JCC Discussion Time: Let's Talk About Drafts - next draft?

So, okay, let's finish this. Or at least start to. I propose 2 options, in no particular order.

A. Leave everyone in, but of course get out the guys who are just too powerful.
B. Take the powerlist off, and this comes with-
B1. A hard line stance, which I personally am in favor of. Take out all telepaths, all luck people, all people who are just weird (Blink, etc.).
B2. Go all individual one by one, which I am not in favor of.

Alright, let's do it.

 

If those are the options I'm thinking A.

 

Ditto with A.

 

As much as I think B1 would be fun, I don't think it would move the draft forward any. So we should probably just go with A.

 

Hm... Well no matter which one, can we still take out the luck and weird people? I don't know why anyone would want to judge or pick that.

 

Stepping away from the list for a minute, let's talk about prep time.

In the past, prep-time, and these matches, have been pretty vague. Okay, sure, we all know they get who they're facing and a breakdown, etc. Whatever. But, to me, that's incredibly boring. Why don't we mix it up a little bit by turning this thing into a storyline of sorts?

Think of Secret Wars or JLA/Avengers, or even, to a lesser extent, Warworld. Imagine, if you will, a supremely intelligent, highly powerful, extra-dimensional life form, and this race of lifeforms, heretofore known as the GMs, likes to play games with lesser beings(those living in the comic universes).

They've come and abducted heroes to play for them, and the heroes are made aware of this. They're also made aware that if they don't play along, something very bad will happen to their earth/universe/loved ones, with a demonstration, or whatever it takes to get the heroes in the mood to fight(conversely the villains would be promised power/riches/etc).

Now that we have our premise, we can begin to make prep and locations a bit more flexible.

Locations, for instance, would no longer be contained to the earth, and could be held in an artificial environment, which would mean we could simulate outer-space, underwater, etc. without worry about silly things like people suffocating. In addition, these artificial locations would completely eliminate arguments for something like Superman taking a sun dip beforehand, or throwing someone into space(as they would simply be returned to the designated area, sort of like when you look into a mirror that is looking towards another mirror). Now we're talking about having fights wherever and whenever. The simulation would be completely real, otherwise, so things like building and stuff would still hurt if you got sent through one, there just wouldn't be a need to worry about whether or not someone could survive on an inhospitable terrain. Certainly, this opens up much more diverse and exotic locations than just a basic city square.

As for prep, we now have a reason and the ability to give them the information that they need. However, I'd like to define that information in greater detail, and, as we are supremely powerful extra-dimensional beings with knowledge beyond human understanding(read: Wikipedia), I think we can be as liberal with this as we choose.

What I have in mind is a "prep-package" that each prepared character would receive, in addition to being put into an exact replica of their home base.

These packages would include a few things, in addition to the character's own inventory:

A small, book like supercomputer, capable of answering most questions put to it by the inquirer. This computer will hold all relevant information about an opponent, including a psychological profile, information about their species/homeworld, their affiliations, their powers and how they operate(for instance, an explanation on the Kryptonian physiology, such as how the cells absorb yellow sunlight), and their arsenal, if they should have one, however, unless the correct questions are asked, this information is not given. In other words, the user must find the information they are looking for(besides a brief opening monologue about who they are facing, which is sort of like a history of that character, kind of like watching a documentary, and then the computer would automatically open to the character's psychological profile), the computer is not simply going to tell them everything in a stream of information.

A sample of their opponent's DNA. If the opponent is a mutant/alien, this would allow someone with enough knowledge in the area of genetics to analyze, and possibly work out how to neutralize an opponent's ability.

Access to any significant prop used by an opponent, such as a Green Lantern's power ring. They would not be able to use the sample, but would be allowed to analyze it, to determine things like power source, type of energy, etc. Because some people rely on items rather than their own inherent abilities, this keeps it from being unfair t

 

And I had too much time on my hands. So I made this list. I removed people who are probably too powerful, people who require special circumstances to beat, and some people who no one honestly cares about. Honestly.

Main goal is to get it to the point where Wolverine and his ilk, at least a few, can actually be drafted as viable late-round picks.

