PT Did Obiwan lie about Master Sifo-Dyas being his master?

On Kamino, Obi tells the Kaminoans that Sifo-Dyas was his master. Was he lying here simply to find the truth of the cloning facility? If so, would this be the only time he lied? Except maybe, to Luke about his Dad.

 

He never told the Kaminoans that Sifo-Dyas was his master. If I recall correctly, he was asked about Sifo-Dyas still being alive. He did indeed act as if he knew about the creation of the clone army because well, he needed to see what was going on.

 

no he told them dias was dead. when they asked him if he was there to see the clones he just said, "sure."

 

Youtube is a thing guys. He did say 'My master" to trick them.

 

It's not a trick per say. Remember that Obi-wan and Anakin refer to Mace as Master as well. He's not really saying that Sifo-Dyas was the Jedi who taught him, but he's referring to him as a Jedi Master who served on the Council and is his senior.

 

Hmmm, interesting. He only refers to him as 'my' master once he learns of the clone army. I do think it was a trick. I remember even as a little kid seeing it in theaters thinking he was referring to Qui-gon.

 

I don't think he's lying so much as choosing his words carefully. I think at this point Obi-Wan is still a Jedi Knight. So any Jedi with the rank of Master could be referred to as "my" master.

 

It is Lama Su who first refers to Sifo-Dyas as "your Master", and I believe Obi Wan is just playing along so as not to get caught up on semantics when there was obviously something more important to discuss. Whether or not Lama Su thinks Obi Wan was Sifo-Dyas's padawan, or Lama Su has some sort of idea that leading members of the Jedi Council (as he thought Sifo-Dyas still was) makes them Masters above all other Jedi was irrelevant to Obi Wan, and just skipped any clarification to get to more important things.

Obi Wan's simply going along with what the Cloners are saying so as to make sure they trust him and thus willing to give up any information he may request.

 

We're on the same page. That's also what I've always thought watching that scene.

By the way, The Kaminoan started referring to Sifo-Dyas as "your Master". Obi-Wan then called him just "Master". Then, after the interlocutor kept calling him "your Master" finally switched to "My Master". That proves the fact that he somehow decided it was a good idea to please the Kaminoan.

Speaking of that scene. It was pretty obvious Obi-Wan had no idea what he was talking about, and that the dealing was somehow a farce. The Kaminoans obviously realised it, but they knew what the army was about, so they carried on.

It was 100% Obi-Wan's fault, his behaviour was really clumsy and he should have figured out something was wrong with those clones.

 

This is another "plot hole" of the trilogy that deserved more screen time. The normal viewer shouldn't have to do research to learn more about the Sifo-Dyas plot point created in episode 2.

 

It would make sense I mean he does have a habit of lying. .......from a certain point of view.

 

Not remembering ever owning an Artoo unit might be another one.

Never finding a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than Mos Eisley can get debunked real fast.

 

This isn't a plot hole. Nor do you need to research it.

 

I must have missed the part of the movie that explains who Sifo-Dyas was and his motives. Obviously, what was told to the Kaminoians was false. It never got re-visited - the who, what, and why, as far as the movie, is not addressed.

Heck, that name doesn't mean anything to us because we never even seen the guy on screen.

Yes, "plot hole" is probably the wrong term to use, but nevertheless, it is something that needed more on-screen explanation.

 

it's not a lie or a plothole. Sifo Dyas was his Elder and a member of jedi council , thus he regards him as one of his masters

 

The Obi-Wan plot is heavily influenced by film noir, and that feeling of ambiguity and confusion is what film noir is all about, where the deeper the protagonist digs, the murkier and more confused the situation becomes. I'm thinking of Chinatown, for example, where what starts innocuously enough with disagreements about water rights soon descends into an ever-deepening realm of conspiracies on top of conspiracies, to where the entire atmosphere of the movie feels soaked in an oppressive claustrophobia of never-ending lies. The purpose of the movie isn't to explain every little detail but to immerse the audience in that atmosphere. So I think the same is true with the Obi-Wan plot. Explaining the Sifo-Dyas plotline isn't really necessary and would only destroy that sense of murky confusion that Lucas is going for.

 

No. Master is just an honorific title for the most part in this sense. Everyone above you in rank is essentially your "master" in universe. Even if they did not train you. Like when the Younglings called Anakin "Master Skywalker" in three despite him only being a knight.

Now if you'll excuse me I am going to go bawl my eyes out now.

 

It isn't a plot hole because you're supposed to glean that Sifo-Dyas didn't do it, but the Sith did.

"I was always worried in Episode II that I was giving away too much in terms of people asking questions about where did the clones really come from. If you go back they mention the fact that Lord Tyranus and Count Dooku are the same person and that Darth Tyranus is the one that started the clones so if your paying attention its very easy to figure out what’s going to happen to the clones, if they will be the ones that will betray everybody. Tough to put in things like that without giving everything away."

--George Lucas, ROTS DVD Commentary.


OBI-WAN: "They say Master Sifo-Dyas placed an order for a Clone Army... at the request of the Senate almost ten years ago. I was under the impression he was killed before that. Did the Council ever authorize the creation of a Clone Army?"

MACE: "No. Whoever placed that order did not have the authorization of the Jedi Council."


OBI-WAN: "Then you must know Master Sifo-Dyas?

JANGO: "Master who?"

OBI-WAN: "Sifo-Dyas. Is he not the Jedi who hired you for this job?"

JANGO: "Never heard of him."

OBI-WAN: "Really?"

JANGO: "I was recruited by a man called Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden."

OBI-WAN: "Curious."


DOOKU: "The Force is with us, Master Sidious."

SIDIOUS: "Welcome home, Lord Tyranus. You have done well."

DOOKU: "I have good news for you, my Lord. The war has begun."

SIDIOUS: "Excellent. Everything is going as planned."

 

So are we supposed to surmise from that that Dooku posed himself as Sifo Dyas?

 

Perhaps, at the time AOTC was written. However, eventually it was confirmed that Sifo-Dyas made the original order.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/sifo-dyas

Dooku may, however, have posed as him after that- contacting them and telling them to expect Jango.

 

Heh, as I said before, "research" is needed to get the full detail of this plot point.

 

No. no research is needed. It is very clear from the movie that we are supposed understand that Dooku and Tyranus are the same man, and that Tyranus hired Jango, Sifo-Dyas died before the Clones would have been ordered, so we can come to the conclusion that yes Dooku did pretend to be Sifo-Dyas.

As Iron_lord points out, it seems the story changed after the movies, and TCW really doesn't clear anything up.

 

You don't need TCW to understand that.

 

I've watched that movie probably 100 times over the past decade plus and I am sorry, I just don't think it is that clear to the non-hardcore, non-message board reading, non-wookipedia reading audience. They glossed over it too quickly without enough clarity in my opinion.