Comics Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith #19-25: Fortress Vader (7/7 Released)

Neither one of those quotes actually states Ezra could have changed the past; it's saying he was tempted with the possibility to return to his parents at the cost of erasing the good he'd done, not that it would actually have happened. That wouldn't work anyway; Ezra goes into the portal and he's with his parents from before they died, except he's still the same age he was when he entered the portal, but all of his actions are suddenly gone?

 

Yes. Age doesn't seem to matter. Present Ezra would go back in time to when his parents were alive and use his knowledge and power to save them, but would never end up helping the Rebellion. The second quote makes it pretty clear that what Palpatine tempted Ezra with was actually possible. That's why his rejection of that temptation is so powerful. Still, I will admit that nothing's been concretely explained. I doubt it ever will be, to be honest. Which is a shame.

 

Absolutely calling him Meow-man from now on.

 

This was straight up one of my favourite Star Wars comics ever. Any canon, continuity, or universe. Like there's Dark Empire #1 and this, it's that good. And it tells so much in just pure comic-book dom, way more on images and brief fleeting words. Pretty much a A-class How To make comics work. And the big moments, of which there are many, hit perfectly. Vader igniting his wacky force vision swords and taking out the whole Jedi council while Kylo in the future gives his big Let the past die speech was great. Kylo's decision was so profound it reached through time and gave Vader some murder fuel. Hey, Kylo, you helped grandpa after all.

Also this moment here


Ep 1 teaser poster is canon! And also bonus points cuz Lil' Annie says "Stupid SAND!"

For me, I totally think Vader went to the World Between Worlds, basically hearing the past/present and future important moments in the Force across time and space at once confirms it for me. But I would say the WBW works differently for Vader due to him being a Sith which is why it's basically a murder-meat grinder as opposed to the rather serene place Ezra and Ashoka found, different people would experience it different ways. Even Momin straight up said that Vader wasn't Dark-siding right so the WBW wouldn't quite work properly. note how even Sidious couldn't enter the WBW but Vader could because, as Momin taunted him "they called you the chosen one, and you believed it!" So Vader can be the Chosen One to enter it but the WBW doesn't behave for him in the same way because he's a ranty Sith. User variance if you're a Sith Lord and all that. Also Luke would find it at some point and it blows Vader out of there with the power of the Light. That was also my favourite part too. Lots of favourite parts here. I didn't clue that him seeing Ahoksa was the "It was foretold you would be here" line from Rebels Twilight of the Apprentice, I thought that was Sidious giving Vader Future Intel since Sidious is in the business of doing that, but it totally makes more character sense that Vader would be the one to have the vision of their confrontation, not Palpatine. She's way more important to him anyway.

so the portal is still there and we have our Vader's Castle Dark Side Nexus, one wonders if Vader ever cracked it open again. but he tried and he failed to save Padme and he seems to be accepting of his place in the world now so maybe he didn't.

Still, the fact that people can debate this considering how the issue is both very dense and very sparse at the same time shows how this was some real special comic-book-ing. They totally did make the Christmas Star Wars Movie for 2018, all in one issue. Anyway, I'm totally gonna read this again, been already 2 weeks!

 

Meta-wise, changing the past is something that I believe the writers and tptb don't want to happen in the SW franchise at least for the foreseeable future. The way I see it, Momin and Ahsoka are sort of "loopholes" that the storytellers used so they can have their cake and also eat it in the sense that they are sort of a time travel/manipulation plot but not really since nothing really changed. In universe, I believe that no one is able to change the past one way or the other because Will of the Force prohibits it. Of course, since Momin and Ahsoka requires actions from the future this does mean that the future in SW is pre-destined to some degree. But I would say the Will of the Force grasp of the future is not as absolute as of the past. So it's not total pre-destination, there are things that are outside the control of the Force. Always in motion the future is after all. Now, if Sidious managed to gain control of WBW it's possible that he can override the Will of the Force somehow so that he can change the past at will which would be consistent with the Tarkin novel where he is stated to want to remake the universe.

Just my two cents.