Draftable List

Abomination
Absorbing Man R
Agent X
Alexander Luthor, Jr. R
Allen the Alien
Angela R
Angstrom Levy R
Annihilus (Annihilation version)
Ant-Man (Choose incarnation)
Ant-Man (Scott Lang) R
Apocalypse
Apollo
Aquaman
Arachne
Archangel
Arkillo
Atom Eve R
Atom Smasher
Atomic Skull R
Aurora R
Avalanche
Azrael
Badrock R
Bane
Banshee
Baron Helmut Zemo
Baron Mordo R
Baron Strucker
Batgirl
Batman
Battle Beast R
Beast
Beta Ray Bill
Bishop
Bizzaro
Black Adam
Black Knight R
Black Manta
Black Mask
Black Panther
Black Samson
Black Tom Cassidy
Blade
Blastaar
Blink R
Blob
Blockbuster
Blue Beetle (Choose Incarnation)
Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) R
Blue Devil
Boom Boom
Booster Gold
Bullseye
Cable
Callisto
Cannonball
Captain America
Captain Atom
Captain Boomerang
Captain Britain
Captain Cold
Captain Marvel
Carnage
Cassandra Nova Xavier
Chamber R
Champion of the Universe
Clayface (specify which)
Cloak
Colossus
Constrictor R
Cosmic Boy
Cyber
Cyborg
Cyclops
Cy-gor R
Dagger
Daredevil
Dark Ages Spawn (Lord Covenant) R
Darkhawk R
Darkseid R
Deadpool
Deathbird
Deathstroke
Demogoblin
Despero R
Doc Samson
Domino R
Doomsday
Doppelganger R
Dr. Bong R
Dr. Doom
Dr. Fate
Dr. Octopus
Dr. Polaris
Drax the Destroyer
Dupli-Kate
Electro
Elektra
Elsa Bloodstone
Emma Frost
Enchantress
Etrigan, the Demon
Exodus
Firelord
Firestar
Firestorm
Forge
Gambit
General Zod
Geo-Force
Ghost Rider
Giganta
Gladiator
Gorgon (choose incarnation)
Gorilla Grodd
Green Arrow
Green Goblin
Green Lantern (Guy Gardner) R
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Green Lantern (John Stewart)
Green Lantern (Kilowog)
Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)
Grunge
Guardian
Hank Pym
Harley Quinn
Havok
Hawkeye
Hawkgirl
Hawkman
Hellboy
Hercules
Hobgoblin
Holocaust
Hourman, The Android R
Hulkling
Human Torch
Husk R
Hydro-Man R
Hyperion
Iceman R
Indigo
Invincible
Invisible Woman
Ion (Sodam Yat) R
Iron Fist
Iron Man
Jade R
Jean Grey
Jubilee
Juggernaut R
Kalibak
Kang the Conqueror
Karate Kid R
KGBeast R
Kid Flash
Killer Croc
Killer Frost
King Hyperion R
Kingpin
Klaw
Kraven the Hunter
Lady Deathstrike
Lady Shiva
Lex Luthor
Lightray R
Live Wire
Lizard
Lobo
Loki
Longshot R
Luke Cage
Lyssa Drak R
M (Monet)
Machine Man
Madelyne Pryor
Maestro R
Magik
Magma
Magneto R
Mandarin
Marrow
Martian Manhunter
Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr)
Mary Marvel
Metallo
Metamorpho R
Mimic (Exiles)
Miss Martian
MODOK R
Molly Hayes R
Mondo R
Mongul
Monica Rambeau
Monster Girl
Moon Knight
Moondragon
Morbius
Morlun
Mr. Fantastic
Mr. Freeze
Mr. Majestic
Mr. Sinister
Mr. Terrific
Multi-Paul
Multiple Man
Mysterio
Mystique
Namor
Namorita
Nico Minoru R
Nightcrawler
Nightwing
Nimrod
Northstar
Nova (Annihilation version)
Obsidian R
Omega Red
Omni-Man
Onslaught (First Form Only) R
Orion
Osiris R
Overt-kill R
Parasite
Penance R
Phoenix (Rachel Summers) R
Pitt
Plastic Man R
Poison Ivy
Post
Power Girl
Professor X
Psylocke
Puck
Pyro
Quicksilver
Radioactive Man
Ra's Al Ghul
Raven
Red Hood (Jason Todd)
Red Skull
Red Tornado
Rex Splode R
Rhino
Robin (Tim Drake)
Robot R
Rogue
Sabretooth
Sandman R
Sasquatch
Scarecrow
Scorpion
Sebastian Shaw
Sentinel (Alan Scott) R
Sentinel (Mutant-hunting robot)
Shadowcat
She-Hulk
Shocker
Shrinking Ray R
Silver Surfer R
Sinestro
Siryn
Solomon Grundy
Spawn (Hellspawn) R
Spider-Man
Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew)
Star Sapphire
Starfire
Stargirl
Steel
Storm
Strong Guy
Stryfe
Sunfire
Sunspot
Super Boy
Super Skrul

