Saga Did Palpatine even need Anakin?

They wouldn't have let in the clones if they weren't with Anakin. More Jedi would have escaped, and Temple defenses would have been raised. Anakin was the most capable Force User to have at his side. Better to have the Chosen One on your side, then trying to kill you.

 

Dooku was a placeholder from the start though, he never considered him as a true apprentice, I mean Dooku was even older than Palpatine, what kind of master would choose an older apprentice for taking his place when the time comes.

Maul was his first choice, but it didn't work well in the Naboo invasion, then he decided on young Skywalker shortly after the Naboo events, who has the highest Force potential. But Palpatine couldn't train him openly due to his works as a Chancellor, so he let inexperienced Obi-Wan to do the job and take experienced former Jedi Master Dooku as a placeholder until Skywalker grows strong enough to be his apprentice. Dooku was destined to be killed by Anakin long before the Clone Wars.

 

Dooku was "older than Palpatine"? In the prime canon, perhaps. However, at the time of ROTJ, the makeup artists (presumably with Lucas' blessing) strove to depict the Emperor as "ancient, not old," as if he were a being shriveled with the weight of having lived for centuries.

An idea which seems to have carried over to Snoke in TFA.

 

There are Clonetroopers already in the Temple. You can see them in the hangar when Anakin tells Mace about Palpatine. So the Jedi wouldn't question the approach of their own allies. Much less the 501st.

He was his Apprentice when Maul was taken out at Naboo and was believed dead. Yes, he was his place holder after finding out about Anakin. But Anakin still had to pass the test, which is why they fought each other during the war. That's why the second kidnapping of the Chancellor was set up to end as it did. But if he failed, then the war would be dragged out. Dooku was indeed powerful, but Anakin was more so.

 

A whole Battalion showing up at the door of the Temple with no Jedi, would have been questioned. Most Battalions were under the direction of a Jedi Master, plus during these dark times would have left the Jedi more suspicious.

 

They would have been questioned, but they would still be let in because they work for the Republic and with the Jedi.

 

I only wish that was the cause. Alas, the Republic era "at their height" jedi come across as sometimes feckless, sometimes reckless passive agressives.

At no point during the advent of these dark times are the jedi shown to be able to accurately or timeously suspect anyone of anything. Except Yoda suspecting that Anakin would be trouble and therefore refusing to give him the training that might have mitigated any potential trouble.

 

The Jedi are suspect of the Sith, because they're the ones behind it all. And they do become suspicious of Palpatine being either corrupt or in league with Sidious.

 

Palpatine needed Anakin because something something the will of the Force something something.

 

Palpatine wished he knew how to quit Anakin.

 

hey talk about the possibility, once. And they all nod their heads as if they've been thinking it for a long time. Not long enough to make any practical conclusions though. They act on their suspicions by sending a naive, vulernable and somehwat alienated Jedi to work for him and spy on him at the same time while the other Jedi spread themselves thinly across the galaxy surrounded by the mysterious clones that conveniently fit the purpose of the army that the Chancellor was so keen to form.

 

They've known that the Sith were behind the war dating back to the Naboo invasion and their return. What they do not think of, is that the Chancellor is the Sith Lord that they've been looking for. They're believing that with Dooku being the visible leader and the mysterious Darth Sidious being the behind the scenes guy, that they're leading the war effort against them. When they ask Anakin to spy on Palpatine, they aren't doing so because they believe that he is a Sith, but because he's become a corrupt politician who has started to cross political lines. So there is no reason to believe that having Anakin spy on Palpatine would be a serious problem, other than Anakin might be biased due to his friendship to the Chancellor.

As to the army, that wasn't entirely the Chancellor's idea. Remember, the Clone Army began production ten years before the war, when Palpatine was still a senator and there was no threat of war. The Military Creation Act was a later piece of legislation that wasn't just something the Chancellor was interested in, but many in the Senate as well. To the Jedi, they don't see what we see.

 

It's not about seeing the evidence we see. They are the Jedi are their height. Not bozos watching a movie.

The audience must never be wiser and more intuitive about galactic matters than the Jedi are. The fact that the corrupt senate motioned the creation of an army is immaterial, unless you are totally naive.

Everything that is to the Chancellor's advantage is as suspect as they claim to find him all of a sudden. Unless you're trying to say that the Jedi consider Palpatine's potential Sith connection and everything else to be merely coincidence.

 

Being at the height of their Order does not make them invincible, nor susceptible to deception.

Except for Alfred Hitchcock who believed in having the audience know about a bomb in a case that is set to go off, but doesn't. The characters do not know that it is there and that it will go off, but the audience is aware.

It is material. The Jedi believe that if the Sith will attack the Republic, they will do so with the Droid Army. They also believe that one of their own would seek to create an army to counter that threat, due to visions of the future.

