Saga Did Anakin truly bring Balance to the Force?

No, he didn't. Not the chosen one of Jedi prophecy. She ends up being an archetypal chosen one, because as he says, she ends up becoming the Supreme Chancellor and restores the Republic to what it was.

In the same book he confirms that Anakin is indeed the Chosen One.

 

My apologies, I thought he meant that the prophecy referred to Leia. Do you have a quote on hand - my memory is clearly failing me.

 

The prophecy is not referred to at all in relation to Leia. She's simply the one that ended up chosen as the leader of the Republic and the one who managed to restore/renew it:

"By the end of the trilogy Luke would have rebuilt much of the Jedi, and we would have the renewal of the New Republic, with Leia, Senator Organa, becoming the Supreme Chancellor in charge of everything. So she ended up being the chosen one."

 

Ah, I see how I was confused by that quote. Thanks for providing that.

 

I can't be sure if I am remembering this correctly, since it's been a long time. I thought around the time when the NJO came out that George mentioned something about Anakin being the Chosen One but Luke being the fully realized potential of Anakin (ie what Anakin could've been if he hadn't fallen). So Anakin killing Palpatine brought balance to the Force, because Palpatine was too much of a very strong Dark Side influence. Then Luke helped heal the damage done, both by the failings of the Jedi Order in the Old Republic and by Palpatine & Vader. Leia healed the political damage when she became Chief of State of the New Republic.

One thing that I think could've helped people understand the PT better was if George had made The Clone Wars tv series first and then released it after AOTC came out. So then people could've watched it before seeing ROTS. I did my own re-watch like this before season 7 came out, and it definitely helped me appreciate the PT more. Now with season 7, I think it'd be even better. I think George would've had to start making Clone Wars first so he'd have enough time to make it. In retrospect. there really was just too much material to cover in a trilogy of movies.

 

I have always looked at the 'prophecy' as being much more important as a meta-narrative, and a stylised way to convey the grand struggle between good and evil in the saga, and to an extent the exploration of what it means to have a destiny. Now, those words can get thrown about quite a bit, and indeed, poor writing does make them intrude unhelpfully on an otherwise compelling human drama. But these grand, slightly mythical ideas are also reflections of some of the key emotions of the human drama - the realisation of dreams, the denial or confrontation with self, and so on, all at play within Anakin's own struggle. So, in terms of linear impact, yes, the prophecy seems almost a dud; but it can be read as the PT's language of fate and struggle which directs attention to the OT's own - Luke, it is your destiny; He is the Chosen One; What of the one who will bring balance to the Force?

The order in which the material has been presented to the viewer does make it difficult to piece together consistent themes, because some of the development has happened back to front. But I think the thing most affected is the way the story is told, rather than its actual content. Sometimes the PT is barraged for its undue focus on things which don't matter, or lack the richness of the OT. Which seems, in the end, to amount to the wish: 'I wish Anakin hadn't brought balance to the Force in that way, or as explained here'.

 

In the Disney Universe? for me Anakin Skywalker was not the Chosen One but Rey its hard to believe that Anakin Skywalker is still the Chosen One in Disney Canon when Rey she defeated Palpatine in Combat and she will going to Restore the Jedi Order it doesnt matter how many Retcons there will be for me Rey is the True Chosen One in the Disney Universe or Disney Timeline

In Lucas Universe for me Anakin Skywalker was the Chosen One or Leia or the Skywalker Family

 

First, in the OT, at times the bad guys says "It is your destiny" but that is clearly them trying to manipulate Luke or break his will and make him give up. So it is not really destiny, it is what they want to happen. Even Yoda and Obi-Wan try to manipulate Luke so them saying "You must face Darth Vader again." could be seen as them telling Luke things to get him to act in certain ways.