 

I loved the let the past die scene

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So even though I found out about the finale, I purchased a copy of Darth Vader 25 today and I have some thoughts

Spoiler

Anakins demonic “Force spirit” appearance is awesome because I feel it shows how far he lost his humanity and Dark Siders as far as I know can’t come back as ghosts so this is like a weird exception

Vader conjuring two sabers was beyond cool and his slaughter of the Jedi was very visceral. Though I do wonder why Yaddle and Yarael Poof appeared. They haven’t been seen since TPM in newcanon and they seemed out of place here.

Anakins spirit isn’t restricted by the limitations of his cybernetics and fires force lightning at the illusion of his master. It’s red color goes back to a wise theory someone posted on a YouTube video of the Mustafar duel many years ago; how Anakins force lightning would probably be red denoting his strength in the Force like the Son.

Padme commiting suicide was nicely done but they went a little overboard about her fate. I guess they did it to scar Anakin.

All in all it was awesome, but I do NOT believe that Anakin journeyed to the afterlife. I believed everything he encountered were illusions manifested from his own experiences and desires. Padme rejected him because Anakin expected her to reject him. It just re-affirmed how he felt on the surface.

Oh and I also like the nightmare vision young Anakin had about encountering his future self (though not known to Anakin at the time of course).

I liked it. It was good closure for Anakin to fully become Vader without any attachments.

 

I agree. What Vader journeyed to, I think, was closer to being a Dark Side realm rather than the World Between Worlds. Momin described the Force locus in Mustafar as a door to the Dark Side, one which was locked but could be unlocked by Momin's sculpture, Vader's fortress.

My impression of the World Between Worlds from Rebels is that, rather than being a neutral or natural Force dimension, it was something created by either the ancient Jedi or by Force wielders even older than them. I think Momin tried to construct something like that, his Force experiments certainly involved the manipulation of time, whether stopping it or circumventing its course. That could make the realm that Vader accessed more of a rudimentary gateway to the Force, one made by Momin rather than a more advanced group of Force wielders. Perhaps that's why it only worked for Momin, because he made it for himself.

Following that interpretation, the World Between Worlds, created by Jedi or an older order, is perhaps more refined because its purpose would not be to change time but rather to observe it.

I'm also wondering, having read this arc, whether Momin is intended to be the new canon's one Sith whom Sidious said had learned to cheat death. I know ROTS implied this was Plagueis, but maybe they've decided to change that.

 

I hope not. Momin isn't even a Darth. I want it to still be Plagueis. Head-canon. Head-canon. HEAD-CANON

 

Sidious never said ANY Sith had learned to cheat death. The line in the movie is "To cheat death is a power only one has discovered;" that "one" is revealed at the end of the movie to be Qui-Gon Jinn.

 

I'm pretty sure that that's in reference to Plagueis, since that's one of the points that draws Anakin to join the Sith. Sidious would be unaware of Qui-Gon, and even if he knew, that is not the kind of cheating death that Anakin is looking for

 

I'm pretty sure that's the ultimate irony of the movie: The answer Anakin wanted was right in front of him all along, but he was too prideful to see it, and instead turned to the exact opposite path.

Why assume he knows nothing about Qui-Gon? If Yoda can hear Qui-Gon calling out to Anakin in Attack of the Clones, surely Sidious can as well?

And Plagueis explicitly did NOT cheat death. "It's ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself."

 

You’re right. Sidious did not specify that it was a Sith, but I also don’t think it was a reference to Qui-Gon because (1) Sidious likely did not know about that and (2) Sidious would probably not believe that was truly cheating death, seeing it rather as a Force illusion, based on his Sith beliefs in no afterlife.

And going back to the original reference, Sidious meant “cheat death” as in preventing others from dying, or keeping them alive, rather than oneself. This is more in line with the World Between Worlds, which Sidious did seem to know about. But is that what Plagueis discovered? Unlikely, since his work dealt with midi-chlorians. But I also agree that Sidious would not have meant Momin, who had not yet achieved anything like that.

