Did Bail know Darth Vader's identity?

Looking at a piece of Fan Art, this question came up. Leia grew up in politics within the senate, and in ANH seemed to know of Darth Vader as he to her. Did Bail know Darth Vader was really Anakin Skywalker? He eventually found out in ROTS that Anakin was the father of the twins, so if he knew Vader was Anakin why would he risk Leia like that?

I know the saying that the best hiding spot is out in the open, but that would be a serious risk. So did Bail infact know that Darth Vader- second in command of the Empire, was Leia's real father?

 

I think he probably figured it out.

 

Gee what do you think?

It's not that hard to figure out that Bail Organa probably knew that Anakin turned to the dark side and went crazy and went on a rampage at the Jedi temple with the 501st troopers.

 

As far as the EU is concerned, Bail knew in Dark Lord.

 

See I remember reading it in Dark Lord, but if Bail knew why would he throw Leia into politics. The smartest thing to do would be to have Leia as far away from politics as possible to prevent any meeting whatsoever with Darth Vader and the Emporer.

I know, then we wouldn't have a good movie, and I know Lucas hadn't planned that far ahead, I was just thinking.

 

Perhaps it's the old "Hide-in-plain-sight" idea, where Bail puts her in politics because that's the last place the Emperor or Vader would think to look for the presumed-dead heirs of Anakin Skywalker.

 

Looking at a piece of Fan Art, this question came up. Leia grew up in politics within the senate, and in ANH seemed to know of Darth Vader as he to her. Did Bail know Darth Vader was really Anakin Skywalker?

Since he was part of the conspiracy to hide the twins, yeah, I'm thinking he did.

 

But when they did that they assumed Anakin/Darth Vader was dead. They were hiding the twins from the Emporer. It's not Vader they were originally hiding the twins from- it was from Palpataine.

 

Yeah, after thinking about it - I'm going to say Bail did not know. (I know he knows in the EU, but I'm just going to go with what the films present)

1. As already mentioned, everybody thought Anakin was dead as of the end of ROTS. They were hiding the twins from Palpatine.

2. Yoda and Obi-Wan never refer to Anakin as Darth Vader in front of Bail. By the time Darth Vader makes his first public appearance, Yoda and Obi-Wan were already in hiding and out of contact. So Bail didn't have any evidence that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker.

3. Anakin Skywalker was a well-known person throughout the galaxy - he was the hero of the Clone Wars. Yet nobody assumed Darth Vader was really Anakin Skywalker, so why should Bail? He knew Palpatine was Darth Sidious, and he knew that Count Dooku was once his apprentice (and being a Senator, I'm sure he heard about Darth Maul). So Bail probably thought Vader was just the Emperor's new Sith apprentice, just as everybody else thought of him as the Emperor's new enforcer.

 

Everybody did NOT think that Anakin was dead. Obi-Wan left it up to the Force, and between him and Yoda, one of them would have felt it if he had died. Further, immediately after ROTS, when Palpatine tells the galaxy "okay, here is Darth Vader" they would have known for sure he didn't die. Yoda and Obi-Wan knew that Anakin Skywalker = Darth Vader.

They never refer to him as Darth Vader on screen, you mean. What they told or didn't tell Bail "off-camera", we don't know.

Yoda and Kenobi had knowledge about Darth Vader that nobody else would have had access to, because they had access to the Jedi Temple security system. Nobody outside of the two Jedi probably figured it out, but they knew, they heard Palpatine call Anakin Lord Vader. Yoda and Kenobi knew full well who Darth Vader was, and had plenty of opportunity to inform Bail Organa on the asteroid base. Just because it isn't seen on film doesn't mean it never happened. Further, considering Bail Organa was going to be raising one of Anakin/Vader's daughters, it would only have been prudent for the Jedi to let him know the dangers he faced should he ever be discovered. They simply would not have let him take Leia without making him aware of the potential risks. Bail Organa must have known that Anakin Skywalker was Darth Vader.

 

Yeah - Yoda and Obi-Wan knew that Anakin's Sith name was Darth Vader. But they are the only ones we know for sure are aware of this.

Well - obviously if Yoda and/or Obi-Wan talked to (or in front of) Bail about Anakin being Darth Vader, then Bail would know. But we have no reason to think Bail had this information - he doesn't do or say anything to inidicate this.

Well - after Bail said he would adopt Leia because he and his wife always wanted a little girl, he pretty much left the two Jedi alone. As it is, Bail was one of the senators who start the rebel alliance, and allows Leia to follow in his (and Padme's) footsteps. If Yoda and Obi-Wan told Bail off-screen that Vader = Anakin so that he would know all the risks and act appropriate, then Bail completely ignored them by making himself a target, and allowing Leia to be a senator and a leader in the alliance.

 

Maybe Yoda and Obi would've felt Anakin die, but in Dark Lord it states that Obi Wan believed Anakin to be dead. One day, he's jc'ing in the cantina when he see's a holo on the holonet thats a few weeks old, showing Darth Vader in dark clad armor and all. I doubt they would contact Bail seeing as alot of off-world communications are monitored and that would give away his refuge spot.

