Did Darth Plagueis create Anakin Skywalker?

It says it in the new book, the movie script, and by Lucas that he was created by the force. How can you argue that, page 133 in the rise of darth Vader book, look it up, then post a message.

 

Do I think that Plageius is the one responsible for the creation of Anakin Skywalker? Answer Yes, and here is why.

Palpatine does mix truth with lies and I think the lie was that Plageius could, in fact, keep people from death. If you think about it, having an unknowing and unsuspecting slave on some backwater planet as the surrogate for this midichlorian created child is perfect. Who the heck is going to either a) listen to b)care about c) believe some poor slaves story of what in her mind is emmaculate conception. They would think that she is full of it if anyone ever listened to her at all to begin with. The advantage to having this child born as a slave is also very obvious, you would always know where the child was and when the time was right you could take the child and mold him into the ultimate sith apprentice. Some on this post have said that Shmi would have to be complicite in this. Why? She would have no idea of why or how this happened. The more likely scenario is, the dark jedi crave most what? Power...Plageius created this child to one day replace Palpatine as a new Sith apprentice and this was done without Palpatines knowledge. It was done to a slave on a backwater planet so that no one of any consequence would know about it and if they did would not believe it anyway. The slave part keeps the boy in one place so that Plageius knows where he is so that when he is the proper age he can be taken as a new and very powerful Sith apprentice. At some point Palpatine finds out and knowing his days may be numbered, decides to kill Plageius and become the master himself craving the power of Plageius and also wanting this powerful new apprentice for himself so that he can rule the galaxy. Perhaps not knowing exactly where Anakin is or maybe he does that is unclear. Either way it gives new meaning to the other movies. Perhaps, at the end of episode 1, Palpatine hears of this boy and realizes that this is the creation of his former master, hence, the reason why Palpatine says he will be, "watching him very closely". Throughout his training Palpatine secretly plants seeds to turn him and gains his trust. We know this by Palpatines knowledge of Anakins relationship with Padme' and his knowledge of what Anakin did to the sand people. Also, the fact that Anakin is allowed to be raised by his mother plays a large role in his turning as he has connections that lead to jealousy, anger, greed, and envy. This is referenced in the Jedi council debate over whether or not to let Anakin train to become a Jedi. All of which would lead one to the dark side. So as I said before, personally, I believe the truth was Plageius could and did manipulate midiochlorians to create life and that life was Anakins, the lie was Palpatines expanding on this to include the ability to keep people from death as this only acted as a catalyst to put the idea in Anakins head that through the dark side he could save Padme' making it very desirable to him. The irony is that you could live on through the force just not in physical form and not through the power of the dark side either. Qui Gon, Obi Wan, Yoda, and even Anakin do this in the following movies.

As to the posting that states that Maul was the apprentice for 30 years/since birth I don't believe is right. Regardless of whether this comes from some book in the EU. In Phantom Palpatine is in the early stages of his political career and it is likely that Plageius hasn't been dead for all that long at this point. After all, during the early parts of the movie Sidious introduces his apprentice to the trade federation indicating that his relationship to Sidious and his plans were kind of early on (this is more contextual theory than anything else). There are a lot of things from the EU that were completely ignored. The very first books The three sequels "authorized" by Lucas and written by Timothy Zahn weren't kept in mind. Especially with regard to the Tree in The Empire Strikes Back. According to the books, the reason why the tree has power is that Yoda had been chased to Dagobah by a dark j

 

If a Sith Lord influenced the Midichlorians, then it's not the will of the Force, but the will of the Sith. If it was just the Force influencing the Midichlorians, without a Sith Lord's involvement, then it's the will of the Force.

Palpatine could've been influencing the Midichlorians to keep Anakin alive, or he could've been just showing a tiny fraction of compassion and decency.

 

I think it is a bit naive to say that the will of the Sith can't
ever coincide with the will of the force when the Sith
are force adept. Just as Anakin helps bring balance to the force,
Palpatine does as well. The Jedi become complacent and
Mace himself says the ability to use the force is diminshed.
The transpiring of ROTS allows for a later generation's fire
to be rekindled. Palpatine burns the village to save it.

 

I think Plagueis created Anakin. Why else would Lucas mention him? And Anakin just happen to have no father...

 

Sinister said: "If a Sith Lord influenced the Midichlorians, then it's not the will of the Force, but the will of the Sith. If it was just the Force influencing the Midichlorians, without a Sith Lord's involvement, then it's the will of the Force."