 

Wow, once again there are some seriously random cuts in there. What's wrong with the Runaways? What's wrong with Invincible's supporting cast? What's wrong with a few new members of Nextwave? And I know, for certain, that there are people who care about Black Knight. Just...wow, some of those cuts are just completely random.

 

I think it's only Nico...possibly becaues she could in theory just say 'blow Batman into dust' and it would happen, I guess. And Molly, who threw Godzilla over, so is possibly too strong if you're trying to remove heavy hitters. And Battle Beast, whose one appearance consists of him owning everybody.

Edit: Though Yak did leave the Hulk on there...

 

The List, according to St. EmpireForever - 1st draft.


Abomination
Absorbing Man
Agent X
Alexander Luthor, Jr.
Allen the Alien
Angela
Angstrom Levy
Annihilus (Annihilation version)
Ant-Man (Eric O?Grady)
Ant-Man (Scott Lang)
Apocalypse
Apollo
Aquaman
Arachne
Archangel
Arkillo
Atom Eve
Atom Smasher
Atomic Skull
Aurora
Avalanche
Azrael
Badrock
Bane
Banshee
Baron Helmut Zemo
Baron Mordo
Baron Strucker
Batgirl
Batman
Battle Beast
Beast
Beta Ray Bill
Bishop
Bizzaro
Black Adam
Black Knight
Black Manta
Black Mask
Black Panther
Black Samson
Black Tom Cassidy
Blade
Blastaar
Blink
Blob
Blockbuster
Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett)
Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes)
Blue Beetle (Ted Kord)
Blue Devil
Boom Boom
Booster Gold
Bullseye
Cable
Callisto
Cannonball
Captain America
Captain Atom
Captain Boomerang
Captain Britain
Captain Cold
Captain Comet
Captain Marvel
Carnage
Cassandra Nova Xavier
Chamber
Champion of the Universe
Clayface (specify which)
Cloak
Colossus
Constrictor
Cosmic Boy
Cyber
Cyborg
Cyclops
Cy-gor
Dagger
Daredevil
Dark Ages Spawn (Lord Covenant)
Darkhawk
Darkseid
Deadpool
Deathbird
Deathstroke
Demogoblin
Despero
Doc Samson
Domino
Doomsday
Doppelganger
Dr. Bong
Dr. Doom
Dr. Fate
Dr. Octopus
Dr. Polaris
Drax the Destroyer
Dupli-Kate
Electro
Elektra
Elsa Bloodstone
Emma Frost
Enchantress
Etrigan, the Demon
Exodus
Firelord
Firestar
Firestorm
Forge
Gambit
General Zod
Geo-Force
Ghost Rider
Giganta
Gladiator
Gorgon
Gorilla Grodd
Gravity
Green Arrow
Green Goblin
Green Lantern (Guy Gardner)
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Green Lantern (John Stewart)
Green Lantern (Kilowog)
Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner)
Grunge
Guardian
Hank Pym
Harley Quinn
Havok
Hawkeye
Hawkgirl
Hawkman
Hellboy
Hercules
Hobgoblin
Holocaust
Hourman, The Android
Hulkling
Human Torch
Husk
Hydro-Man
Hyperion
Iceman
Indigo
Invincible
Invisible Woman
Ion (Sodam Yat)
Iron Fist
Iron Man
Jade
Jean Grey
Jubilee
Juggernaut
Kalibak
Kang the Conqueror
Karate Kid
KGBeast
Kid Flash
Killer Croc
Killer Frost
King Hyperion
Kingpin
Klaw
Kraven the Hunter
Lady Deathstrike
Lady Shiva
Lex Luthor
Lightray
Live Wire
Lizard
Lobo
Loki
Longshot
Luke Cage
Lyssa Drak
M (Monet)
Machine Man
Madelyne Pryor
Maestro
Magik
Magma
Magneto
Mandarin
Marrow
Martian Manhunter
Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr)
Mary Marvel
Metallo
Metamorpho
Mimic (Exiles)
Miss Martian
MODOK
Molly Hayes
Mondo
Mongul
Monica Rambeau
Monster Girl
Moon Knight
Moondragon
Morbius
Morlun
Mr. Fantastic
Mr. Freeze
Mr. Majestic
Mr. Sinister
Mr. Terrific
Multi-Paul
Multiple Man
Mysterio
Mystique
Namor
Namorita
Nico Minoru
Nightcrawler
Nightwing
Nimrod
Northstar
Nova
Obsidian
Omega Red
Omni-Man
Onslaught (First Form Only)
Orion
Osiris
Overt-kill
Parasite
Penance
Phoenix (Rachel Summers)
Pitt
Plastic Man
Poison Ivy
Post
Power Girl
Professor X
Psylocke (current)
Puck
Pyro
Quicksilver
Radioactive Man
Ra's Al Ghul
Raven
Red Hood (Jason Todd)
Red Skull
Red Tornado
Rex Splode
Rhino
Robin (Tim Drake)
Robot
Rogue
Sabretooth
Sandman
Sasquatch
Scarecrow
Scorpion
Sebastian Shaw
Sentinel (Alan Scott)
Sentinel (Mutant-hunting robot)
Shadowcat
She-Hulk
Shocker
Shrinking Ray
Silver Surfer
Sinestro
Siryn
Solomon Grundy
Spawn (Hellspawn)
Spider-Man
Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew)
Star Sapphire
Starfire
Stargirl
Steel
Storm
Strong Guy
Stryfe
Sunfire
Sunspot
Super Boy
Super Skrull
Supergirl
Superman
Taskmaster
Terrax
The Captain
The Darkness
The Flash (No Wally West)
The Hulk (No World Scar)
The Immortal
The Joker
The Midnighter
The Punisher
Th

