Full Series Dooku Captured: An Insult to the Sith and to Viewers

Yea I agree, that was stupid, he got pickpocketed like some young green padawan . Guarding your lightsaber with your life is pretty orthodox training and indoctrination for a Jedi , and for a former grandmaster Jedi and now Sith Lord, makes Dooku out to be a blunderer . I wouldnt think he needs to use a hand motions to use the force, it would be quite mental. Someone like Dooku wouldve killed all the pirates soon as he saw them with saber thrusts and force lightning. The micro-series had a part where Dooku said the Sith lack fear, which was vital above all.

Maybe Feloni tried also imitating history where Caesar was captured by pirates who wanted to ransom him, he grew fond of the pirates and they him, yet always said he would kill them and thus soon afterwards his release Caesar hunted them all down and crucified them.

http://www.livius.org/caa-can/caesar/caesar_t01.htm

But Dooku, failed in not personally killing Hondo.

Hando and merrymen are kept around cause they are some of Feloni's personal favorites, its also why they're needlessly inserted into the Maul/Opress story and Hando still survives who later goes onto try and kidnap or murder younglings with basically no reprisals from the Jedi Knights or Republic. The CIS also am sure wouldve had a bounty on his head, which further wouldve cemented in the fact Hando aided the Republic and enemy rebels during the battle for control of Onderon.

 

So, not to revive a dead thread but I was home sick the other day and bored out of my skull so I ended up rewatching a bunch of Clone Wars clips and came across the ones from Dooku Captured. And if you look closely, you actually see that the pirate ambush on Florrum where Dooku is first captured is actually a lot more effective than it appears on first glance.

There are 6 pirates on the upper balcony of Hondo's base, with their weapons pointed at Dooku.



Another 13 pirates in front of the base, spread out in a semi-circle with their weapons all trained on Dooku.




Two pirates flank Hondo's shuttle, with their guns fixed on the weaponless Count.



And another 7 pirates are visible along Dooku's right flank, all spread out with weapons ready.



Taken together, this amounts to a total of 28 armed attackers, spread in a wide array, surrounding Dooku almost completely and from a far enough range that a Force Repulse (like the one Savage Opress uses in Witches of the Mist) wouldn't hit them all. With this additional information, I can see why Dooku surrendered to Hondo rather than fight. Because at that point, he's got 28 different blasters pointed at him, with a wide distance between him and the nearest shooter and an open killing field for all the attackers. Even if Dooku does an amazing aerial flip and summons both lightsabers to hand, out of 28 shots, at least one or more will likely hit him. This would be a fight that even a Sith Lord would be hard-pressed to win, at least in the inital scenario of being completely surrounded. Part of the danger here is that Dooku isn't wearing any armour at all. Blaster shots can easily go through that fine ceremonial tunic that the Count is fond of. Whereas Savage Opress and Darth Vader wore full body armour, which in Savage's case would withstand innumerable blaster shots without anything more than a scorch mark.

 

Boils down to shear numbers and what Lucas wanted:



For me the silliness was that Dooku just nonchalantly walks into their superior position and puts himself into that spot( MAYBE that something you can write a more reckless young warriors might do in a story but and aged and experienced Jedi Master I don't know if I buy that) and he gets pickpocket/ relieved of his lightsaber(s) to boot . I think the worst is more that he allowed himself into their hands and then further into their hands. He could've destroyed them on the ship any number of ways as he's a Sith Lord . Someone like Hondo always getting an upper hand against Jedi and Sith Lords was irritating stupid, his presence & antics on Rebels is even more ludicrous and hammed up more.

 

I agree, Dooku getting into that position is ludicrous. But once he's there, it does make sense that they have the upper hand and he is actually outmatched. And that was my biggest gripe about that episode. I had a big battle in my mind where Dooku does a super-fast backflip, Force Pulls both lightsabers to hand and starts to demolish the pirates. But upon closer examination of the scenario, he'd be able to take down a number of them, but as Filoni says in that video, he would get shot and would eventually go down. Which is a bit pathetic to be honest. I wonder how well Sidious would do in a situation like that?

 

I think we should all agree that mind tricks won't work on Hondo.