If the force allows itself to be manipulated by the Sith, then it is still the WOTF. The Sith would seed their own demise -- sweet irony!

 

It's telling in the first draft of ROTS, Palpatine says that he manipulated the Midichlorians. Palpatine, not the Force. The irony is that he created the same man who would kill him one day, undoing all the damage they wrought.

 

well if plagueis created anakin then was killed by sidious then were did darth maul come from? he was supposedly raised from birth by sidious and he's well over 9 years old! did the midis take 20+ years to form anakin??

if any sith created anakin it was sidious.

 

We all know that in an earlier draft of the script, it was Sidious who created Anakin, but that's beside the main point. There's really no conflict here. The Force flows through all living things, including the Sith. The Force, acting through a Sith Lord (Plagueis, Sidious, JarJar - take your pick), created Anakin, who eventually destroys the Sith, thereby bringing balance to the Force. The prophecy is that a Chosen One will bring balance to the Force. This Chosen One will be created by the midiclorians, as Anakin was. This in no way precludes the Sith from having influenced the midiclorians into creating him. The irony is that the Sith are seeking to create the ultimate weapon, and that weapon destroys them!

 

Migel Vos, I have the movie(s) covered. There is no SW movie that definitively states that Anakin was a direct property of the Force or even an indirect property. Qui-Gonn states that it is "possible" that Anakin was created by midichlorians. This was neither affirmed nor denied through any direct logical conclusions by any live members of any cast of characters of any SW movie.

Also by being created by the Force, this is exactly what we are all trying to say. Obviously Anakin was not created by anybody or anything without the Force. The Force is involved in his creation, we all beleive that. How? By Plaguis or Sidious or some other Sith or directly by flying midichlorians. But we know the Force was involved. Don't play that word game, no more.

 

The NEC clearly states that Plagueis did indeed create Anakin, so why is this even still an issue?

 

If it was Plagueis, and not Sidious, who created Anakin, then when did he do it? I see two possibilities:

(1) Plagueis started the process before Maul was born (Maul probably being about 25 years old in TPM), and it took a long time to reach the development where a normal pregnancy begins. Shmi literally could've been carrying Anakin for virtually her entire life until she achived "pregnancy" as we understand the term.

(2) Plagueis was alive 9 years and 9 months prior to TPM (and however many months it's been since Anakin reached his last birthday), which means either that (1) Maul's training started when he was a teenager (certainly possible), or (2) Maul was being trained while Plagueis is still alive, suggesting that either Plagueis was unaware of Maul, or didn't object to this violation of the Rule of Two.

Here's an idea: Plagueis reveals to Sidious that he's manipulated the midiclorians to create life, so Sidious, fearing this new Force creation will be his replacment, kills Plagueis and recruits a teenage Zabrak as his apprentice, perhaps always thinking that he'll one day find this Force-created being and have him succeed whomever is then his apprentice (Tyranus). According to the following website, Maul was recruited at age 12, so it does tend to fit.

http://members.aol.com/PrinceG0R0/sith.html

On the other hand, the Wikipedia entry for Maul says, "Born circa 57 BBY, Darth Maul was the first known apprentice to Darth Sidious. A Zabrak originally from Iridonia, Maul had no memories of his homeworld or family, having been kidnapped as an infant by Sidious." If he was an infant, then was Sidious warming his bottles and changing his diapers?

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Quoted from the NEC, page 32:

It is unclear how Palpatine fell under the mentorship of the Sith Lord Darth Plagueis, and little is known of Plagueis's own career. A mystic obsessed with eternal life, Plageuis is believed to have possessed knowledge that could sustain those who were dying, and perhaps had even gained the ability to use midi-chlorians to draw new life directly from the wellspring of the Force. Palpatine - under the Sith name Darth Sidious - learned dark side traditions from Plagueis, but grew concerned over his Master's stated intentions to create life from nothing. The child that resulted from this Force miracle, Plagueis insisted, would be the living embodiment of the Force itself - and at that moment, Sidious knew that his Master was discussing Sidious's replacement. Soon after, Sidious killed Darth Plagueis in his sleep. The work necessary to create a Force-conceived child continued, however. It is unclear whether Plagueis had initiated the process before his death, or whether Sidious had implemented his former Master's scheme for his own dark purposes.

