Amph "Engage!" - Star Trek: Picard Discussion Thread [Paramount+/CraveTV]

Great show. Loving it so far.

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Laris doesn't have any ridges. Zhaban has slight ridges.

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Sorry, but you're clearly mixing it up. Laris is the smooth-headed Romulan, while Zhaban has ridges (they aren't as pronounced as other ridges we have seen on Romulans, but they are visibly there). Just google some pictures of them. And Memory Alpha also has Laris described as smooth-headed and Zhaban as ridged-headed

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This was my big complaint for the episode. The ways they’ve changed Federation society are really stacking up at this point and it is a real ongoing annoyance for me.

But other than that, I thought this episode was much more enjoyable than Episode 2, though not as good as Episode 1. When the ENH had his silly speech about Picard’s great history, and he even mentioned the Q Continuum, I was ridiculously happy. I have felt this show desperately needed some TNG-style silliness and that started to scratch that itch. The blond scientist’s style of silliness reminds me of Tilly on Discovery, which is fine, but they both feel very modern and not very ST to me, so it’s not the same.

My friend and I had a very big chat on what they’re doing with Romulans, and I think at the end of the day (besides the ears, which I don’t like), it’s working for me. Aliens in ST have always been so monotone in appearance, like societies outside of the Federation have no individualism. That can work in some cases, but it was always like that. Now I’m just rewriting that as the Romulan military/political/formal look, but in society people were always diverse in style and appearance. Of course, when Picard and Spock went to Romulus, everyone looked the same, but whatever. It was a political area and anyway, it’s just one change of many, and in this case I think it’s better. Romulan society can only get more interesting having a plurality of views and personalities and looks.

 

I think wider Romulan society was pretty similar to how we see it in TNG (remember Garak's line in DS9 about Romulus and its greyness).

However, their homeworld was destroyed and their society fractured 14 years before the start of this series. Picard's housekeepers seem to have made the effort to settle into Earth culture and are more "colourful" as a result.

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The Romulan commander in Balance of Terror doesn't have ridges.

 

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To me, Laris looks like a TOS-style Romulan. She even has a similarity to the unnamed female Romulan commander from "The Enterprise incident".

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Orla Brady's great. I've seen her in loads of things over the years and she's always been top notch.

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She looks like a TOS-style Romulan to me too. Loved the fight scene. Great to see her and her brother bringing out their combat skills.

I think my fav moment from episode 3 was Jean Luc avoiding the captain's chair. It's those little details that make it special.

 

Spoiler

When I say ridges I mean the V ridge on the Berman-era Romulans, the ones that aren't masquerading as Vulcans, at any rate. I'd say Laris and the TOS Romulans are smooth-headed (eyebrows, no appliances) and Zhaban and the Northerners are mildly-ridged.

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He said engage

I got goosebumps


I'm 42

 

My take is even though the Federation is equal, they ain't exactly handing out vineyards and wineries for everybody so she could just be bitter about that. But also I'm fairly certain she's a gambling addict and wants to go to that place because she's blowing her Federation standardized free stuff on the place Freeland (or freeform or whatever it was called). When the graphic popped up it had like dice rolling out.

 

I have to admit, part of my irritation was that I didn't get what her problem is. The view from her home looked beautiful and private. Her little house looked adorable and comfortable. If that's impoverished in the Federation, I'm not feeling sorry for her lol.

 

yah I totally agree, she didn't exactly look like she was living in the pits or anything. She definitely has a bit of attitude and a substance problem, she said she was smoking green leaf or hobbitweed or whatever too. So you can gripe about Federation standard living but nobody is truly that badly off. Her being whacked out on wowie sauce I think is a bigger personal concern than the Federation not providing for her.

Which is interesting, we haven't seen much substance abuse from Federation members. I mean if everything is free you'd figure there'd be a few. (I don't know if it's canon or not but I remember reading somewhere that synthehol could have the user will away the drunken effects, if that makes sense) Best I can think of is The Game and Wesley and Ashley Judd kicked the crew off of that cold turkey, boy howdy!

 

I think the thing with synthehol was supposed to be that it doesn’t have any of the aftereffects of alcohol. It could be that there are ways of replacing other mind altering substances in the same way.

 

Well, she was fired in disgrace, and though she is not exactly living in poverty she was not happy with her fall or her new standard of living.

I'm thinking Dr Agnes is a victim at the hands of the Romulan Commodore and will betray Picard.

Ok yes it was cool he said "engage".

 

Maybe it's just me, but

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I didn't think Nero's guys had bigger craniums - they just shaved their heads, but the heads themselves were the same size and shape as human ones.

 

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The Picard one has a noticeable forehead bulge - but I didn't think Nero did. Maybe I should have another look - not just at Nero but at a few of his crew too.

EDIT - after looking at Ayel and other Narada personnel on Memory Alpha, they really don't have Picard Guy's forehead bulge.

 

Episode 3 was much more enjoyable for me than 2 but I agree some of the changes to the Federation are problematic. That being said they nailed older Picard. I got goosebumps a couple times in the episode.

 

Has anyone considered that

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Benayoun might have been the CMO of the Stargazer?

It's worth noting that we don't actually know percisesly how the Federation's economy works; we know they don't have pysical money but we do know about Federation Credits and the fact that peaple do buy things with them. Personally I've always assumed that the creds are digital and that the goverment provides you with a set "allowance," with peaple with importent or hazardus jobs (like goverment employies and Starfleet officers) getting a greater allowance then somebody who just choses to sit on their butt all day, with this extra allowance possibly increasing even further based on rank.