They doubt that the Sith control the Senate and believe that Dooku was telling tales to create doubt and mistrust, per the Sith's usual modus operandi. They believe that Palpatine is taking advantage of the war, to make a power grab for himself and is not connected to the Sith. There is also a consideration that it could be possible that Sidious is controlling Palpatine, or manipulating him without his being aware of it. That's why they want Anakin to watch him and see how he reacts. They're still hoping that they're wrong and he will relinquish his power. That is why Mace is surprised when Anakin tells him that Palpatine is Sidious. That wast the last thing to enter into his mind. But as Dooku said, by the time the Jedi figure it out, it would be too late.

 

You are relying on the Jedi simply doubting everything, without ever making any contingency plans for if it turns out to be absolutely true until there is unambiguous, incontrovertible, beyond any shadow of doubt, proof.

And that they aren't in the business of uncovering proof of anything after Geonosis.

Demented.

 

Mace told Obi-wan that they will keep an eye on the Senate, but they are still doubtful of Dooku's claims.

OBI-WAN: "Do you believe what Count Dooku said... about Sidious controlling the Senate? It doesn't feel right."

YODA: "Joined the dark side Dooku has. Mmm. Lies, deceit... creating mistrust are his ways now."

MACE: "Nevertheless, I feel we should keep a closer eye on the Senate."

YODA: "I agree."

Three years later, their plan is to have Anakin spy on Palpatine since he trusts him and that can be used to their advantage, to gain proof that he is or isn't a problem. And then they further plan to remove him from office, if he refuses to give up Emergency Powers.

 

The Sith uses truth from a certain point of view, with lies. The Jedi order was blocked, partially due to their Temple being built on top of the old Sith Temple and Palpatine feed off that dark energy. The Jedi had clues, but they were outplayed every step of the way. The Sith had a thousand years to study the Jedi and develop many strategies to destroy them. The Jedi thought the Sith to be dead and didn't prepare for the Sith. The Sith adapted and the Jedi didn't know these new Sith methods.

 

Wow Master Endz-One. That was surprisingly coherent.

I agree, however other than the Order 66 attack he didn't really need Anakin. He even set himself up for the Mace Windu duel, which would never have happened if he hadn't alerted Anakin to his presence.

 

He needed a strong apprentice to destroy the remaining Jedi Order. He couldn't risk being revealed as a Sith and resurrect the reputation of the Jedi Order. The Galaxy and even some of the Empire would turn against him, if Palpatine revealed himself as a Sith.

 

I don't think most of the galaxy knew what a Sith was. Also nobody had any proof that he was a Sith. Granted without Vader, it may have taken the Empire longer to track down and destroy the Jedi. But with the largest military force ruling the galaxy unopposed I think it would have happened regardless.

 

There is no hunting down of the Jedi according to ROTS.

The Jedi are spread thin throughout the galaxy commanding the troops who are about to turn on them.

They were all behind the eight ball. Unless they were lucky enough to be left till last and were cognizant enough of what's happening, like Yoda is. Or were lucky enough to be assumed dead by your troops who took one shot at you from miles away and didn't find any trace of your body. It would seem that if a Jedi hunt was going to be necessary then the depiction of a few Jedi escaping and/or hiding might have been depicted.

There appears to be no need for Anakin to accompany the Troopers to the temple. The Jedi are supposedly completely trusting of the troopers, with no cause or time to suspect them of anything ever. The scene in the temple shows the troopers handling the few occupants comfortably. The younglings in the council chamber would have been short work also.

And at the end of ROTS, Vader's priority seems to standing beside Palpatine as he attends to his priorities, overseeing the construction of a death star. So no urgency to hunt any Jedi whatsoever there.

I guess we shouldn't take Obi Wan literally since he's been hiding on Tatooine all those years and would have no idea what Vader has been up to. Particularly if contact with Bail has been so non-existent in the intervening years that Organa has to beg Obi Wan to consider helping the alliance.

 

After ROTS Vader hunted down the survivors of Order 66. There's more to StarWars than the Movies. You have comics, TV shows, books etc.etc.

 

But the Star Wars movie ROTS doesn't allude to any need for hunting down Jedi. Vader is folding his arms and looking important while the Emperor has moved onto constructing super-weapons. It's all very well saying there's spin off material that concern themselves with survivors being dealt with. But ROTS tries to satisfy the audience as if "and now you know the rest of the story".

If I can coin a useful phrase, the supposed need to hunt down Jedi in spin off shows and books etc "undoes" everything that the prequels achieved.

You shouldn't need spin offs to fill plot holes.

 

There's a gap in time between each movie, fans want to know the story in between these movies and learn more history on Characters. That's what the books, comics and tv shows are for.

 

Time gaps are fine. You can imagine anything you want in a time gap. I can imagine a story where everyone bought eight billion piece jigsaw puzzles that kept them occupied in the time gap.

The books TV shows and comics are made to sell to people who are happy to pay to read and see separate stories from the Saga. They are not supposed to exist to explain plot holes or to take money off people who are not convinced by the movies. because of them.