CT Did Vader Know Leia Was His Daughter After Probing Luke's Mind?

In ROTJ, during the duel on the Death Star II, did Vader know Leia was his daughter after probing Luke's mind? Or was it more that he knew he had a daughter but didn't know who it was? I was always under the assumption that in Luke's mind, he was thinking of Leia and was viewing her as his sister. But I don't know if that would be how the Force worked though.

 

"Tell your sister you were right about me" seems to sum that up

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"Your thoughts dwell on your... sister! You have a twin sister! Obi-Wan's failure is now complete. If you will not be turned to the Dark Side, then perhaps she will?"

He knew. He probably also connected the dots that Leia was the sister, and also his daughter.

 

He obviously sensed that he had a daughter, but there's nothing there to indicate that he knew who it was.

 

Not until the end at least when he appears as a Force ghost.

 

I'd say no. If he had known it was Leia, I think that would have provoked more of a reaction from him, realizing he'd had his own daughter in his grasp twice and had let her get away. And when he said tell your sister, I think there would have been some pain in his eyes, knowing he'd tortured her twice.

 

Interesting question... I always assumed - yes, he knew. Vader was reading Lukes mind...I wonder if he was seeing what Luke was thinking? If he was he would have seen Leias face no doubt. Hmmm

 

The script leaves it interestingly ambiguous. Which is fun.

One could argue that Vader doesn't know who Luke's sister is because he never mentions Leia's name. And in-universe he also failed to sense his kinship with Leia when he interrogated her back in the first film. Are Vader's mind-probing skills really as good as we've been led to believe? Or does he just have a blind spot when it comes to Force visions of women, like a Rule 63 Bene Gesserit?

 

In my head-canon, Vader figured out that the "sister" was Leia when he was utilizing the Don Moch in ROTJ. The reason Jones reads the line in a subtly sadistic tone, IMO, was due to his belief that Vader was certain that Luke would reveal himself. But I imagine that he later realized the implications of torturing his own daughter twice and doing nothing when Tarkin destroyed her homeworld. While his primary impetus was to redeem himself by saving Luke, who was a part of Padme, he likely realized the same was true regarding Leia herself.

 

I don't think it's that complicated. The one thing that runs like a red thread through ESB and ROTJ is that Luke is never referred to by his first name but only as "Young Skywalker".

This emphasizes that from both Vader's and the Emperor's point of view he's truly just an object or asset by not calling Luke with his first name.

IMHO, this becomes obvious during this ROTJ scene:

VADER A small Rebel force has penetrated the shield and landed on Endor.

EMPEROR (no surprise)
Yes, I know.

VADER (after a beat)
My son is with them.

EMPEROR (very cool)
Are you sure?

VADER I have felt him, my Master.

EMPEROR Strange, that I have not. I wonder if your feelings on this matter are
clear, Lord
Vader.

Vader knows what is being asked.

Note: Vader breaks an unwritten rule and doesn't refer to Luke as "young Skywalker" but "my son" which - expectedly - makes the Emperor wonder.

Therefore, though he probably knows that Luke's sister is "Leia" he expectedly refers to her just as "sister" ("the sister of young Skywalker") during their confrontation (which probably also puts the Emperor at ease who later fails to watch his "back").

One could argue that after the "return of the Jedi" he should have said "Tell Leia you were right about me" from a fan's point of view, but for the general audience it would have been somewhat confusing, so Anakin sticks with "sister" although "Leia" would have been appropriate.

 

Something I just realized: "Dun Möch" is named for the word "dun", as in dark, and the past subjunctive of the German verb "mögen", which in the present subjunctive is used as the auxiliary verb in phrases like "May the Force be with you."

So "Dun Möch" basically translates as "May the Dark Force be with you." Fun.

 

Not true:

VADER
Luke. You can destroy the Emperor.
He has foreseen this. It is your
destiny. Join me, and together
we can rule the galaxy as father
and son. Come with me. It is the
only way.

That said, I agree with you that Vader sees Luke as an asset...Vader's using the familial connection as a means to get Luke to join him against Palps.

 

You showed me the power of the darkness.

Personally, on serious note, I believe Vader would have had more trouble turning Leia in any scenario. This includes if she were being trained instead of Luke in some alternative retelling. She had more emotional regulation than Luke in the first film. Luke took three films to get there.

 

This is when I think he learned who she was too. The movie did not indicate Luke gave away her name at all.

 

I wonder why we don't see that mind-reading power used anywhere else in the saga. Super cool and creepy scene.

 

Kylo probes minds. Kind of odd that Vader uses machines on Leia and Han.

 

I don't find it odd that Vader used machines on Leia and Han, he wasn't after information. "They didn't even ask me any questions." Vader only wanted them to suffer so that Luke would be drawn to rescue them. Making them suffer is a trivial task that he doesn't need to waste time and energy on.

 

"Her resistance to the mind probe is considerable." I suppose he could be talking about both using the Force and/or the droid.

 

As the confrontation between Luke and Vader was going on there must have been a massive shift occurring in the Force. This would have clouded Vaders perception and not allowed him to make the connection between Luke and Leia.

 

Exactly. As "Darth Vader", for all intents and purposes Anakin is "dead", so Luke would not be "his" son, but the son of Anakin Skywalker, the good man who is supposed to be gone forever.Throughput the whole of TESB, Vader still thinks of Luke as the son of Anakin, and only reveals the truth when all other options are exhausted in trying to turn him. and even then, it's only to attempt to use Luke's need for familial bonding as an advantage, while simultaneously sowing seeds of mistrust between Luke and Kenobi ( he DID lie to him after all, from a certain point of view - "Ben, why didn't you tell me ..." ). It seems that NO one expected this move from Vader, perhaps Vader never planned it himself.If he had planned to reveal himself, he should've done it at the beginning of the duel,giving himself a huge tactical advantage against a likely enraged, hurt,confused, and off balanced Luke.But once he does reveal that he is Luke's father, it's almost like he is finally willing to admit to himself he was once Anakin Skywalker. When Luke says as much on Endor, he is quick to try and squash the idea. Indeed, from that point forward after the Bespin duel, he refers to Luke in every meeting as "Luke", "Son", "My Son" , no longer just "Skywalker" or "Young Skywalker". The admittance of who he once was combined with Luke's willingness to die rather than turn awakens anakin again from within Vader. slow at first, but by Jedi he is present, even if Vader is trying to keep him suppressed. Indeed, enough of anakin has resurfaced that he begins to forget himself and refer to Luke by name or as son in front of the Emperor, drawing concern from Sheev like you said.

But back on topic, if Vader knew, I think he would've said her name to Luke in his dying moments instead of just the generic "sister".

 

Yes, but Vader also wanted to see what Luke was capable of. He was hoping to take Luke under his wing to help him defeat Palpatine, after all. As impressed as Vader was, I don't think he was expecting Luke to pose a serious threat to him. Once Luke is disarmed, Vader uses his familial knowledge to endear Luke towards him.

Make no mistake.....Vader knows exactly who he was....a lot of his hatred and frustration is sewn deep into what he has lost - his wife, his children, his body.....the suit is a constant reminder of his failures.