In keeping with the Sith rule, Sidious accelerated the training of his own pet project, the Zabrak child called Maul. Unknown to Plagueis, Sidious had taken the Zabrak from his homeworld of Iridonia and, in a dark reflection of the Jedi Order's own training methods, began tutoring Maul in the art of cruelty and manipulation. Droids did most of the day-to-day work, for Sidious needed to maintain his role as Senator of Naboo. But whenever Sidious returned to his secret Coruscant lair, he gave Maul lessons in how to take a blow without flinching and how to kill lesser creatures without mercy.

On Tatooine, the slave Shmi Skywalker had given birth to a child more powerful in the Force than any other being in history - the apparent product of forbidden research initiated by Darth Plagueis and taken up by Darth Sidious. This boy, Anakin Skywalker, had seemingly not been conceived by a human father, but by the midi-chlorians themselves. Palpatine kept a close watch on Anakin as the boy grew. If trained as a Sith apprentice, such a child could be vastly more powerful than Maul.

I really don't see how this can be debated any longer; the main topic of the poll has been satisfied by a canon source.

 

I think it is a bit naive to say that the will of the Sith can't
ever coincide with the will of the force when the Sith
are force adept.

Naive? You yourself had admitted on other threads that
the Sith bring the force unbalanced. That Anakin balances
the force by destroying the Sith because, as you like
to say, the "Circle of life" harmony of nature thing.
So why is it that the Sith are so bad and need erradication
on one hand, but all of the sudden, the aims of the Sith
can be apart of some master plan?

Pick an argument.

 

Because Lucas didn't say so. He just said that it's up to us to decide. There is no right or wrong answer. Besides, the entry in the NEC is vague as well. It is unclear whether Plagueis had initiated the process before his death, or whether Sidious had implemented his former Master's scheme for his own dark purposes.

Thus the debate is far from settled. In fact, it fits with Lucas stance.

 

...the apparent product of forbidden research initiated by Darth Plagueis and taken up by Darth Sidious.

At least the NEC puts to rest one portion of the debate - whether or not Plagueis actually existed in the first place.

 

I'm not sure what the NEC is so I won't comment on that. Howvere if it is a reliable source, then I ave this to say:

Watching the movie again the other day, especially the scene at the Opera, I think Palpy implies heavily that Palgueis created Anakin. This, at the very least I believe, is what he wanted Anakin to think. If it has been confirmed by a canon source, well then there we go.

 

Sids choreographs his pitch to Anakin perfectly. He knows of Anakin's deepest hopes and his darkest fears. Sids will tell Anakin exactly what he needs to hear in order to secure his eventual services. The opera was Sids artfully closing the deal -- Anakin wants to be the most powerful Jedi ever and wants also to save people (especially Padme) from dying. Palps offers Anakin the ability to accomplish both and IMO delivers on neither promise (after all, Obi-Wan, who may not have been more powerful, defeated Anakin and ended his hopes at being the most powerful Jedi -- besides, Luke later defeats him . . . beaten by a boy!)

Something that intruiges me still -- as Palps orders the clones to find Yoda after their senate pod duel, he orders his shuttle prepared due to a sensing that Vader is in grave danger. Yet Anakin has not yet fallen to Obi-Wan on Mustafar and is actually on the attack for much of the duel. It has been mentioned many times on these boards that perhaps Sids sent Anakin to the lava planet knowing that his enormous powers would somehow be reduced there, making him less of a threat and a more managable apprentice. Sids seems perfecly happy just finding Vader alive. Rescuing Vader and then having the necessary parts readily on hand right there on Cosucant requred to encase and preserve Vader is more than a little bit suspicious. Admittedly, the time line for the ending sequence collage is unclear due the art of film editing.

I readily admit that Sids tells Yoda Vader will one day become more powerful than either of them, but was that statement more a taunt of his prophesied potential than a Sith manufactured reality? Was Sids merely psyching his "little green friend?" I'd like to see that whole aspect clarified a bit in the coming months and years.

 

The New Essential Chronology. Came out last month.

 

Cut from the film, Yoda tells Sidious that Obi-wan will kill Vader. By the time Sidious says that he can sense Vader is in danger, the duel has moved out into the open where the energy sheild has fallen. The construction of Vader was originally to have taken place over several long days. Hence giving enough time for a suit to be constructed. And BTW, Lucas said that Palpatine didn't want a weakened Vader. So I don't think he planned on the duel happening.

No, he was telling him that if Yoda manages to kill him, he won't be able to kill Vader. The Sith always want the strongest Apprentice.

 

Does anyone else believe that Plagueis must have existed over 1000 years ago? when Sith ruled the galaxy?