 

St. EmpireForever

More people than Hal Jordan are the Green Lantern? Three years of modding SFFBC and you'd think I would have learned that. . . . Why did you chose one Green Lantern and not them all?

 

Most of the GLs have distinctive personalities, fighting styles, whatnot.

Gardner is just a distinct scrub. And 3 is well enough, no offense to Kilowog

 

No offense to Guy, either. I don't mind having him on the board, but at a point it becomes a bit redundant(especially as, with Sentinel up there, it's actually more like four rings, even without Kilowog).

We should maybe add another villain ring, just so there's more than Sinestro, but enough good rings are already on there.

 

Well you took out the other villain ring, sir... Star Sapphire?

And what's up w/takin out Kalibak? What'd he ever do to you?

I guess I'll bring up my new idea 2morrow... Unless I'm beat to it.

 

Except her ring is funky. We can bring her back in, I just need to see about a few things.


Kalibak is a New God, and I was just trying to cut down on characters absolutely no one cared about(which is, to me, any New God besides Orion or Darkseid, but Darkseid is gone), or who were really just being picked for their powerset.

That's sort of why I took Mary Marvel off, not that she's not becoming an interesting character, but there are enough supers already.

 

I say we bring in Atrocitus as the other Villain ring.

 

Star Sapphire has more measurable feats than Atrocitus... And Arkillo, for that matter. I'm guessing they're making Atrocitus at or perhaps higher than Sinestro level, and we need some high-tier villains so we can have, you know, more than 3 villain teams in a 16-person draft. Let's just dump Arkillo and run with Sinestro, Sapphire and Atrocitus.

Oh, and her ring isn't funky anymore. They changed it so now it's just another color ring like red and whatever.

Oh yeah, and the reason I made a big deal of Kalibak is because, kind of with the rest of this post, I would like to see more than 2 villain teams in a draft. That's why on mine I was very hesitant to get rid of even obscure high-tier villains.

 

Okay so, I've noticed we've been bouncing around here on who to include or not to include. Maybe we don't share the same vision?

For instance, I want (and I think D1 wants) more depth selected, more of the weaker characters. I also want (which ties into that) staple characters such as Spidey and Wolvie to be able to be on a winning team, which just really can't happen right now. BaSSiL seems to want a variety of guys from everywhere represented. EF wants to write a book about it.

So, the first thing, is... What does everybody want?

And don't even start with the jokes.

 

Maybe the draft could be split in two. A world, galactic level draft which holds the top end characters. Then also a street level draft, which consists of the low end (yet still very interesting and fun) characters we never get to see in the draft.

