Lit Dawn of the Jedi: Force Wars

Because this thread is Pre-Lit

 

Because this story happened before there was a Lit.

Edit: And now I feel stupid for not reading the next page of replies and seeing credar had already ninja'd me.

 

I disagree with the claim that the "Bogan followers" of the Force Wars (the conflict) are really just the Rakata and the "Ashla followers" are really just the in-balance Jed'aii. Any other thoughts on this?

 

This is exactly what I was thinking.

 

I winder how they are going to expel the Rakata. Maybe we can see the creation of the plague.

 

Maybe the first Force War is when the Rakata invade and the second is when Rajivari turns to The Dark Side.

 

Yeah, there's that whole issue with having to go "dark side" in order to use those Force-sabers they're now mass-producing for the Je'Dai...

 

I think it'd be kinda neat if Lok created the plague, and so got the last laugh despite his "defeat".

That'd be sure to spark a huge rift in the Je'daii, as the followers of Ashla wouldn't condone a genocidal plague.

 

Zorrixor, you are a genius.

 

And this could lead to a fight between light Je'daii and dark Je'daii

 

But... but... TSL implied that overuse of the Star Forge was responsible for the "plague".

 

1. Implied != stated
2. TSL is just what someone thinks over 21,000 years later

 

Yes, I understand what the words I use mean. Thanks.

Though it did also serve as the entire rationale behind Revan waging his war of conquest in the way he did, in contrast to Malak's approach. So, if it turns out the Star Forge had nothing to do with what afflicted the Infinite Empire, a significant plot point from TSL will be rendered fairly nonsensical.

It wouldn't be the end of the world, by any means, but I'd still be a little disappointed if things didn't dovetail.

 

I've tended to view the Star Forge's corruption as something different to the Force nullifying disease specifically.

What was the actual KOTOR2 quote again? Is it possible to interpret it as a broader metaphor about the Star Forge being the origin of the Rakata's descent into the vicious circle of warfare and enslavement that then led to the plague's creation by one of those races that they were trying to enslave with the might of the Star Forge's armies -- only for the infinite powers of the Star Forge to be overwhelmed when they faced off against the power of the Jed'aii?

Something like that still makes the Star Forge the reason Rakatan civilisation collapsed, as it was still the Star Forge's corruption of their collective psyche that led them to the fatal mistake of engaging an enemy that they could not defeat?

I feel the sudden urge to post a picture of an owl going O RLY?

But I don't want Skelicus to hurt me, so I shall refrain.

 

I don't think so, but if you can swing it that way more power to you.

Here's the quote:

"Knowing what we do of the Builders and their fate, I am convinced that Revan did not intend us to keep the Star Forge. To use it would mean the end of the Sith... and the end of the Force." - Sith!Bastila, (my emphasis)

Which ties into G0-T0's:

"Revan did not intend to destroy the Republic. He deliberately left the infrastructure of many planets intact - and many military production facilities. I believe that by whatever means he used to build his armada, he recognized that it was somehow a limited source - or that he was only willing to use it to a point. My prediction is that whatever production facility was being employed, it carried a price that Revan perceived as detrimental to the goals of the Sith. And that is why Revan left many military production facilities in the Republic intact." (My emphasis)

I would never hurt a fellow subject of Her Majesty, fool.

 

I also think those two are entirely different occasions.
The authors of the TOR encyclopedia wrote Rajivari would fall to the Dark Side and assemble an army.
Somehow, I think they collaborated with Ostrander before publishing their book.

 

I'm just inclined to now treat the "Force Wars" as equivalent to the "Sith Wars" and an umbrella term that referred to more than one specific event, making the Rakatan invasion a different event during the Force Wars than the ones we've heard of before.

 

I'm not the only person who imagines the TF: Beast Wars intro dude shouting "FORCE WARS!!!" whenever I see it written down, am I? Just to clarify.

 

TOR itself establishes the existence of the fallen Jedi Rajivari. Ostrander made sure to include him in DOTJ for the sake of continuity.

 

Its hard to tell, most of this ancient history is lost by the TOR era, much less later. The Warfare guide speculated about the Celestials, Rakata, Kwa, all those ancient species, whereas DotJ has a Kwa holocron say outright that the Kwa accidentally unleashed the Rakata on the galaxy.

I haven't played KotOR II (unfortunately), but most of KotOR II has already been swept away by TOR, and a lot of the info was either non-canon (such as Sith!Bastila), speculation (G0-T0) or from sources that were at best... untrustworthy (basically Kreia). Its a fascinating idea, that the Rakata built something so powerful it caused their downfall and that Revan used it as well but was smart enough to know when to stop, but Malak either didn't understand or didn't care. Of course that also presumes Revan was planning for something, whereas in the Revan novel, I think it said that Revan and Malak managed to twist their orders from the Sith Emperor but not much else. I have a hard time keeping track of all the events (such as that Revan and Malak scene on Dantooine, which makes it seem like they were looking into the Star Forge during the Mandalorian Wars or something like that).

Still miss the original simple KotOR background too (Revan went to war against the Mandalorians and became an even bigger threat), now there's the Sith Emperor and brainwashing and Revan being stuck in a prison for 300 years and so on.

Unless we see the Star Forge (most of the Rakata stuff we've seen already has that design philosophy) the Rakata have to last at least a little longer. Would be interesting if the Je'daii ended up creating the plague that stripped the Rakata of their Force sensitivity. Although I still like the idea that the plague was punishment for the Rakata's crimes, and how that could fuel Kreia's anti-Force philosophy (although in the end it basically comes down to something like a hand deciding to kill the body, but Kreia was not stable by KotOR II).

Actually, given the backstabbing we've seen among the Rakata already, it would be ironic if one Rakata created the plague and unleashed it on a rival but then ends up causing the downfall of their civilization.

Still not sure about DotJ Rajivari and TOR Rajivari. Having it just be relatives is probably the simplest, unless Rajivari has a really eventful long life.

Didn't much care for the long Lok chase sequence, and hard to take anything Xesh says as real (he thinks he's telling the truth, but he's not a reliable narrator), but a crisis like a Rakata invasion could be what forces the Je'daii to choose light over balance. Or rather to forbid anything dark, since "balance" is somewhat close to what more modern Jedi teach anyway. And since it was revealed the Despot War was ended by Lok assassinating Hadiya, against Je'daii rules, wonder what that says about how weak or strong the Je'daii were. Lok was mad and power-hungry (Xesh could only put up with him for so long), but he didn't want to destroy the Je'daii either.

More than anything else, I wonder at the Je'daii chances. Before Tython's location was its main defense, hidden in the Deep Core, but considering the Je'daii don't even have hyperdrive yet... although Tython itself probably won't react well to the Rakata based on how the first arriving (exploding) ship upset the planet.

 

I don't see any inconsistencies between TOR Rajivari and DOTJ Rajivari.

 

As Zorrixor knows, speaking of retcons, there was a time when Massassi were green, "Red Sith" were human, and Naga Sadow was a sorcerer of pure Sith blood who was rebelling against a Dark Jedi named Marka Ragnos.

 

What about those Tho Yor mystery vessels that brought the Jed'aii to Tython? I am eager to see what Can of Wup-ass they can open up and if their origins are revealed.

 

I guess it never will be revealed. Otherwise, they would have to go back to the orgins of men.