Saga Details on Leia remembering her mother.

Instead of killing her onscreen, she should have been dying.

Would have explained how she was present for Leia's first years and still could give purpose for her being at Organa's on Alderaan and still would have provided motive for Anakin's "I need to save her" rationalization. I think it would have better emotional sway had Padme left and abandoned Anakin. Padme's character as developed in TPM & AOTC would never have followed him to Mustafar and tried to cull him back knowing what he had done. That's the major difference between Padme and Anakin- she always puts others first and Anakin's decisions are based on his wants and needs. Her decision to follow Anakin was not logical given those characteristics...she would have made the right, smart choice- no matter how painful- by sending Kenobi off to do what he has to do, especially given her condition and situation. "She was.... kind but sad". My scenario fits all the pieces of the puzzle.

 

I like this idea a lot. Fits the OT a lot better, but it gives that sense of closure the PT fans want of Padme. Nice. It also would make Anakin's obsession with saving her a bit more...logical.

 

Yes, we need to see it. Star Wars has a certain style that demands closure for its major characters. If it's established that she's dying, then yes, we would understand intellectually. Emotionally, though, it would seem too odd. If she's dying at the end of ROTS and we never get to see even a funeral, then it seems very strange that she's never mentioned in ANH. It would feel like a part of the narrative is missing. At least that's what I believe.
Either way, though, this is a pointless discussion, since the movies are what they are.





Star Wars is Lucas
/LM

 

I'll grant you that Star Wars typically has more...linear and straight forward uses for their characters. But Padme would have gotten closure...as in...she died later on. Unless of course the EU would have latched onto it and said she became a secret Jedi later on or something. *shudders*

True that it is pointless. We got what we got.

 

Doesn't Leia say in ROTJ that "she died when I was very young"?

 

Leia was "supposed" to remember Padme? Really? And yet . . . her so-called memories of Padme were incredibly vague.

Handing Luke over to Owen and Beru, while taking Leia with her to Alderaan is not something I saw Padme or any other mother with twins doing. It's amazing and rather disturbing that many fans seemed to think it would have been okay if she had actually done that.

 

I'm with Indyrams on this one. The debate over whether or not it's a plot hole isn't much worth the hassle to me, especially when the scene works so well poetically.

Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn, a baby is technically still "very young".

 

I know; that was in response to someone saying that there couldn't be any closure for the character if she hadn't died right then and there. But Leia told us what happened to her, in ROTJ. Granted, it's not very detailed, but it's also not the same as her never even being mentioned again.

Think of it this way, we spend a large amount of time in the Galactic Senate in the prequels and it is dispensed in a single line of dialogue in ANH. It's not quite the same (Padme is a character and people would be more attached to her than to the Senate), but...

 

She remembers what her mother looked like, she remembers how her mother was like TO her. And she also remembers that her mother was sad about something.
That can't be memories of a new born or even an infant. The face is possible but the other two are not something an infant would have an understanding of. A 2-3 year old can understand kindness and can also see that a parent is sad about something.
So Leia's memeories are consistent with someone 2-4 years old.

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Taken what is said in RotJ that is what is implied to have happened.
Obi-Wan says that Luke and Leia were hidden from their father when they were born. Nothing is mentioned about their mother. The reason was to protect them from the emperor. Luke has no memory at all of his mother but Leia can remeber somethings. The simplest and most logical conclusion is that Leia went with her mother while Luke went to Tatooine. That explains why Leia can remember her mother but Luke can't.
If one looks at the script, this was what did happen. Obi-Wan explains that their mother took Leia to Alderaan and Luke was sent to live with Obi-Wans brother, Owen.

As to how/why this happened. Say that Padme is pregnant and Anakin knows it and he has had some visions about giving his lightsaber to his son. So he thinks that the child is going to be a son.
Then bad things happen and when the twins are born, Padme and Obi-Wan are suprised but debate what to do next. They know that Anakin/the emperor will come looking but both are looking for a son.
So Luke is taken and Padme goes to Alderaan and say she marries Bail and Leia is said to be their daughter. If Anakin comes looking for Padme, he will find her but with a daughter. So he might not suspect that this is his child. He could demand answers from Padme and the cover story is that their son was stillborn or something.
This explains why Padme gave up her son and would explain why she was sad, she missed her son.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

My sentiments exactly. I had assumed that Padme, for whatever reason, left to live with Leia.

I don't see how it is "amazing" or "disturbing" at all. It's not like she did it for "fun" or "favoritism" or anything that would actually merit being called disturbing. She separated the two to save their lives from the monstrous father. A very difficult choice any parent would have to make.

As for why Padme chose to go with Leia and not Luke? I'm not sure. It can be anyone's guess really... Perhaps Bail would have been in a better position, due to his position in the government, to protect Padme vs. two moisture farmers in the outskirts of Tatooine. I'm not sure...

 

Women generally have better memory than men. Apparently, that's still true even when the Force is involved

 

Can't argue with that. My brain is chock-full of useless information.

 

*Alt. universe version where Padme survives to the very end wherein Bail's ship lands on Tatooine and landing ramp opens, out walks Obi-Wan with baby Luke*

Padme: Okay, Obi-Wan, here you take the baby boy off to those moisture farmers. I'll just jaunt back into the ship and grab the girl-
*Insanely crazed Captain Antilles whips out a blaster pistol*
Captain Antilles: Sic semper tyrannis, Amidala!!!!
*shoots Padme in the stomach.*
Padme: Ouch.
Bail: Holy %$&! We can't treat her on here, to Alderaan! Best haste, Captain Antilles! And stop shooting people!
Captain Antilles: Yessir! Sorry, sir. Won't happen again, sir.
Bail: Damn straight!
*Bail's ship takes off, leaving Obi-Wan stranded with baby Luke alone on the dunes of Tatooine.*
Obi-Wan: Well, %$#@.

