Andor Dedra Meero

Well that’s how this argument began. I was responding to @Swashbucklingjedi ’s assertion that Dedra wasn’t as evil as someone like Tarkin. I just completely disagree with that line of thinking. Someone who has committed themselves to serving something like the Empire doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt with me. No matter where they stand on the totem pole.

 

I understand and sympathize your point, which obviously shows high moral values. Dedra has clearly committed crimes (illegal torture and extra-judicial killing) and should be sentenced even under imperial laws at that time. However, should we treat the same way someone like Eli Vanto? Or Tam Ryvora's grandfather? Or someone who signed as a stormtrooper after the Empire has liberated his planet from pirates and then they have had only guard duties on insignificant planets, without having an access to a shred of real information about what is happening in the galaxy? Don't forget that the Empire had a firm grip on HoloNet and most people (including many imperial servants) probably didn't know about Empire's atrocities.

 

If the President of the United States or the Chancellor of Germany were to declare themselves Emperor tomorrow would you simply go along with it? Would you not inherently know that something is not right about that? If they had declared an entire order of warriors who had spent generations protecting the country enemies of the state and killed them all in a single night would you not be a little suspicious? Failing that at some point the Empire’s evil becomes completely apparent to every single being in the galaxy. At that point everyone who still serves it has a choice to make. Continue to serve evil or don’t. It’s that simple.

 

In the scenario you described, I would indeed have no excuse, because I will have the necessary data to make the right choice. However, if I were a child when that happened and was successfully brainwashed by imperial propaganda, it would not be not that easy. Even older persons might have been easily misled to believe in the Empire following the horrors of the Clone Wars and the death of trillions of galactic citizens. Don't forget that at the end of the war Palpatine, in the eyes of the galaxy, was essentially the equivalent of Lincoln and had an enormous political credit (which, ironically, puts Mace Windu in the role of a failed John Wilkes Booth). The declaration of the Empire was met with applause in the Senate chamber.

For me, in GFFA the turning point, after which there was no excuse for imperial collaborators, was the destruction of Alderaan. This was an event which the Empire couldn't hide from the general public. And then the destruction of the Death Star showed that there were actual forces of good which you can join. Maybe Andor will move this turning point a little bit earlier, after the Ghorman massacre, for instance. It is clear, however, that at the beginning of Andor people are not yet feeling the full weight of the oppression and there are only few active rebel groups, comprising mostly people personally wronged by the Empire. That's why Luthen wants to provoke galaxy-wide show of imperial brute force.

 

oh c'mon , Liberals love fascists.

 

What the heck are you on about? In real life, torture is one of the least effective and least reliable interrogation techniques. It simply does not work well. And, of course, is brutal and inhumane. Before you go spewing misinformation here about the efficacy of torture, do some reading on the matter, rather than relying on films for your understanding of it. This is not an issue to just lightly BS about.

 

I really wish they had given us an audio sample of the sound that was playing in Bix' ears.
The build up from the interrogator was beautifully horrible (or horrendously beautiful?) and it piqued my curiosity.

Where did I seem surprised? I was not surprised at all, I have had extremely negative feelings towards Dedra Meero since she was first introduced in the show. Now about the pleasure... I don't know my friend. It felt quite obvious to me that Dedra is enjoying this. Her face and her mouth took many creepy expression as she was relishing what was going to happen.

At the moment, she has exactly zero redeeming qualities. And I refuse to give her the benefit of the doubt without a single piece of data supporting that she has "good in her". Also, she is a highly intelligent woman. She knows exactly what she is doing to these people. She literally tells Dedra that her friend who let her use the radio should have probably spilled the beans before the torturing, and that the information he gave away was not worth the price he paid, and the suffering he endured. He is essentially brain dead now, and they will hang him. Which by the way, she casually agrees to.

Well, yes. She literally suggested that they assassinate the rebel they captured, and plant him in his ship, making it look like an accident, on top of everything else. So far, she does not appear to have any moral barriers that she will not break.

 

I don't thinnk disney wants all their viewers curled up in balls on the floor.

 

With Dedra's characterisation in this latest episode, it certainly makes me re-evaluate my opinion about the likes of Admiral Rae Sloane. Whereas before, I viewed Rae Sloane as someone who likes law and order. Despite being Imperial, I viewed her as not being evil in comparison of the likes of Palpatine, Tarkin and Vader, but more so as someone who was simply enforcing an orderly society - from some sort of law enforcement perspective.

But seeing Dedra's character and all of those surrounding her at the interrogation location, it leads me to wonder what kind of atrocities Rae Sloane committed in preserving law and order in the name of the Empire.

I think Dedra's character says it all metaphorically when she was asked by one of her officer's what she wanted done with the shopkeeper (can't remember his name). The officer said he really wanted to hang him in the square as a message to others. Her response was along the lines of "I don't care what you do with him".

The same characterisation is reinforced later at the ISB meeting when they discuss Maarva. The only reason an elderly lady hasn't been tortured "yet" is because Dedra believes she wouldn't last too long under that device - and because Maarva is being used as bait.