Second, having some meta-commentary about destiny or such things matter much less than the primary goal of telling a good story. And to me, the prophecy did not add much and instead detracted so net negative to me. And as I said, if the prophecy is not shown to have an impact on the character of Anakin, then what exploration does the PT do?
Instead it just seems added to make the story seem more grand and epic.
But to me, making a character some chosen one and not doing much with it, that is a bit lazy.
It is just "something, something, prophecy. There Epic story!"

Thirdly, adding a prophecy raises questions about character agency, do they have free will or are they just drones that do what ever fate says must happen?

I do not follow much of the PT EU but to me, it seems to in part exist to patch holes in the narrative of the PT films. Stuff that the films don't bother to explain or do not have time for are dealt with in some book or TV series.
But to me, that does not solve the problem. If a film has holes in it and then some book comes along, some years later, and explains what happened. That still leaves a film with holes in it.
I judge the films on what is IN the films. Not what some book says because the film did not come with the disclaimer, "You must read these 13 books before seeing this film."

Lastly, about Anakin brining balance. The common complaint I have seen is that it is not needed and detracts from a father saving his son. That is drama enough. An evil man, moved by the love of his son, breaks the chains he made for himself and kills his evil master and rejects his hate and the prison they made. And he dies a good man, finally at peace. Adding "Oh and he brought balance to the Force!" That seems tacked on.
Plus is raises unneeded questions like, "Did Vader kill Palpatine to save Luke or did he kill Palpatine because he was the chosen one and the chosen one is supposed to kill Palpatine."

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

I can get behind the criticism here, and I agree with you. Nonetheless, I do think you can have prophetic overtones, and the Chosen One prophecy without having to subscribe dumbly to a deterministic, pre-supposed story. It is a meta-explanation for the lives in the universe and the way in which the Force interacts with those lives. Of course, it is equally fair to say that that detracts from the human drama, especially if the writing is poor - but then, SW has the Force mythos (with all its fateful, quasi-religious overtones) built into its premise.

 

@Samuel Vimes
Yes. Saved me from a long response. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this.

 

Palpatine is still Alive in Rise of Skywalker the Dark Side still exists in the Disney ST Movies how is Anakin Skywalker still the Chosen One?

 

The Chosen One was created by the Whills, and they are the ones manipulating people into following prophecy. They are not omnipotent and can’t intervene to prevent Palpatine from cheating death in those movies. But before Palpatine’s return Anakin fulfilled the essential role of the chosen one by preventing the Jedi from being destroyed.

If that doesn’t satisfy you, the real answer is the sequels aren’t canon and George stated Palpatine never came back.

 

Balance has less to do with the Sith existing than it does with the Sith causing imbalance in the Force. Balance existed during the period of peace before TPM, despite the Sith existing in the shadows, and it returned to balance with the shattering of the Empire at the end of ROTJ.

 

I think the only way for this to make sense is to make Rise of Skywalker Palpatine to be a Clone so Anakin Skywalker defeated the Original Palpatine but im sure Rise of Skywalker Palpatine is a Clone with the Force Spirit of the Original Palpatine

 

“more than a clone, less than a man”. I agree he’s intended to be an essence transfer clone like Dark Empire.

I don’t see why Palpatine returning from the dead conflicts with the prophecy unless we think it says the chosen one will destroy the Sith literally. But aside from Obi-Wan’s line, there’s ambiguity about whats stated in the prophecy Qui-Gon, Yoda, and Mace discuss. The Father believes the Chosen One had a different role entirely.

And because the Whills are the ones working behind the scenes, I don’t think it’s impossible for powerful force users to cheat fate. I’m sure the Whills would have wanted Anakin to kill Palpatine for good but (in the EU and Disney canon) he outsmarted them for a time

 

Well in the EU Anakin Skywalker cant be the Chosen One either since the Sith still existed 100 Years after the Movies i Retcon for that Universe that the Chosen One is the Skywalker Family but i dont know how Disney will interpret the Prophecy of the Chosen One in the New Canon maybe we will know more in the Acolyte Show

 

True. All living beings can contribute to either balance or imbalance. But the particular balance that Anakin restored required the destruction of the Sith, as it was foretold. The implication being that the Sith were the cause of the imbalance.