Overconfidence. The same mistake that lead Maul and Sidious defeat in Episode I and Episode VI. If Maul didn't underestimate unarmed Kenobi and if Sidious could worry about Vader's loyalty things would've been completely different. Not sure why Dooku should've been different as a Sith Lord. Lucas always portrayed Sith Lords as too overconfident that they can let their guard off, that's what exactly happened there.

 

I agree. Still, when you see Force-wielders doing amazing things like this

https://giphy.com/gifs/VBIREEd7zZXa0

It's hard to believe that they can be taken down so easily. Still, I guess they are mortal, as Order 66 proved.

 

if anything he was under-confident enough not to just force choke and throw his way out of there,sith can be arrogant but they usually (especially a sith lord) know when to cut it out.

 

She didn't destroy them though. Dooku can knock down them but destroying is kind of different.

 

What spot? He was surrounded. You could say that he was arrogant and went towards them believing he could trick the pirates and get his way out of there. But that arrogance is part of his character.

 

Arrogance is one thing, stupid is another.

 

Only 28 ?
Dooku just surrender in a moment where you expect him to take out those scumbags. It just lame and indeed insult to a viewers. Sith Lords must act like that:

 

Take in to account Vader has his lightsaber and is "more machine than man". I'd say he's in a better position than Dooku, and Anakin was stronger in the Force as well.

 

Yep. That and the fact that Vader was able to take advantage of tanks, explosions and smoke. It's not like he just used the Force to kill them, it was all about strategy and tactics.

Also, Dooku is not a warrior and he doesn't exactly think like a warrior. He is a politician and an ideologist/philosopher and portrayed as such.

 

Hondo capturing Dooku added a lot to his coolness as a character, but I feel like the situation was poorly addressed afterwards, it wasn't very satisfying having it as a side story so many seasons afterwards. Dooku was humiliated by Hondo and for someone so full of himself, it's hard to believe he wouldn't have been itching like mad for revenge afterwards.

I was hoping we would get a duology/arc where Separatists invaded Florrum and we would have had the Republic having to defend the pirates. But yeah I agree Hondo should have been killed in TCW as a penalty for capturing Dooku.

I also think it would have been really interesting to have seen Dooku's awkward conversation with Sidious after the embarrassment of his capture

 

Now that would have been a priceless moment.

"Lord Tyranus, I see you have managed to escape your recent captivity."

"Er...yes my lord."

"Tell me, my apprentice, how was it that a Lord of the Sith such as yourself managed to get captured by a band of witless brigands?"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think at one point, he was gonna use Force lightning but for whatever reconsideration chose not to and to play along for a more opportune moment and surrendered himself. You could use reality in the all it would've took was one good shot to drop him and others would follow. Anakin and Kenobi got captured by Hondo, so I don't think its fair to troll Dooku in this case. Dooku being captured again by Maul and his Shadow Collective was more believable, but then they had Dooku easily defeated by Vos by Dark Disciple and once again captured.

However, if Dooku's cloak was made out've armorweave like it was in the EU, then he could've easily fought off all of them with a mix of his acrobatics(TCW did it all the time), Force powers/ ligtning and lightsaber ability. I think they conveniently robbed him of his armor and his skills like they do whenever they want to put one character down or up another for a plot.

 

Dooku is leading a war among thousands of systems. No doubt he wanted revenge, but he had bigger problems to deal with, and more important places to send his armies. When the opportune moment came he did finally get his revenge, but the aftermath of it never bothered me.

 

There's no stupidity.

Lame and insulting is to ask for stuff like that comic at the cost of believability. No character is omnipotent. Dooku was outnumbered. And so was Vader in that comic. If they had any respect for the character, they wouldn't make him a gary stu that can take down a field of soldiers (assuming that's what happened, otherwise why even bring it up?).

 

So at first safely observing Hondo's ship and numbers from atop a mountain and then directly walking into Hondo's camp, without being armed and on guard, and instead of slaughtering them(remember this is Dooku , an experienced and venerable former Jedi Master and Sith Lord - and who can bring down caves and hurl immense objects and shoot lightning ect), he attempts to barter passage with pirates and then actually boards their ship and somehow relieved of his saber(s). Sure that isnt stupid on his part through the part of the writing team?!

Dooku could've taken them all out by even hurling boulders at them and their ship- and then take his ship back and/or took theirs. Writing and portrayal was lousy - they could've came up with a better scenerio if they wanted or otherwise its a matter of talent or weaknesses of the story writers and producers.