Yoda seemed to know he was alive, because in ESB he's training Luke to kill Vader, but Obi Wan certainly didn't know he survived till Dark Lord.

 

exactly when Obi-Wan got confirmation that Vader was alive isn't really my point, though. There is a great deal of time that Yoda, Kenobi, and Organa spend on that asteroid that we don't witness as part of the movie, and It is entirely likely that if Yoda had somehow failed to recount what was going on to Bail as Bail was rescuing him from his confrontation with Palpatine on Coruscant, on their way to that asteroid, that once Kenobi got there, surely they must have briefed him in. It is mind boggling that neither Kenobi or Yoda would have bothered to tell Bail Organa what happened to Anakin. Surely, Anakin = Vader MUST have come up in conversation at least once while Bail was either transporting Yoda from Coruscant, or after Obi-Wan arrived.

 

Yes, Bail knew who Vader was. Not telling him the whole story would have been silly.

 

Depending upon which source you're looking at, the whole thing about being able to sense through the Force whether someone has died gets varying degrees of emphasis. Michael Reaves, for example, emphasizes it strongly in Jedi Twilight ( Pavan assumes Anakin Skywalker to be dead, however, but they were apparently not close ).

And there's this:
To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born.

 

I agree with Moojieba's points; I don't think Bail knew. Obi-Wan went to Mustafar for a final showdown with Anakin and when he returned, I'm sure Bail assumed that Anakin was destroyed. The fact that Anakin Skywalker was never heard from again after that point only strengthened his position. He might have found Darth Vader's sudden ascension to be puzzling, but there is such a profound difference in his voice and physical appearance that I don't really see why Bail or anyone would connect the dots.

 

Arawn_Fenn's quote in the previous post pretty much gives it away.

"To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born."

Okay, what does this statement tell us? First, it establishes that the twins were being protected from the Emperor by being hidden...but, if they didn't know that Anakin = Darth Vader, the part about being hidden from your father is completely unnecessary. In order for the twins to be hidden from their father, their father must still be alive for them to be hidden from. If he were dead, Obi-Wan could still have said that the twins were hidden from the Emperor, but, the being hidden from their father clearly establishes that Obi-Wan knew Anakin was alive. Bail Organa was one of those doing the hiding. He knew that Anakin Skywalker was the father, he personally witnessed aspects of the slaughter at the temple, and he was in the extended presence of the only two surviving Jedi who knew that Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were the same, who let him take one of Anakin's children with him to raise. Sorry, it is simply inconceivable to take all those facts into consideration and still conclude that Bail Organa remained ignorant of Leia's parentage, including whatever alter egos they might have. Bail knew Luke and Leia's father was Darth Vader, period. It is even possible, and likely even, that Owen Lars knew the truth as well. His comments to Beru, after she remarks "Owen, he can't stay here forever, he has too much of his father in him", he counters with "That's what I'm afraid of". Perhaps that merely indicates his belief that Anakin was simply an adventurous Jedi...However, it is far more likely that he knows exactly what the deal is. When Kenobi delivered Luke to the Lars homestead, it is illogical for them not ask the circumstances that brought Luke to their home. It is also illogical for Kenobi to have lied about it. Owen and Beru, as well as Bail and his wife had a right to be fully informed of the potential dangers they faced by raising the children of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.

 

When he says they were hidden from the Emporer to be protected from their father it could be simply just the writing.

They were both hidden so that the Emporer would not find them. They assumed the Emporer would be looking because he had just lost his goldenboy apprentice. Obi Wan finds out Darth Vader is alive a few months after ROTS- once he is a hermit on Tatooine, in isolation. You could assume that Obi Wan would've contacted Bail to tell him, but most off planet communicators is monitored. Especially if such a remote planet like Tatooine was contacting a Senator- a little sketchy if you ask me.

Yoda probably figured it out, he would've sensed Anakin/Vaders emense force sensitivity. He would've also felt the darkside continue to grow and prevail, so it makes sense that Yoda knew. However, Obi Wan is telling Luke this about Leia being his sister. They were originally hidden from the Emporer, and what mattered was that Luke, being the one they chose to train, was in care of Obi Wan who knew Vader= Anakin. Bail had Leia, the spare, and it would be safer if Bail DID NOT KNOW. All it would take is Vader to look into Bail's mind for a second, and he'd know. Bail would be living in constant fear of Vader connecting the dots, and his fear would give him away. It could also cause him to act shady, sheilding Leia and keeping her within their palace. That would look suspicious and then Vader could figure it out again. As long as Bail didn't know, he didn't have the fear that Leia would be discovered.

 

You are missing the point...if the comment was merely to demonstrate that the twins were being hidden from the Emperor,

"to protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden" would have been sufficient. By making it "to protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father" implies that their father was still alive, and that Yoda, Kenobi and Bail knew he was alive. "From your father" links their father with the Emperor. It also implies that they were being hidden from him at the time the twins were sent into hiding, not months later.