Just a thought.

 

I had a similar idea, where we split it into Major/Minor. You would draft for your major team, but then also have a farm team in addition. You could play anyone in either league, but if you waste your high ups in the minors, you're probably not winning in the majors. That's just a thought, I don't think that's really plausible, and splitting it in two would be a bit better, probably.

However, Yak, I happen to disagree with you. A 16 GM draft most definitely can have a winning team with Spidey or Wolverine. Those guys are very draftable in a 16 GM league.

You can't say you want staple guys to be drafted, and turn around and say you want Superman off the list. People want to draft Superman just as much as they want to draft Wolverine.

So what do I want? I want everyone to be included on the list as possible. How about we make a few classic duos out of the lower end? Two picks for one. Cloak and Dagger. Blue and Gold. Spider-Man and Human Torch. Just a couple of suggestions.

And I really, really don't think there are a lack of good villains. The only two villain teams were in the championship match, because they were absolutely the two best teams in the game. The best hero team was in 3rd place by a good distance(sure, I beat you that one time, but I think that was more due to lucky numbers). There's no lack of villains, and I don't know why that always comes up. People just don't want villain teams, and when we add more villains, what happens is the two or three villain teams only get better, because people do go hero more often, and it's not a symptom of the list. I guess maybe that's just me. Historically, there just aren't a ton of villain teams, and when we start putting a whole bunch of high end villains in, the 2-4 villain teams suddenly become monsters just because no one wants to go villain, for the most part. 13 GMs decide to go hero, and we've got a busted draft. And it is more likely to happen.

 

Well, I happen to agree with... Well, both of you I guess. I've come up with an idea to try an address this.

First I like the team pick idea (that's not mine). We could take guys like Cloak and Dagger and the like and put them together. And then put X-Men teams (2 people only) like Cyclops/Emma, Wolverine/NIghtcrawler, whatever. Sinister 6 teams. Teams of people who won't be uber-powerful but might be worth a pick when put in twos. That's one way to get the lower guys picked.

Now THIS is my idea. Trump Picks. Basically, you pick any two people you want in the same turn, and they are trumped together the WHOLE DRAFT. You cannot separate them.

Of course, what we don't want to see is the first pick being Thor/Beta Ray. That's just unfair. So, you would have to skip the turn before you Trump Pick. And how does this get down to more people? Isn't it just picking the same amount of people in different ways?

Well, no. You would make up for your trump pick skips by picking 2 extra people. One in round 10 and one in free agency. What I'm thinking is that you'd have to make 2 double picks before round 10, and then you would make your third double in round 10. Then in free agency you'd add your last guy as well as make any free agent moves. That way in 10 picks, you have 12 guys on your roster, which means 32 extra people have been picked in the same time as normal. Plus with team picks, we should get pretty far down in this list and get a guy like a Wolverine picked with a chance to win.

I know this requires just a little more attention because you need 2 double-picks done before round 10, which means you need two skips before then as well, but it's not much and I think it'd not only get down to some lower characters but also make for some cool trumps.

A better idea is instead of naming your trump picks as you double-pick, you could probably just look at your team after you're done with free agency and name your 2 trumps. These trumps could be assumed to train a sufficient time to get a good rapport with each other, for starters.

 

If we were to do trump picks, then I would suggest reinstating the power list and rule that anyone on the power list is ineligible for being grouped into a trump pick.

Those who are not on the power list can be selected by themselves, or as 1/2 of a trump pick.

If we do this that brings up the question of wether or not there be a limit to how many trump picks each team can take. Would it be unlimited or would we cap it at 2-3 trump picks per team?

Just thinking out loud here. I kind of like the idea though.

EDIT: I am still liking the idea of having a completely seperate Street Level Draft though, it seems like it would be fun to try. We could see some very different teams, and some fresh arguments for people not yet seen picked in any of the comic drafts.

 

Well, I'll just listen to yall on draft splitting. As far as the trump picks go, the thing is if u have to skip the pick before, it's already preventative of any sort of superpower trumping skewing the draft. As in, you can't trump on your first pick because you have to skip, so the earliest you could is on your second. And then you've got 2 second-round guys instead of a 1st and 2nd round guy, so it's really the same or a loss, powerwise, to do that.

 

There's no reason to split it. Just make a separate draft with the lower end, while keeping them in here.

 

Is there a drug test involved?