 

You hit the nail on the head! I mean, I´m not sure if actually having to fight tanks is an advantage, hehe, but the point is, why every Force user must be measured by his/her fighting abilities? Dooku was a potilical, charismatic manipulator. He could have worked perfectly without being Force sensitive at all (he would have been better that way, I think). Vader was a lot more fighting oriented, and this shows both as a duelist and as a commander. That doesn´t mean that Dooku was worthless, he was quite capable as a duelist regardless... but more importantly, he was the perfect tool for Palpatine´s plans at the moment that he was inducted into the Sith Order.

Actually, that this basic element gets often ignored is a bit curious to me. I mean, Palpatine, for instance, was immensely knowledgable in the Force. And yet, he was the Supreme Chancellor, meaning he must be one of the busiest beings on the galaxy. Ok, let´s say he didn´t have a personal life at all, and all he did in his free time was to continue studying the Dark Side. He still had to device incredibly complex plans to eventually come into power and rule de galaxy, erradicating the Jedi at the same time. And with all of that, he was also a master lightsaber duelist so skillful that he could compete with the best duelists around?

It´s not unbuyable, I suppose, but it made a lot more sense to me his ROTJ image, where he relied on his Force powers because he was so powerful with those that he basically didn´t need a lightsaber at all...

 

1. Vader ability to defeat multiple opponents was shown not only in that comics but for example in Lords of the Siths where he singlehandedly defeat entire Cham squad and fight with numerous lyleks.
2. Dooku was a jedi for many years and was known as one of their best duelist. I pretty sure he was take part in many fights.

3.He was fooled by Hondo. This is first grade stupidity and great disrespect to a character. And he was as Vorax stated above in far better position than Vader in comics.

Watch the video. Dooku did not notice that his lightsabers were stolen... And willingly come with Hondo(who didn't really look like a guy you can trust). He is forge his own capture.

 

CloneofVader

You're right, but Vader had his lightsaber and he has an armor. Dooku on the other hand weaponless and he has no armor.

 

Uh, which battles did he fight? It was peace times when he was still a Jedi. Most of the people he fought were lightsaber-wielding foes. He knows duels alright, but getting out situations like that one in the episode is a different thing. I don’t even think he has had much experience in the frontlines of a battle, as even during TCW he liked too much sitting in the back doing politics and giving orders – to the point that even Anakin sneered at him “For once, you came to do your own dirty work.”.

If anything, I appreciate when the writers remember to write these characters as powerful humans with weaknesses and limitations.

That is the cartoonish, “videogame” component of Star Wars. Force users are not always characterized by their unique backgrounds and empiric knowledge that led them into developing personalized skills - I mean, sometimes they are (they are doing an effort with Ezra and his talking to animals) but most of the times the representation of Jedi and Sith is basically a simplistic power level and midichlorians count chart that may or may not make sense for their characters but makes for badass fights.
Sidious being as agile as a ballerina and being ridiculously skilled with lightsabers, as if he found time to keep his physical skills honed everyday between his busy schedule as a two-faced politician trying to rule the galaxy and control two sides of the war while hiding his Force powers from the Jedi, is just one of those examples. I agree with you that his ROTJ image makes a lot more sense, as he being able to produce this incredibly powerful and deadly lightning power compensate for the fragility of his body. But whatever.

 

You telling me that Dooku didn't have battle experience dispite being jedi for 60+ years ? His background not exactly known in new kanon. But every jedi in this era was mostly train in fighting against blaster wielding foes and the fact that Dooku also was a duelist tell a lot about his skills and desire to be more powerfull than average jedi.
But situation we talk about is not about battle ability it is about how lowlife pirate Hondo trick and capture powerfull Sith Lord. If he lost his lightsaber somewhere else and just being ambushed by 30 pirates i'd understand, but a lame lizard has no trouble in stealing his lightsabers, he trust Hondo who brought him in a middle of his pirate stronghold....

 

I mean, that's kinda the reason why so many Jedi died at the first battle of Geonosis. Lack of real battle experience.

But anyway, about Dooku not having his lightsabers, I don’t see how a Sith Lord can’t be allowed a moment of distraction that could be exploited by an exceptionally skilled pickpocket.