Dooku was trained under...Thame Cerulian?!

Alright. So I'm reading Wookiepedia (Count Dooku's article) and it says Yoda was merely an adviser over Dooku and Dooku wasn't necessarily his apprentice. Attack of the Clones (and George Lucas) clearly state that Dooku was Yoda's padawan. Please tell me this is just a little error on Wookiepedia's part because this is the sort of thing (EU contradicting the films/Lucas) that annoys the heck outta me.

 

He was Dooku's Master in the same way he was Obi-Wan's. Trained in class by him and an eternal mentor, but not THE master.

GL kinda asked for it by making Quigs Obi's master while turing Yoda into a schoolteacher. Would have been inconsistent.

 

I don't know, it still doesn't add up. He specifically referred to him as "my old padawan", meaning he indeed was his apprentice.

 

Much as I love the EU, I kinda have to concur on this one. If it's a Yoda/Obi-Wan style situation, he wouldn't be Yoda's PADAWAN- he'd be part of a YOUNGLING classroom. There's a difference of terminology there that I don't think can be overcome.

 

We can always hope for a Yoda/Dooku flashback in The Clone Wars.

But yeah, I wonder what got into EU that day. Stupid stupid.

 

Ignoring the existence of Cerulian, I figured that exceptionally promising Padawans would be taken on by Council members. And the Master/Padawan relationship is important to the Jedi. They see Masters as learning from their students just as much as they teach. As such, it would be out of form for a Jedi Master, even one as high in stature as Yoda, to never take a Padawan.

If a retcon must leave Cerulian's existence intact, perhaps we can say that he was Dooku's field advisor. Yoda handled most of the training, but couldn't leave Coruscant too often. Thus, he attached Dooku to Cerulian whenever Dooku was due for some time off-world.

 

In the same way that Masters are very often called Knights, I imagine apprentices are often called padawans. George isn't very consistent on some things. While the terminology is different, remember, the same thing happened with Obi-Wan and Yoda. Yoda doesn't have full time padawans... I think the closest he's come was Ki-Adi Mundi.

 

I look at Thame Cerulian the same way I look at Tatooine being in the Republic.

 

@ Fenn!
Classic!!

How stupid does the end of TPM look when held to the light of THOSE 2 sentences?

Rookie Jedi's should never mentor Jedi prodigies.
Stupid is, as stupid does, I guess....

 

*shrug* Even Steven for Evan Piell I guess. *shrug*

Lucas set precedent with Obi/Yoda/Qui relationship. It was also stated in the EU that Yoda/Dooku did work together on a few missions and did a few Padawan training as opposed to just school-teaching; but that he did have a real master. It'd be similar to Plo/Tano.

 

I raised my eyebrow at this too back in the day, but then I remembered Obi-Wan saying "I thought I could train him as well as Yoda" in ROTJ. If they each trained a padawan that became a Sith Lord, they'd be more or less even, and Obi-Wan's statement would make less sense.

TC

 

I always thought of it as Thame was Dooku's master, but then halfway through or less, Thame died on mission, and so Yoda decided to pick up as Dooku's Master, leaving everything intact. A self-created retcon, I guess.

 

....Frak. Now it doesn't make sense either way!

 

That is true. However, the EU seems to be somewhat conflicted internally as well.

[image=http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/3/32/Dooku-Yoda_Early_Life.JPG]

Reassignment, possibly? If Ani could be reassigned temporarily, why not Dooku?


Or *gasp* perhaps the Jedi went so paranoid they did not merely prevent one master from having more Padawans, they went as far as giving one Padawan two masters! Boy must they have been embarassed when he went dark after all.

 

Like the classroom of younglings in AOTC.

 

There are several flashback like scenes in Dark Rendezvous that have Yoda teaching Dooku one on one if I'm remembering correctly.

 

Weren't those scenes still when Dooku was pretty young? Like that game, what was it called, push-feather?

I'd have to dig it out, but I think the Jedi Path kind of has a sorta clear master-student relationship starting with Yoda making a few notes in it, then Thame then Dooku then Qui-gon then Obi-wan then Anakin then Ahsoka. Not sure how that fits with other stuff, and while they handed the book down, that doesn't necessarily mean they were absolutely in a Master-Padawan relationship, it could've just been like giving an old memento to someone. Or maybe Dooku was especially close to Yoda before becoming Thame's apprentice. Although there really isn't much on Thame Cerulian either, although from what I vaguely remember of the Jedi Path, he actually sounds more like Qui-gon then Dooku, especially as he left his Jedi Credit in the book (although my memory is blurry by now so my impression of him might be off). According to Wookieepedia (and I think I vaguely remember reading that comment in the Jedi Path too) Dooku thought Cerulian didn't quite get what being a Jedi meant (he wasn't proper, refined enough or something like that), so that probably speaks well of Cerulian's character.

Man, things used to be simple when it was just Yoda taught Obi-wan then Obi-wan taught Luke, huh? Even after the prequels introduced Qui-gon, they fixed that by saying Yoda taught almost everyone when they were kids.

Hm, wonder if Cerulian would ever be mentioned by Qui-gon in his upcoming comic series.

 

Given that we've seen Yoda and Dooku had a close mentoring relationship throughout his youth, the simplest answer is that "my Padawan" was Yoda's personal nickname for him, a nod at the fact that they were so close he considered him like his own Padawan. For the Jedi, I'd assume it would be similar to the affectionate usage of "son."

 

I'm fine with it. Ditto Yoda/Obi-Wan.

 

I thought I remembered hearing something about Lucas changing his mind about Dooku being Yoda's Padawan after AOTC came out, and one of Jude Watson's books accordingly establishing the new canon that Dooku had just been a kid that Yoda had taken an interest in or something.

 

Obi-Wan: "There you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me." -- implies that Yoda was considered an instructor of many Jedi, even though not necessarily their specific 'Master'.

Yoda: "Correct, the padawan is." -- implies that Yoda referred to his younglings in class as 'padawan'.

Given the above quotes, both from movies, there is nothing wrong with Yoda referring to Dooku as his padawan, or GL saying that Dooku was his padawan.

It is possible that GL intended for Dooku to be his 'specific' or 'paired-up' padawan, but the EU has changed that, and frankly it doesn't contradict any in-universe canon...

 

Yeah, seems GL solved this problem before it became one.

Padawan/all-round apprentice/Youngling being informally interchangable. Must say that is an idea it will take some getting used to. And I who thought the bad guys were just mouthing off to Ahsoka calling her a Youngling.

 

Im certain that the yoda quote here is inaccurate. He doesn't call any of his class Padawans from my recollection.

 

"YODA: Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is. The Padawan is right. To the centre of the pull of gravity go, and find your planet you will... The data must have been ereased.
OBI-WAN: But Master Yoda who could empty information from the archives? That?s impossible, isn?t it?
YODA: Dangerous and disturbing this puzzle is. Only a Jedi could have ereased those files, but who and why, hader to asware. Meditate on this I will."

 

Bingo. If Palpatine can say to Anakin: "I need your help son...", what's the problem with Yoda mocking Dooku with: "My OLD Padawan"? In that light, Thame can bake Dooku's cake, and eat it too.