Maybe “there is another.”

 

Well, cheating death in this scene is about preventing others from dying, which is explicitly what Sidious said Plagueis learned to do - which of course is what he finds so ironic, as saving others is not what Sith are trying to achieve. Anakin joins the Sith not to prevent his own death, but Padme's.

 

And yet Yoda told Anakin not to worry about that at the beginning of the movie. The loved one he is afraid to lose won't be gone, but will be one with the Force. He's hinting there at the greater point that will be made by the end of the movie, the greater point that will then be further made by Return of the Jedi: to hold on is a means to suffering, to let go is the means to infinity.

 

Or.... Sidious' line to Anakin in ROTS is utter crap, but it's the kind of manipulative crap that Anakin is a sucker for so it works.

I like the idea of Qui-Gon being the one to work it out, but he does in a way that a Sith like Sidious would utterly disdain.

 

So I re-read this issue again before filing it away with the complete Vol 2, interesting thought when I re-read it again, the Vader appears to Lil'Annie nightmare scene



Okay so Vader reaches out to Lil'Annie then he wakes up, definitely a nightmare and is comforted by his mother. But it should be noted that the two pages don't look like they take place in the domain Vader is in, like the last few pages of the book it's in "reality". I don't think this is a part of Vader's vision, I think at that moment he reaches through the World Between Worlds (wherever he is) and into Lil'Annie's dream which shakes the kid awake, and then his mother tells him it was just a dream. Also of note that Shimi doesn't turn into a mocking Force-wraith like Padme does later on, who Vader meets at the castle, so I don't think that the Kid Anakin and Shimi scene took place where Vader was, it was him influencing the outside world. (took me a 2nd read to realize that Vader is basically marching to his own castle the whole time hahaha)

So that actually happened to Lil'Annie on Tatooine, he got a vision of his Vader-future. So what was Vader doing at that moment reaching into the past (like can happen in the World Between Worlds) was he trying to warn his young self/stop his young self? Kill his younger self? I just go with Vader is in the World Between Worlds but it isn't working right for him since he's a Sith and one mistake / consequence is that all he really did to affect the past was to give Lil'Annie quite a fright.

 

Yes I agree. He retroactively gave himself the nightmare by going back in time to his younger mind. However, one bad dream when you are under 9 years old will not affect you since you probably would have forgot it anyway in the 20+ years, and Vader only "remembered it" when he caused it.

 

Maybe that's the dream Anakin shook off, when Padme woke him up before the Boonta Eve race.

 

It's not. For starters, that dream is about Padme. We also see Anakin wake up in the comic; he's in bed, his mother comes to him.

 

Anakin had many dreams as a child. He dreamed of becoming a Jedi, the start of the Clone Wars, Padme, etc. Some were visions; others were wishful thinking.

 

yah that's a good point, and Anakin also had dreams of his mother, his wife, etc. So maybe the fact is that where he was enabled Vader to reach through the Force and time to influence himself as a kid, or at least whatever Vader intended to do with Anakin, who has prophetic visions anyway, and all it did was scare the hell out of kid Anakin.

 

Absolutely right! Maybe Vader wanted to change the past. Who knows. I’d love an interview with Charles Soule to happen with some BTS stuff.

 

Vader was reaching out of the wall with what looked like nefarious intent, maybe he was going to smoother the lil kid (himself) but that is realllly dark. Or just warn him ("Hey! Kid! you know the old man who says he'll watch your career with great interest? Bail!"). Or who knows?

 

Speaking of that panel being a reference to the TPM poster, I wonder if the concept of Vader facing off with the phantom Jedi was inspired by that AOTC-era pic by Jeffrey Carlisle where Vader is being haunted by the ghosts of the Jedi Council members.

I actually do prefer the idea that Palpatine was being truthful to Anakin there, even if he was laying out the breadcrumbs in the most seductive way possible. I think there's something to be said for Anakin feeling manipulated and kept in the dark by the Jedi (with some degree of justification) and so being vulnerable to someone telling him a truthful story (even if it is from a certain POV)....