Saga Do the Sequels increase or decrease the value of the saga to you?

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Perhaps we are/I am doing this whole posting/discussing/debating nerdy SW opinions incorrectly? Like everyone else here, I come here for entertainment and to have fun. I'm not trying to step out of line, break the rules, hurt feelings, or otherwise being egregious with discussion/posts.

If you look back at the first few pages of the thread, you'll see that by page two it's the original poster who started arguing with opinions on the initial question and telling folks why they were/are wrong.

 

I have withdrawn from the conversation since my last message here, because there is no point and I wanted to just de-escalate the situation.

My apologies if I upset anyone, it was never my goal. And to clarify, because I think one or two things I said might have been misunderstood, I never called you a liar @KyleKartan , and if I mentioned "lies" in any of my posts, it was about stuff that comes out from not-so-trustworthy sources, not about anything you said. I actually never thought of you as a liar or anything of the sort, and I hold you in respect as a user. And I never had you, or any other specific user in my mind when trying to argue about how some narratives that are being pushed (especially on social media) are based on wishful thinking or delusions.

We can just agree to disagree on the topic and move on with our lives.

 

As I said, my intention is the same as others.. .to discuss/geek out about Star Wars and to have fun. Sorry if I am not doing it to your liking.

 

The Sequels are canon to Disney Canon it happen just like Jacen Solo becomes Darth Caedus in Legends some people dont like Legacy of the Force but its canon to that timeline same with the Sequels

 

I'd say no. I was super psyched for them. I even enjoyed TFA (even though they totally wrecked Han and Leia and broke my heart), but then the next two movies were a hot mess, so now I can't even enjoy TFA anymore. Wasn't worth the angst with no pay off, so now I just pretend they don't exist (Or that they're Disney fanfiction).

 

The answer is yes for me, but not nearly as much as I hoped. They completely sidelined Finn (and Poe) and kept Palpatine. My favorite moment is the Jedi speaking to Rey through the force. I am really glad Kylo is dead, becasue my second least favorite part is the romance between Kylo and Rey. Least favorite was Finn and his story being completely ignored outside of TFA. TFA is my least favorite overall due to being too derivative for me, but TROS is the one with the lowest lows (and the Highest highs) for me

 

Neither. They are not part of the saga because if you include them, it sinks the logic of the entire saga to the bottom of Kamino.

 

I didn't choose either option. I neither love or hate the ST and view the trilogy fairly apathetically. The ending of the last film in this trilogy being practically the same as ROTJ and the background conflict being just a Rebels vs Empire copy and paste job from the OT only increased my apathy for these films sadly. Also as someone who enjoys the various books, comics and games released during most major Star Wars film releases I've found the lack of ST expanded content to be disappointing. Especially compared to the PT era, where we had a wealth of content across all media during the period of 1999 to 2005 and beyond. Again I don't hate these films, but I don't really consider them equal to the 6 original saga films that came before them.

 

Honestly from viewing standpoint, I find the Sequel Trilogy more watchable than the Prequels or OT. There is just something about them, the characters, tone, style, and etc that appeals to me; its fun adventure, which I only have felt again in BOBF.

 

I was listening to the Talking Bay 94 podcast and the host was interviewing Lucy Autrey Wilson, who for a while (not sure of the years) was director of publishing at Lucasfilm (also the first permanent employee of Lucasfilm, she started as a bookkeeper). She talked a bit about being in charge of the expanded universe of novels, comics, etc and working with Lucas. This is a direct quote that I found interesting: “Tom Veitch, the story he wrote, we were kinda just letting people do what they wanted then. He wrote his story, I didn’t ask George anything. We published it. Later George would run into me and he said ‘You know, Lucy, I would never clone the Emperor. He doesn’t get cloned.’ I’m like, ‘How was I supposed to know that, if you don’t want to be involved in what we’re doing?’” This led to them sending Lucas memos for him to approve or disapprove certain things in the EU.

Apparently he changed his mind later and seemed to like Dark Empire, though I don’t think that’s too surprising, as I believe there were things in clone wars he wasn’t sure about but then came to appreciate later.

Later in the podcast, she said she wanted to kill Luke in the NJO books but Lucas wouldn’t allow it.

 

Decrease- I thought TFA was an engaging beginning, even with the problems it cast for the trilogy, but I don't like the trilogy as a continuation of the saga. I feel like even in a vacuum, the trilogy goes in three different directions, and I wish that the legacy characters had different fates at the top of the list of my issues.

 

Oddly, this seems to be in direct contradiction of Veitch:
"We felt the Empire would want to maintain the fearsome image of Vader. He said, no, you can't bring back the Vader costume... but if you can figure out how to bring back the Emperor, that's okay. The obvious way to bring back the Emperor was with cloning, which George immediately approved."

We know this mostly due to his supposedly giving it to employees as a Christmas present at one point.

But there's also the balance of the Force concept first being mentioned in the Dark Empire Sourcebook...

 

Really? Interesting.

 

The ST sucks.

 

I love the Force Awakens. It has so much that I love about SW now. People call it a ANH clone, interesting because ANH is an amalgamation of the OT; Lucas never intended to have the Death Star in it, that was always meant for ROTJ. He pasted and moved stuff from the later scripts because it was looking like he’d only get one shot, one film from the studio.

 

This actually isn’t true. An early draft of Star Wars had multiple Death Stars, but it was still just one draft of a script for one movie. Lucas’s claim that he had scripts written for three films that he had to condense down to one is easily debunked if you read the different scripts he wrote in the 70s, and also read interviews he did in the 70s.

A more accurate description is that he wrote a draft that had too much in it, so he had to revise it over time. After completing the first film, he began developing ideas for sequels and prequels, and re-purposed ideas from the various drafts in later films. For some reason, Lucas now insists that he always knew Anakin was Vader, and that Luke and Leia were siblings, and he had all 6 episodes planned out from the beginning, but I don’t buy it.

 

Well my source is the SW Making Of that aired on History Channel and I believe its on Disney+.

 

If I consider these three as part of the wider Star Wars, then yes, then it's absolutely a decrease. But, on the other hand they feel so marginal and disconnected from literally everything else (not just the original saga, but all the tv shows and games too), that it's trivial to ignore them and just... not care about all the really bad choices. As an ending to the series they're damn near destructive to the narrative, but they also feel so extraneous that I can compartmentalise them away.

 

Duplicate

 

It doesn’t mean it’s accurate. Lucas can lie all he wants, the evidence contradicts his claims.

My sources are the different drafts of the script for Star Wars. None of themfeature Yoda, Lando, Dagobah, Cloud City, Han being frozen in carbonite, Vader being revealed as Luke’s father, a return to Tatooine, Jabba’s palace, or a final confrontation between Luke and the emperor. The emperor is barely even mentioned in these early scripts. All of those concepts and characters were created later when they wrote the later films. Lucas had some vague ideas about the backstory. trade federations and corporate guilds are mentioned in the second draft, I think, when a character is explaining toanother character the origins of the empire, but that’s about it. I think hehad some notes about midichlorians, and some notes should Anakin being a talented mechanic, but nothing resembling a full script or even an outline for the prequels. Luke also speaks to Anakin’s force ghost in the first draft of ESB by Leigh Brackett. If Lucas always knew Anakin was Vader, you’d think he would have told the person writing the script. Also seems odd that Lucas would be okay with Luke and Leia kissing in ESB if he always knew they were siblings (there’s even more kissing between them in deleted scenes).

 

Well this is not a hill I want to die on.

 

According to Rinzler he didn't actually have notes about midichlorians back in the day, but he did legit have a note referring to a race of aliens who were genetically stronger in the Force than humans.