Did Palpatine's Lightning Attack On Luke Remind Vader Of The Mace Moment?

No doubt a flood of emotions and memories is running through Vader as he witnesses Palpatine's Force Lightning Attack on his son, Luke. Padme would be in those memories, for certain. But, was ONE of those key flashbacks a reminder of that fatal moment where he made the decision to forsake his Jedi heart and become a Sith? That moment during which he witnessed Palpatine and Mace in combat - another moment he HAD to make a quick decision - to either save Mace or to save Palpatine? Does he remember that during this moment in ROTJ - realizing that back then he should have helped MACE and not Palpatine? Does he now realize that that decision had destroyed his whole life - had destroyed Padme's life, destroyed the relationship he could have had all this time with his children? Could destro his SON'S life now as well? Of course,it was mainly his love for Luke that brings him back and makes him FINALLY destroy Palpatine. But I'm pretty certain that he is also consciously trying to correct the mistake he had made so many years ago as well. Save Mace or save Palpatine. Now it was save Luke or save Palpatine. And THIS time, he was going to make the RIGHT decision.

 

Yes, I believe this is one of the main things that he was thinking of. It probably had a huge influence on the choice he made.

 

Agreed, he probably also remembered how it felt when Dooku did it to him.

 

Very nice observation LASTJEDICHOSENONE. Many aspects of these two scenes link up nicely.
(This was actually going to be the basis for the third part of my ROTS/ROTJ thread ).
The Ep3 scene involves Vader "saving" his father-figure, which destroys the Jedi, and brings on the rise of the Empire. Ep6 involves Vader saving his son, which destroys the Sith and the Jedi return.
I think a cool detail this adds to the ROTJ climax is we can now map Vader's reaction beneath his mask using the ROTS scene.
ROTS - The Sith on the floor, trying to fry Mace. Anakin looks at Palpitine with sympathy. He looks at Mace with growing hatred.
ROTJ - Luke on the floor, being fried by the Sith. It is quite obvious now that Vader must be looking at Luke similarly to how he looked at Sidious in the Ep3 scene, and looking at Sidious in a similar way to how he looked at Mace in this scene. Thus, we have two opposite scenes with Anakin/Vader looking from Jedi to Sith, and two totally opposite conflicts within him in each scene. The "reverse" nature is very apparent if you are looking for it.

 

Interesting, you could be right because everyone learns from his mistakes.

-S-

 

The rtoj moment is like a defibulator (for those of you who don't speak geek it's that shocking thing ambulences use to jump start a heart) in rots the lightning moment turned anakin into vader in the rotj it turned vader into anakin. like a defibulator, if a electrical shock can stop a heart it can also restart one.

 

I like this question.
I don't think so. I think that he was thinking about Padme and his mother, and how he missed them when they died. So that now, in Rotj, he doesn't want to loose any other member of his family.

 

The Jedi are his family too, Palpatine just made him think they weren't.

I'll say he was definitely reflecting on his life there; which included basically everything we've seen in the movies, including Mace. Mace may have been tough on him, but he always had his best interests at heart; whereas Palpatine always never had that.

- O_F

 

Great thoughts, everyone! And, thanks, i_dont-know! Yes, he definately HAD to have been thinking of Schmi and Padme - and even his regret of not knowing / treatment of Leia. But, how could he NOT remember that similiar scenario and pivitol moment with Mace? Yes, that was ALL going through his mind! And I loved how it was point in one of the responses - that first, that scenario turned Anakin into Vader and then later it turned Vader back into Anakin! Right on!

 

No, you're exactly right, Lastjedi. Here's Anakin, watching his son fry and he thinks back on the moment he turned. He realizes: "This is it old man. Time to do something right for once. Time to redeem yourself. Time to turn back TO THE GOOD SIDE!"

And he's looked at his son too. Last time his emotions ran so wild was when he force choked Padme. Her life was REALLY in her hands. Now it was his son's life. And he had to do something.

 

Has anyone ever wondered why Yoda didn't tell Luke to keep his lightsaber because it can deflect a lightning attack? or did he think Luke was smart enought not to throw it away around the Emperor.

 

I agree totally with this. There's one difference in the situation that makes the difference in his decision.

Unlike before, Palpatine is now the aggressor, whereas before he was the one he was about to be destroyed by Mace. It's because of his attachment to luke, and this role reversal that for the first time he is finally able to see through Palpatine's lies.

