Everthing Matrix!! (Reloaded/Revolutions Spoilers!)

Well, there's been rumblings of another Animatrix, and I remember back in the '99 online chat with the Brothers (before their no-press mantra) someone brought up the idea of novels after the movies were done and they didn't discount it.

But for now I think the big "continuation" is going to be The Matrix Online MMORPG. If I had the time and money I'd check it out, but with college coming up, it doesn't seem likely. I am interested in where they take the post-Revolutions Matrix world, though.

Even though some people are bothered by it, I really like how the Matrix story permeates all these different mediums. It's not like the Star Wars EU, really, because nothing happens without passing the Brothers' inspection, and it's all canon. I love the Comics and Animatrix especially. There are so many interesting side-stories to be told.

 

if you really wanna be confused watch solaris.
the movie sucks and the pacing is horrible but the story is kind of interesting. i'm still not sure i got it.

 

Sorry I missed the great discussion about Neo?s powers. I actually thought it made perfect sense that Neo was not connected to the Machines. The Source is the mainframe. Once Neo touched it he now had access to all machines.

In any event, in terms of future projects, there are a few. There is a hard cover Matrix comic book coming out. There is The Matrix Online, which I can?t wait for! There will also be 2 more Matrix video games for PS2 and Xbox. For anyone who did not like Enter The matrix, Warner bros didn?t either. They promise to ramp up the new games. The 3rd game will focus on Seraph?s backstory. He?s the star of it. So that should be really cool.

There may be an Animatrix 2, but that has not been greenlit yet. There is going to be another Art of the matrix book. And finally, the mega box set is coming out in the winter time. It?s going to have new extras for every film, a feature explaining the philosophy and religious ideas behind the movies, the Animatrix 1, Matrix Revisited and the best part, a new version of Reloaded that is 1 hour longer! It will have cut scenes in it, so I guess it?s a director?s cut. Reloaded was my favorite film of the trilogy, so I'm really amped up to check that out.

So the Matrix saga continues, in lots of other media. Although I think the films are completely done.

 

I?m falling behind in the discussion again?sorry.

thejeditraitor i was really interested in space man's theory on neo's return

Someone else pretty much beat me to it:

TheVioletBurns And as for the Oracle's words... I didn't take it as Neo would be returning, but more like, someday the Oracle and Sati will themselves return to the Source, and perhaps meet him there again, in some strange kind of technological afterlife?

Except that I took it as being the traditional, Christian concept of ?Heaven??not necessarily another symbolic ?technological afterlife.?

I don?t have too much evidence to support my wild speculation, but?IMO?on the very outskirts of the matrix stories, we are shown glimpses of worldly theology. Now, I don?t mean the abundant theological/allegorical symbols that are so prevalent throughout the trilogy?I mean plain-old world religion stuff.

A great example (and I invite people to find others) is contained within the ?Second Renaissance Part II? Animatrix episode, as we?re finding out what took place with Operation Dark Storm:

Narrator: Thus would man try to cut the machines off from the sun - their main energy source. May there be mercy on man and machine for their sins.

My question: WHO is this referring to?who will bestow ?mercy? on both sides for ?their sins?? See what I mean? Theology (here, of the Christian variety) peeks through every now & again in the stories, and so I took the Oracle's comments at the very end of Revolutions?

Sati: Will we ever see him again?
Oracle: I suspect so. Someday.

?to mean that the Oracle was actually referring to the traditional, Christian concept of ?Heaven.? Symbolically, within the movies themselves, this is further supported by the importance of the sky to the stories; the sky being one of the most ancient & obvious symbols of the heavenly realm. Both humans & machines symbolically destroyed the sky/heaven; but as we see when the hover craft breaks the cloud cover en route to 01 in Revolutions, the sky/heaven patiently awaits them.

Which leads to yet another interesting side-bar discussion: Do the programs within the matrix, and the machine beings of 01 have ?souls?? I am going to argue that they do: Remember the scene in Revolutions where Neo & Trinity are attacked by the sentinels as they fly towards the Machine City (just before the above-mentioned sky scene)? The one sentinel apparently attempts to down the ship by colliding head-on with it. The camera perspective then switches to ?Neo-Vision? and we see the glowing ?essence? (dare I say: ?spirit?) of the sentinel?post-impact/post-?death??passing through Neo?s body. Fascinating stuff?and I (obviously) interpret it as a ?proof??of sorts, at least?that the machines (and, presumably, the programs as well) actually have ?souls.? Thoughts?

 

Yes Space Man, they do have souls. I think your example was one of the bst from the movies. Also the desires to be free and do what what they choose (i.e. Merovingian) also show a very human aspect which would imply a soul as well.

There probably is "religion" and faith among the machines. Why not? At the point that they show love for each other. And will even sacrifice for love, anything is possible.
Great points!

 

i don't think the machines have "souls" persay, but i do think that's what they trying to get across. like the program sati and her "parents" who "love" her, they're trying to establish them as beings in their own right, which is what the animatrix tells us.

unfortunately not a lot of people watched the animatrix. i didn't see it either, the first i saw of it was the timeline thing on revolutions which explains the story so well.

 

I think what was trying to be established was the fact that the machines, through their own growth as a "race" and through their close observation of the human psyche (because of the Matrix), have evolved into real, valid, sentient life - as worthy of respect and preservation as any other kind of life.

That scene with the "ghost sentinel" is one of my favorite moments in the trilogy. I think this is the very thing that happened at the end of Reloaded - that is, if we'd had Neovision back then, we would have seen four ghost sentinels crashing through Neo. The difference between these instances is that, well, besides the fact that one is much less intense than four, Trinity was able to grab Neo's hand before he totally lost touch with reality again, which is what separated his mind and body the first time.