 

But they don't know he's alive! Obi-Wan's mission wasn't to cripple Anakin--it was to end him. That he survived because of the machinations of the Emperor was entirely unknown to Obi-Wan. The quote from ROTJ that you are using is confusing, but it's a symptom of the disconnect between the two trilogies, not a clue that Bail Organa knew Vader's identity.

 

If they knew for a fact that Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader died, then his comment to Luke in ROTJ is unncessary. That is my point. ROTJ specifically mentions that the twins were hidden from their father...if they thought their father was dead, then mentioning Vader in that sentence is completely unnecessary. I am not saying Obi-Wan knew everything that was going on with the transformation into the walking talking cyborg, but, he knew, or at least suspected, that Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader did not die on Mustafar. Once he sees the footage on Tatooine later, and sees Vader in the suit for the first time, his intuition is confirmed, and he now knows what Vader looks like in the black suit. It is never stated that Obi-Wan thought Anakin/Vader died on Mustafar. When you look at everything together, and apply a reasoned logic to it, it only makes sense that Bail Organa would have been kept in the loop regarding Anakin's descent into evil. For him not to know, too many things that seem illogical must occur.

We must believe that after he witnesses the assault on the Jedi temple, and picks up Yoda after his battle with Palpatine, that Bail never discussed with Yoda what was going on with the temple burning, and why the Jedi were suddenly under assault from the Clonetroopers.

We must believe that during the entire time it took for Bail and Yoda to take the Corvette to the hidden asteroid, that he wasn't smart enough to ask the blatantly obvious questions, or that he did ask, and Yoda refused to answer.

We must believe that after Obi-Wan Kenobi arrives on that asteroid with Padme, that Bail chooses to remain ignorant of the situation then as well. We must believe that the same questions he didn't bother to ask Yoda on the trip over there remain unasked after Kenobi arrives.

We must believe that despite her husband breaking her heart and betraying the Republic, that Padme remained silent the entire time she was on the asteroid before giving birth and dying, and that Anakin's role as the father of the twins remained a mystery. It simply isn't likely that he is gonna witness the birth of the twins, and never ask who the father is.

We must believe that after finding out who the father is, when the time came to hide the twins, that Bail never bothered to ask Kenobi what happened to Anakin, and why he couldn't raise his own children. Again, this is just illogical. Certainly Bail must have been curious about the father, and why he wasn't there.

We must believe that Bail Organa never asked why it was so important to hide the twins, despite two Jedi Masters insisting that it had to be done. I would like to think Bail was curious enough to ask Yoda or Kenobi why...if he didn't, that just makes him seem like a simpleton, incapable of using his brain.

We must believe that Bail never bothered to find out how dangerous taking Leia might be. It is most likely that this type of conversation occurred after he agreed to take Leia, but before leaving. Only an idiot would have not bothered to find out if taking her meant any potential danger.

Sorry, someone in Bail's position, a Senator, obviously a highly intelligent man, is going to ask questions about what was transpiring. He is also going to be smart enough to know when he is being bluffed. The Jedi have always treated Bail with respect, there is no reason to assume that they would lie to Bail about what was going on, just like there is no reason to assume that Bail didn't bother to find out. Bail would have asked, and the Jedi would have answered.

The only way logically that it makes sense that Bail was kept in the dark is to accept that he is a complete moron, devoid of even the most rudimentary analytical skills. A Galactic Senator does not become a Senator by being an ignoramus. To assume Bail didn't know would have to assume that Bail was an ignoramus to not ask the obvious questions.

If any one of us had been in his situation, we would have been asking questions left and right. We simply wouldn't have accepted everything we saw at face value.

On a side no

 

But...they don't have to lie. The answer to all of Bail's questions comes back to Anakin, not Darth Vader. Anakin betrayed the Jedi and led the assault on the temple. Anakin is the father of the twins. Obi-Wan faced Anakin on Mustafar and (apparently) destroyed him. They must hide the twins because, as Anakin's progeny, they are powerful and could be manipulated by the Emperor or his disciples. Bail thinks Anakin turned to evil and was killed by the Jedi--that shameful history alone would be enough to keep it a secret from Leia. As for Bail asking if there's any danger--as you say, Bail is a smart man. He knows the danger of taking Leia is inherent. Padme gave birth in secret on a remote asteroid and they faked her pregnancy at the funeral--it should be pretty clear to him that he's keeping a dangerous secret.

 

I thought in Dark Lord, he Didn't know for SURE...he suspected, but no one "told" him or anything....


Maybe I'm mistaken...

 

Bail knew in Dark Lord, and so did Obi-Wan by the end of the book; he saw a news holo on the Kashyyk holocaust.

 

Bail knew who vader was, and I am sure the Lars's knew too. I mean, what would you do if someone rode up to your house on one of those weird looking animals like Obi Wan was riding and handed you a baby? I don't think the first thing out of Auntie's mouth was "SURE!!"