The key word here is "yet" because Dedra will put that device on her without hesitation if it will yield some productive information.

 

Heh, yeah, none of us would have the same reaction as Bix.
A few horror elements are good once in a while in science fiction.
Or more than a few. It would have been fine.

She tells Bix *

 

I don't think there were misinformation, but sorry for telling these bad news. I should've been clearer what I meant.

For some reason torture is still used. Often called "Enhanced interrogation" or like. It is not ethical for sure and I agree it is inhumane and brutal. It also is questionable in providing information, but it does send the message of fear. It is not effective to provide reliable information that is true, but it is effective tool for oppressive regime to stay feared and in power.
Besides I was talking about the world as whole. China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Eritrea.... "National security" and things like that are used as reason for torture there. Only fairly recently CIA was also involved in several torture cases too. I'm not making that up either. Human rights are not something to joke about.
Check for example: https://www.freedomfromtorture.org/news/where-does-torture-happen-around-the-world
https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/10/03/us-ex-detainees-describe-unreported-cia-torture

I am very much against torture and I didn't intend to lightly BS about it. I was just not very clear and I apologize. This episode just reminded me of this fact and I thought modern people have wrong idea that there are no torture in the world anymore. Unfortunately there is. There shouldn't be since it is internationally prohibited.

That too was rebel, who made a personal choice to rise up against the Empire. We haven't really seen her hurting completely innocent bystanders or civilians yet. She is evil, calculating and cruel, but still she may have moral barriers. Sure all enemies of the Empire are beyond those. She is loyal imperial. Tarkin blew up Scarif with imperials on there, he has no limits at all. But if we see Dedra killing and hurting imperials or civilians with no rebel intent then she has proven herself as bad as Tarkin.

 

I completely disagree with your line of thinking. I also disagree with you about Dedra until we have learned more about her. She may be as bad or not. She surely is bad person though, I would sentence her very harshly as judge, but how much there is her free choice and how much training, brainwashing and culture she has been living in? It's hard to say. I think evil culture creates evil people. We should judge people in the context of their culture and group. People have strong tendency for conformity.

Tarkin was assh*le even with the jedi. He has created imperial culture together with others like him and Palpatine of course. Dedra is living inside this culture. She may even know nothing outside it. Tarkin is more evil because he is partially responsible for creating Dedra. I think we cannot even compare the two just yet.

People who have more power have more responsibility. We cannot compare a private and general or employee and employer. It is just unfair.

Well yes. That's true. But is has strong intimidating effect at least. In countries where there is a lot of internal strife and hatred it is utilized merely as means to hurt people who disagree with you. It is effective as means to spread terror and fear. Not so much as gaining reliable information.

No it isn't. It's easy to say it is, if you live in liberal democracy...

 

I think she’s one of the best antagonists that we’ve gotten in awhile.

She very compelling and interesting TK watch.

 

You described exactly why we don’t hear the sound. Because it couldn’t possibly be worse than what’s described. The silence is filled with our imagination. And that’s more horrifying, IMO.

 

Wonder if this technology is going to work wrong with some important interrogated that will lose sanity too fast and that is why Gorst's invention did not become a widespread torture device.

 

Think the sounds Vader used to torture Chewie in ESB with could possibly be the same that were used against Bix.

Gesendet von meinem TA-1053 mit Tapatalk

 

I don’t think there’s anything saying that the method of torture is not widespread later on. One can assume that Han and Chewie were subjected to it in ESB.

 

Meh, it didn't need to be horrifying to the point of sending us to therapy and causing trauma to us A smart viewer could have realized the difference between seeing (hearing in this case) something from a third perspective and experiencing it in person , like we do with everything else. If that were the case , then they shouldn't show us the Eye of Aldhani either, since nothing could have been as impressive as seeing it in person after the description that was given. And yet, it was cool to see it.

 

If they made us hear it, they'd need it to be awful enough for us to get the idea. But Andor is still supposed to be close to family-friendly, as a show. So, they would make us hear a family-friendly sound -that is, something not too realistic- but then we'd be puzzled because it wouldn't sound so bad to us, to justify Bix losing her mind. They went for the best solution, they let viewer infer it by themselves. A "smart viewer" is a viewer who can imagine a terrible sound without hearing it.

 

It also lets Bix’s actress sell it with her performance. And she did that VERY well imo.

 

Any sound would be less effective IMHO. It'd break the fourth wall, in an auditory way, because let's face it, the sound isn't going to make us fall to the floor/feel terror.

The silence, and Bix's scream, blending with the machine's whines afterwards, was more powerful for me.

 

I agree that it's more powerful not to let us hear the sound. I for some reason imagined it's something between Acklay Screech and tie fighter roar
Or then very low frequency sounds which are terrifying since you feel them more than you hear them. It's more powerful not to reveal it.

Also Bix's actress did act well here. I haven't liked her character especially much, but her actress does good job with her. She really looked like she is completely terrified.

 

I thought the implication was that the sound was incredibly sad and agonizing, not just hard on the ears like a TIE fighter or Nazgûl screech. But I’m not sure if that’s just my imagination.

 

The way this silence was set up...invites the worst.