Using that speculation, Raffi could simply be just someone who, becuse she does'nt work, is given just enough to live comfortably but choses to burn through most of that on drugs and other distractions.

Also Picard comes from a very old family (the contents of the Picard Family Album from Generations state that he's nobility, in fact), and the vineyards have been around for some time, so presumably he's more well off then most others would be.

My biggest problem so far is

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the clothing, which is very modern day and does'nt fit with civilian clothing as seen in TNG/DS9/VGR, but even then its not a super big problem to me becuse fasion changes enough in real life over short periods of time; it could just be that Human fashion of that type, which existed in ENT, DISCO and even in TOS (with just a dash of sci-fi sillyness in the latter) has simply come back into style after a few generations of fashion being swayed by alien influances. Also, given how garbage 24th Century clothing looked before, it's something that, like Disco's apparent retconning of the ugly-ass Cage turtlenecks, I'm willing to accept

No, and neither did his Centurion. However most of the Romulans on his ship (as well as those on the D-7 in the Enterprise Incident) wore helmets that were meant to save on ear prostetics but also conveniatly cover their foreheads, so many of those could very easily have had ridges.

Personally I always assumed it came from crossbreading with Remans - Vulcans don't have ridges, Remans do; Romulans conquered the Remans and probobly would'nt have had a super big population when they first arrived, hence they crossbread out of nessesity and ended up with ridged Romulans.

As for

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Zabhan's ridges being subtler then those of past Romulans, there's enough diveristy with Klingon ridges that this is'nt a big issue - perhaps one of his parents or grandparents had a smooth head.

The fact that we've never really seen casual drug use in ST before is more then likely due to the fact most of the shows were being filmed when that was still a fairly taboo thing. We have peaple getting drunk all over the place, though, and "Captain" Watters and his crew were addicted to stimulants in DS9, and speed is still in common enough usage in the 2200s that even a stick-in-the-mud like Burnham knows what it is.

 

Money being digital rather than physical would be a minor distinction. We're not far off that entirely being the case in our time, yet if/when that happens all it alters is the logistics involved in making transactions. Which millions of people already do digitally anyway. When Picard says in First Contact that money doesn't exist in his time, he must mean exactly that. IMO it's best not to think too hard about how finance & property work in the Federation, bcs it either doesn't make a lick of sense or Picard was just splitting hairs & they simply value & transact property in some other way. The can of worms this seeming utopia opens includes the ownership of say, a vineyard estate. Is it Picard's? It looks like it. What if someone else would like to have it? Can Picard sell transfer ownership of it? If so what does he get in return? If the answer is nothing bcs they don't believe in money or property then how would someone incentivize Picard giving them the vineyard? If it was passed down from his Picard ancestors then hereditary property is a thing. If so those people from families with more, get more. Good luck trying to have it all make sense as a system. So personally I liked Raffi referencing the fact that past Trek implications of a wealth-less utopia on Earth are pretty dubious, & wouldn't represent the reality for many of its citizens.

 

In the Trek Legendsverse, the Remans are a Romulan splinter race - Romulans who lived on Remus ended up modifying themselves to survive the conditions, and the Remans are the descendants of those. Hence them having telepathy and pointed ears, like the Vulcan ancestors of both.

 

I think that's exactly the case - Picard is pontificating and spewing offical Federation policy, even though its actually splitting hairs; keep in mind that he is the ultimate idealist when it comes to the Federation and its ideals. It would be a minor disinction to most peaple, but not to a true beliver like Picard.

We know they have to have some sort of currency, becuse they've mentioned credits and we have multipule reference to things being bought and sold.

The digital currency excuse works for me becuse it provides a technical loophole that explains why money both exists and does'nt exist, and the allowance idea with some peaple making more then others based on their contribution to society (or the risk of their job) explains why peaple do anything at all - if everyone was making the same amount of money their would be no incentive at all to do anything more, irregardless of what Picard says about Humans "working to better themselves," at least no in any numbers to support the Federation goverment and keep Starfleet staffed.

Of course hereditary property exists; even communists in the old western bloc countries had were able to own things. In fact, we know the Picard Vineyards were hereditary, becuse Picard's brother owned it before him and their dad before him.

Yes, they would, but under the speculation I posed above (the allowance system, which works as well as any explanation) even the poorest person would be given enough to live confortably. There would always be peaple who were better off, either becuse they were given more becuse their contributions to society were greater or becuse they owned some sort of profiable biusness (the Picards and the Siskos, for instance), or simply becuse they came from money (the Trois)

As AshokaSolo pointed out, Raffi's living conditions are'nt really all that bad; by Federation standards she may be improvished, but then agian by the standerds of the 1700s I'd be a wealthy aristocrat.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does'nt Nemesis say that the Romulans conquered the Remans? It's been a while and I hate that movie, so I can't say for sure. At any rate, I personally like the idea of them being a conquered race the Romulans use as fodder and cheap labor and cynically bred with in order to survive while hypocriticly presenting themselves as superior, if only becuse it seems like a very "Romulan" thing to do.

It could just be that the Reman's got their telepathy from crossbreading with early Romulans, just as the Romulans could have gotten their ridges from crossbreading with Remans, and for whatever reason the Remans retianed the telepathy while the Romulans eventually lost it.