Palpatine seemed to believe that the Jedi had record(s) of such a person, and those records we know ended with the last Sith at around 1000 years before TPM. It is also my belief, and to me it is a very strong point, that a Sith of such stature must have been a very powerful individual in the galaxy, and I think that would also include him more towards the pre-Republic times, when Sith did rule...

This argument would render the idea of Plagueis as Anakin's creator as incorrect. 1000 years just does not make it into my ideal of the movie.

There is also the point of mixing fine detail(s), here. Lord Sidious has stated that the ability to cheat death, only one Sith has attained. Is this really the same as creating life from midichlorians? You know, he said "stopping death" with the "Force" and he said "creating life" using "midichlorians". Is this really the same?... I don't know. But possibly it might mean that Plagueis wasn't the only one who could do that. Sith do things and really maybe the archives had no record of Kamino to begin with.

 

Nope. Darth Bane existed one thousand years ago and he died in time. Palugeis is Palpatine's Master. This is confirmed in the novelization, "Labyrinth Of Evil", "Dark Lord" and the information guides. It was also in the earlier draft that's seen in "The Making Of ROTS". Palpatine has knowledge because he was the Apprentice who killed Palugeis in his sleep. You can see it in the film when Ian smiles while describing the fate of Plagueis. He even originally said that Plaugeis didn't even see it coming.

In the novelization, he initially tells Anakin that he knows so much because he studied anicent history, including the Jedi and Sith wars.

 

Darth Sapient, I'm surprized you didn't open up the sky and put your bold GL quotes on me. Did GL not say for himself your answer? Your answer seems to contradict itself slightly when you say that Palpatine's knowledge of Plagueis is found from his studies of "ancient history." This was the only discussion topic, was it not? (I seriously have not read the book, but please don't lead me on either.)

I don't know if Bane made it to books or even comic books or which degree of canon he is after the couple of paragraphs from TPM novelization; this place may be the correct place to discuss all events related to ROTS topics, we make up our own minds [I like just the movies.] The existence of Bane does not necessarily negate the existence of Plageuis concurrently or in another similar time frame (1000 years ago etc.). (how much does fiction touch on the Bane's reign? (just this guy's EU-name, Darth Bane, yuck!)). Plagueis obviously existed and so maybe did Darth Bane. Yes, all Sith Lords die, in time, everybody does, even in SW.

I still don't understand how Palpatine thought that Anakin should have at least heard of Plagueis; that was part of the script- his surprize at Anakin's Jedi ignorance.

It fits, and with what you said...

 

My name is darth-sinister

"One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith Lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the Dark Side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands of years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, the master, and so on. But there could never be any more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies."

--George Lucas, Bill Moyers Time Magazine Interview; 1999.

The Sith are the natural enemy of the Jedi. As George Lucas describes it, the Sith were once in control of the galaxy 1000 years in the past. Unfortunately, the Sith's hunger for conquest got the better of them-so many Sith Lords were vying for ultimate control that it led to infighting among their ranks. Such internecine struggles were exploited by the Jedi Knights of the era, and they were able to turn the tide and defeat the Sith.

As Ki-Adi-Mundi states in Episode I, the Sith have been extinct for a millenium; however, not all were wiped out. A surviving Sith Lord sought to rebuild the order, to retake the galaxy, and to take revenge. This Sith Lord realized the dangers of having too many in the order, so he kept his existence a secret. It would be a long time coming, but he carefully plotted revenge. There would be only two Sith Lords at a time, a master and an apprentice, working in secret, planting the seeds for their eventual rise.

By Episode III, the Sith are ready to reveal themselves. There's no more need for subterfuge, no more need for skulking in the shadows. Darth Sidious, the Sith mastermind, will make good on a 1000-year plot to finally avenge the fallen order, destroy the Jedi Knights, and retake command of the galaxy.

--Star Wars Insider, issue 78; page 60

There's your Lucas quote. As to the novelization, during the intial Darth Plagueis discussion in the Galaxies Theatre, Palpatine is asked how come he knows so much by Anakin. To which he states that he likes to read and collect aincent history. Especially stuff surrounding the Jedi vs Sith era. He plays it up as a legend. When he tells Anakin that he is the missing Sith Lord, he tells him that Darth Plagueis was his Master. Plagueis came long after Bane.

Darth Bane is the star of the upcoming novel "Path To Destruction", which chronicles his life and ho

 

Yes it has...

...apparently...