 

Lucas wanted one of the children to remember her originally, but when It came to writing the script it made more sense that she died. If she had escaped to Alderaan it's hard to believe Vader and the Emperor wouldn't have found her.

 

I think it's actually conceivable that they could have been together with the mother until about the age of three but Luke would not remember his mother even though Leia did vaguely remember her. Three is about the earliest one might expect to have memories dating back to, and it would certainly be understandable if Padme died when the twins were about 36 months old and Luke had no memory of her because his brain simply hadn't developed enough yet even though his sister's had.

Things could have easily played out this way in the movies. If, for example, Anakin turns to the Dark Side in Episode II leading to the split with Padme who then realizes she's preggers. The twins could be born in between II and III while in hiding from Anakin, and Padme could then die in Episode III with the twins being split up after her death.

 

You guys keep creating these excuses for Padme to survive the births of Luke and Leia, due to a comment the latter made in ROTJ. It's like witnessing wishful thinking on the parts of many fans. Leia's so-called memories come off as very vague. Even I thought so when I first saw ROTJ. And as I had stated earlier, I find it hard to believe that Padme would have given away one twin and keep the other. Now some are pushing the idea that Lucas should have allowed Padme to survive and keep both twins, until an early death.

She died. One twin was given to her step-brother-in-law. Her Senate colleague adopted her other twin. End of story. This argument is really getting pointless.

 

What speaks against this is what Obi-Wan says, "To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born." He also said, "That is why your sister remains safely anonymous."
This tells us that something happened right after they were born. The simplest is that they were separated, from each other and from their mother. Since Vader/the Emperor would probably know that their mother was pregnant and could seek her out. And since we know that Luke lived on Tatooine and Leia on Alderaan, they must have been separated at some point. And since Leia can remember her mother but Luke can't. The most logical explanation is that they were separated at birth and Leia went with their mother while Luke went to Tatooine. That is why Leia remembers but Luke does not.
If both Luke and Leia were with their mother until they were three, why were they split after that?
Because she died? If Bail took Leia in and did that without raising any red flags, why couldn't he do that for Luke as well?

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

The script and the story conferences both tell us that Leia was taken by Lady Skywalker to Alderaan while Luke was taken to Tatooine to live with Ben's relatives. The story was changed. The changed version may make more sense to you, but that doesn't mean that that's the way the story always was. It was originally intended another way, and nothing that was tied to that older version of the story has been removed from Jedi, so it's not an unreasonable idea that people draw. It turns out not to match the prequels, but it can't be unreasonable because it's what the movie was originally premised on and the lines haven't been changed.

(I know that Leia could probably sense Padme through the Force, that this is one possible retcon.)

 

They aren't excuses. Leia can remember her real mother, that is clearly stated in RotJ. Luke however can't. Based on RotJ, the simplest and most logical explanation is that Leia lived with her mother for some time and thus she remembers her. Luke however were separated from his mother after he was born and that is why he remembers nothing.
If we look into the RotJ script we see that this was the intended backstory at the time. Leia lived with her mother until the mother died. Luke never knew her.
So clearly Lucas DID intend for "Padme" to give up one of her children and keep the other.
He later changed his mind but that does not change what he wrote for RotJ.
It is perfectly possible that she gave up one child and kept the other and simple suggestions have been given in this thread.

We know what happened in RotS, that is not in question. What can be discussed how RotS matches with was said in RotJ. If it makes sense, how can Leia remember but Luke can't. The most popular fan-theory is the Force. But that creates an even bigger problem, why doesn't Luke remember?
Could this have been done in another way, one that fits better with RotJ?
Yes, if Padme had been pregnant in AotC and Anakin had gone missing. She gives birth between films, Luke is hidden but she keeps Leia and the latter is presented as Bail's daughter.
Not terribly difficult or far-fetched. Lucas didn't want that and that is totally his choice as story teller.
But it was perfectly possible.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

I don't see why. It is quite reasonable to believe that they were hidden from their father by their mother or along with their mother. Indeed, the whole premise of the thread is that Leia remained with her mother while in hiding. I'm simply saying that it would also have been possible for Luke to be with them albeit have no memory.

I don't see how that has anything to do with it. That comes down to the fact, basically, that she wasn't using the surname Skywalker and wasn't using the Force.

Yes, that is certainly some catalyst that might occasion the separation of the twins. My wife's grandmother was separated from her siblings when her mother died because different family members took them in. I suppose it was considered too much of a hardship to take them all in one household.

I don't know, but the reasons for splitting them up certainly would not have gotten worse after Padme's death. It certainly makes no less sense than how it was depicted in Episode III when they were apparently separated just for the bloody hell of it.

 

By that logic - we might as well not discuss or analyze anything. Because what the movie showed is how it went, thus "End of story". We know that nothing we say will change how it ended up. We're simply pointing out that RotJ clearly had another version of events and Lucas changed them for whatever reason. Her memories were "vague" as in - she was a child and remembered them. I don't know anyone that have memories immediately when they were born - vague or not. How could a baby recognize, in a split second she saw her mom that she was "beautiful, but sad"?

And I reject the argument about the Force. I'm tired of the Force being used to describe every stupid thing that pops up in the movie. "How does Dooku - a man that is nearly a 100 years old do flips?" "...uh...the Force?" "How does Leia remember her mother in any detail, even vague ones?" "....the Force?" "What are the odds of Anakin blowing up the Trade Federation ship?" "...the Force?"

 

Maybe that's why I like the Living Force idea that Qui-Gon clings to, that the Force has a will and actions can play out according to that will.