 

Yes, the implication is that the Sith were causing imbalance at that period of time, and that their ‘destruction’ would restore it. It doesn’t necessarily state what this ‘destruction’ means. In Lucas’ continuity clearly Maul survives and he had something resembling an apprentice. In the Disney continuity Sidious survives in spirit form however was only really ‘realived’ for a few minutes. I’d say that the destruction we are talking about is the continuity of the rule of two.

 

The destruction was the destruction of the Sith (Sidious and Vader). Maul was a crime lord in Lucas' sequels.

 

What I’m saying is that there is, at face value, some ambiguity there, given that Maul could still be described as a Sith (especially in the audiences eyes) and that (as far as I remember) he had a dark side apprentice.

This would need to be explained away, as I said; either Maul isn’t a Sith anymore, or the ‘destruction’ in question was the lineage of the rule of two. Both of these are technicalities of some sort. It’s not a clear cut as all Sith around prior to 4 ABY being dead.

 

Again, here's the issue: The Chosen One Prophecy is sloppy and vague. It leads to more questions than answers.

In universe, in the prequels, even wise Jedi characters aren't clear as to the specifics of it, or if Anakin is indeed the Chosen One. Fans have debated for 20 + years: Does balance mean the destruction of the Sith only? The death of The Emperor? The Clone Wars Mortis arc seems to contradict this. No?

Add to that in TLJ Luke Skywalker states that (after ROTJ) for a long time there was balance. We also hear Anakin's voice in TROS stating that he did, indeed, bring balance.

As I have stated, I agree with @Samuel Vimes the prophecy did not actually ad much in terms of story, and just seems added to make things seem more epic.

For me, it seems like child Anakin needed to have some more gravitas to they slapped on some cookie cutter mythos that didn't really actually affect anything other than the consternation and dubiety amongst fans.

 

Indeed,
Questions that arise from the PT films.
Do the Sith cause the imbalance by just existing?
If so the Force has been unbalanced for a very long time and would be so again when a new sith emerged.
If not this and the imbalance is caused by the Sith being powerful or ruling the galaxy.
We are told that the Sith did rule the galaxy long ago so was the Force unbalanced then?
If yes, was it brought back into balance and was a chosen one involved there?
If not and the Force was balanced by just the Jedi, why would they think a chosen one is needed now?
If it there was no imbalance despite the Sith being powerful and ruling the galaxy, what caused the imbalance now?

All of this are questions that I doubt Lucas wants the audience to ask but because the concept is given so little development and foundation, questions like these pop up.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

No. How does Mortis contradict anything? The Jedi aren't clear wether Anakin is the Chosen One or not, but what the propechy refers to is established in the movies. It refers to someone conceived by the midi-chlorians that is destined to destroy the Sith and (thus) bring balance to the Force. It turns out, as seen in the movies, that Anakin was indeed the Chosen One since he did what had been foretold. The end.

 

It's a failing that the saga doesn't settle on its attitude towards prophecy. Some stories are compelling because of their "more questions than answers" philosophical take, but when you keep trying to integrate that mythos into a concrete character story, you can't keep changing the goalposts. I think that is a legitimate complaint across all three trilogies. I don't think the Chosen One idea was introduced out of laziness (more for a desire to resonate with the Force's philosophical/religious themes), but there is an integration problem with other more factual elements of the saga.

I also frankly think the ST made hard-fault errors with its plot (namely TROS) which made integrating the prophecy as envisioned by Lucas impossible. Which is fine, provided you don't try and keep prophetic themes going anyway, which they annoyingly did.

 

Anakin killed Palpatine and brought balance. What Rey did was stop him from regaing control again and destroying the last Jedi. Anakin even says that he brought balance to the Force to Rey.