 

I think they're not developed to have any real info on who Sidious personally is in TPM. He literally uses an alias. And, Palpatine now being Chancellor, can inhibit them from giving what little they may know.

The rest is moreso a personal want. It doesn't make it bad how he's used in the movie as is.

 

There is a chess game dynamic to the story in that two powerful pieces are removed from the board whose absence means huge changes for the story that follows.

In a way Maul killing Qui-Gon is what sets up Obi-Wan to defeat Maul. In the end I think Obi-Wan finds focus and control because of his loss and uses that to defeat Maul.

Mail is removed when it feels like we didn’t see the full extent of what he can do. That’s part of the story. It’s all part of the creation of Darth Vader.

 

Darth Maul is the Hot Rod of Sith, shiny, and cool, but not good for the commute that is the clone wars, that required Dooku.

 

Well one can look at the title of TPM in two ways, Phantom Menace as in, a phantom that is menacing.
That could indeed be the Sith as a whole. But one can also see it as a Phantom. as in not real or illusion, menace.
Meaning that the Phantom Menace is there to distract the heroes while the villain does their work elsewhere. And the heroes defeat this "Phantom Menace" not knowing that the real villain won.
So who would that be in TPM? The TF. They are the direct enemy that the good guys deal with. They attack Naboo and their forces are defeated at the end.

The Sith as enemies of the Jedi yes but counterpart? Far too little is said about the Sith to draw much if any conclusions like that. Unless by counterpart we simply mean Bad Guys to the Good Guys Jedi.

Threat? Maul kills Qui-Gon yes but then he in turn is killed by a Jedi that is not even a knight. So how capable is he?

As for Lucas not being good with exposition. I think ANH suggest otherwise. That film did tell the audience quite a bit about the backstory and lore of the setting. And it did so without loads of dialogue.
Ex, the DS scene. That tells us that the Rebels are a threat and that the imperial fleet alone can not keep order, the senate was needed for that. It tells us what the plan going forward was, fear of the DS would keep the local systems in line. It also gave us some character bits about Vader and how other imperials view him. Motti mocks him but gets put in his place. Tarkin can give him orders but seem to have some respect for him.

Obi-Wan gives us a history of the galaxy, that the Republic had been around for a very long time, over 1000 generations. What the Jedi did and short but effective info about the Force and how it works.

If the Jedi were to learn all that TPM establishes that the TF/Nute knows, then the Jedi would know;
a) There is indeed another Sith Lord.
b) The name of this Sith Lord.
c) This Sith is the Master and Maul was the Apprentice.
d) This Sith has an influence over the Senate.
e) They would have an image of this Sith and there are similarities to Palpatine. They would at least know that he is human.

Going a bit further, the Jedi could ask Nute when and how he got in contact with this Sith. Was it recent or further back. What was their plan, why did they blockade and invade Naboo?
The TF has the means to contact Sidious and in the film, Maul was able to get a trace by just sending a message even if no one responded. So the Jedi could do the same, contact Sidious and even if he does not answer, the Jedi might be able to trace his location.

In short, the Jedi could learn a fair bit.

I can half-agree, Qui-Gon being killed had an considerable impact. It robbed Anakin of the Jedi he knew well and trusted. It forced a rookie Obi-Wan to train Anakin. It possibly might have affected Shmi as I think possible that Qui-Gon would have made another attempt to free her and let Anakin know that she was freed. So Anakin would not spend ten years worrying about her.

Maul? Big impact? Maul did so little in the film so his death has little weight. All Maul did was kill one Jedi and let the Jedi know that the Sith were back. That is it.
Was the LotR films majorly impacted by the death of Lurtz? Not really.
All that happened is that Sidious had to find an new apprentice and he did so with little difficulty it seems.
Qui-Gon is mentioned in the other films, Maul is not.
The bad guys are not shown as significantly weaker by the loss of Maul. Same really with the loss of Dooku. Dooku's death had a bit of an impact on Anakin but not much to the overall plot.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

Lucas said that he thrust the audience into the middle of the story in Episode IV and didn't explain every minute detail of the world to keep it kind of mysterious. Still, there is indeed more exposition in ANH than TPM. Lucas seems to have amped up that ethos of not telling too much with the prequels. If you watch the films in the numerical order, you don't get the full explanation about the Force until Episode IV. I think in terms of drama and the personal story of Anakin Skywalker, the films work better in that order, but there are hiccups like that. I was again reminded of LotR and how masterfully the history of Middle-Earth was elucidated in FotR. And while I didn't like those movies, the first Hobbit had an excellent flashback that demonstrated Azog as a villain. I got to thinking if it would be possible to make a fanedit of TPM with footage from the CGI trailers for The Old Republic and create narration that would explain the Sith a little more. I've made some fanedits of other movies before, but never touched Star Wars because it's sacred to me. I've still had ideas like this for tweaking some things about them, even though I find them perfect in their own way.