 

Great thread and post here.

Looking at ROTJ now after seeing ROTS is definitely different. We see in ROTS Anakin making a split second decision about what he was going to do. Of course he chose Palps over Mace and the Jedi order. In ROTJ we see Vader actually panning back and forth between Luke and the Emperor. Again he is faced with a quick decision, and no doubt he, at least for a moment, thought back to the last situation like this one.

 

Of course, they are intended to mirror themselves.

When Anakin turns to the darkside, Sith lighting is blazing, there is an unarmed prisoner and Anakin chooses to help the "weak."
Vader finally turns back as Sith lighting dominates the air, and an uarmed prisoner is left on the ground to die. Once again, Anakin decides to aid the weaker of the two.

It is the cycle, intentionally built to mirror itself. Anakin turns evil and returns from darkness in the exact same manner. All part of the genius of Lucas.

-Seldon

 

After seeing ROTS I thought that Vader/Anakin was thinking about Padme.
Now hear me out on this one:

In ROTS during Anakin's dream he sees Padme in pain calling out to him. Anakin help me ( I don't know the exact quote)

Flash forward to ROTJ. Luke is in pain calling out to him. Father Please!!

The camera angles for these to shots are very similar. I may be imagining things but I saw a parallel. Anyway flame away

 

i agree with everybody.

 

Like reminding him of the liar Sidious always was, and then thinking *ît's the LAST time you lie to me!!!*

 

No, i think he thought of Padmé and his mother dying. His entire life he had been searching for ways to keep the people he loved alive forever. He realized this with his mother. (Remember the scene with Padmé in Lars'house?)
He also said he would do anything to protect Padmé, even betray his "alternative family", the jedi order. But still, he didnt manage to protect her. (from his point of view he didnt kill her IMHO) Now he realizes that for the first time, he has the chance to protect someone he loves. He couldnt save Luke's grandmother, he couldnt save Luke's mother, but now he has the chance to save Luke, his son. And he will do anything to do so, even betray his master.

Remember: watching the lightning strike Luke doesnt really affect Vader, it's Luke's cry: "Father, help me" that makes him to attack Palpy.

 

And so....at last Vader came to his senses and remembered his Jedi goals.

By at the end doing something we all would do.

 

It does for me. Palpatine shocks Mace & Luke with Anakin there by his side. The first time this happens, Anakin contributes to Palpatine and handicaps Mace ... enabling Palpatine to shock him. With Luke, the same thing happens, except this time Anakin turns against Palpatine and saves Luke.

Get this ... when Palpatine first shocks Mace, that's when Anakin turns. When Palpatine shocks Luke, that's when Anakin turns back. Cool huh?

 

Good stuff everyone. Don't forget about the parallels about the scenes also. In ROTS Anakin looks at Palpy then at Mace, then back to Palpy to Mace. Palpy tells Anakin, he must choose. Then in ROTJ Darth Vader does the same thing. He looks at Palpy then at Luke, then back to Palpy then at Luke. Finally Anakin makes the right choice to save Luke and redeems himself. Also Palpy in both scenes says to Mace and Luke "you will die." So you wonder if Anakin/Vader remembers that Palpy said "you will die" to Mace in ROTS.

 

Anakin submits himself to the Sith Order after chopping off Windu's hand and allowing him to fall to his death.That was his last decision known as Anakin Skywalker,because right after he pledges himself,he is renamed Darth Vader.

He tells Luke he has no chance for redemption,and that he is so far down the dark path that there is no hope for him.Anakin Skywalker,is no more.

So I suppose when he saw the situation re-play itself with Luke, He made a different decision, reclaiming himself as Anakin Skywalker.

 

Exactly!

 

I think Yoda knew that it would come down to the Emperor unleashing his wrath on Luke. And maybe Yoda sensed that Anakin would be more likely to save Luke if he saw Luke as totally helpless, so Yoda intentionally left out the part about needing to have the lightsaber ready to deflect the lightning.

 

Vader was NOT thinking of Padme or his mother at this point.

Anyone with half a brain can make the connection between Palpatine in ROTS saying "Anakin, please" and Luke in ROTJ saying "Father, please".

It's at this precise point that Vader/Anakin realises that Mace was the one he should have helped, and that he won't let Palpatine trick him again.

By this stage, Padme and Shmi have become irrelevant to Vader's motivation as a Sith - he merely desires power for power's sake by the time of the OT.

That is all.