 

that is true.

 

TheVioletBurns Great observation; I had never considered that before....

 

Some quite interesting -- coming from someone whose wife holds a doctoral degree in Philosophy, and is a Ken Wilber disciple -- news concerning that DVD decaset, from CHUD.com (which also got reported today at The Digital Bits):

The Wachowskis Speaketh...

...sort of.

The story goes a little something like this:

For the upcoming "ultimate" collection of the "Matrix" trilogy (which will be ten discs in size), Warner Bros. asked the brothers Wachowski to give a director's commentary -- a must for any box set. Hesitant to do so for various reasons, the Wachowskis then jumped on the suggestion, made by the studio, that they have other people do it in their stead. But finding most commentaries to be pretty "mundane, boring, and shallow," they decided to spice it up a little bit -- they desired a commentary that would reflect their movies, a commentary that would inspire the listeners to open dialogues "about everything." To do so, they had an interesting idea: get two critics together who hated the films and have them talk about their passion for six hours. Juxtapose this with two philosophers who loved the films and have them talk about their passion for six hours. The end result would not only help to illustrate the films, it would also help to illustrate the nature of dialogue about art itself.

While I am not entirely sure, to be honest, that the critics' commentary has been recorded or will make it to the final package (Warners found the idea to be a little nutty, to say the least), the philosophers' certainly made it through. Recorded by Cornel West and Ken Wilber, the two of them generated fifteen hours' worth of commentary that will be (unfortunately) edited down to the six hours of the movies.

(A brief aside: if many of you, like myself initially, are asking just who Ken Wilber is, here's a brief biography taken from his website, Integral Naked:

"Ken Wilber, at age 54, is the first philosopher-psychologist to have his Collected Works published while still alive, and, with his 25 books translated into some 30 foreign languages, the most widely translated academic writer in America. Wilber is the internationally acknowledged leader of the integral revolution gathering momentum around the world. He is the founder of Integral Institute and one of the hosts of Integral Naked.")

Since Wilber himself is a bit of reculse -- he claims that he hasn't done a public interview in some twenty-five years -- Larry Wachowski, Wilber's friend, decided to return the favor by allowing some of their conversations to be published on Integral Naked -- the first time that the Wachowskis have ever publicly spoken about their complete trilogy. The first part, just released yesterday and running just over thirty minutes, covers a wide variety of topics: interpretation of art; Wilber's -- and, to a certain extent, *Larry's* -- reading of the "Matrix" trilogy; the role of body, mind, and spirit in the trilogy; talk of philosophy and philosophers, including Hegel; and, finally, the analysis of some of Wibler's works.

It's an interesting beginning, filled with the promise that more "Matrix"-related revelations are set to come...

On the other hand, anyone here ever listened to their audio commentary for Bound?

Snacking, slorping, and belching that make Jabba the Hutt look and sound like a Zen renunciant.

 

I am psyched about this! I mean sure I will have to shell out some more money....ugh. But still I can't wait to see the directors cut.

Forcebewitya!

 

Between this interview and the glimpses we get of the Brothers on "The Matrix Revisited", my appreciation of them grows. They're just so no-nonsense and completely unaffected by the baggage that comes with being the "creators of the Matrix trilogy". They probably used all that money they have to buy more baseball hats!

And Larry has a great sense of humor. I was cracking up (as apparently was Ken Wilber) during that interview - "I'm here to tell you that your opinion is WHACK!" And, "I think I'll bring my dog. This is the balance of the universe."

Hugo Weaving said he based the voice for Smith partly on their intonations, which makes total sense, if you've seen "Revisited".

I really hope we get to see more of them in the upcoming boxset - since they're doing two new "Revisited"s for both Reloaded and Revolutions. w00t!

 

...Nope, no new re-edits for the sequels (or any of 'em for that matter).

To wit, the final, *final* specs for that ten-discer set, and one can also presumably scrap that cast/crew audio commentary roster, unless the Brethren are ballparking.

From The Digital Bits:

Anyone out there up for The Ultimate Matrix Collection? According to the Wachowski Brothers, who made a rare public appearance at the recent Comic-Con to talk about the DVDs, it's on the way in December. They were part of a Warner Bros. DVD panel on Saturday, which happened right before the big Lucasfilm Star Wars panel, so it seems not many people from the online DVD world were in attendance to hear them talk (including us). But faithful Bits reader Doug S. was there and sent us all the details, some which confirm things we'd heard before (click here and here) and some of it new information.

A promo was shown revealing two versions of the set, including a more expensive Collector's Edition Gift Set that includes a Neo minibust from Gentle Giant and a soundtrack CD. As we've heard before, this will be a 10-disc set as follows:

• Disk 1 - The Matrix (digitally remastered and recolored)


• Disk 2 - The Matrix Revisited (The SAME disc already released)


• Disk 3 - The Matrix Reloaded


• Disk 4 - The Matrix Reloaded Revisited


• Disk 5 - The Matrix Revolutions


• Disk 6 - The Matrix Revolutions Revisited


• Disk 7 - The Animatrix (The SAME disc already released)


• Disk 8 - The Roots of the Matrix


• Disk 9 - The Burly Man Chronicles


• Disk 10 - The Zion Archive

Here's additional information the Wachowskis revealed at the panel:

Despite rumors, there will be no new director's cuts. The brothers said they were very happy with the original theatrical versions.

There will be two audio commentaries for each film -- one from philosophers Ken Wilber and Cornel West (who analyze the meanings behind the films), and one from three professional critics who hated all three films (no names given). According to Andy Wachowski, "It's the best idea we've ever had. It's hilarious. They just sit there and rip the **** out of us for six hours."

All the footage shot for the Enter the Matrix videogame is present on the DVD for Matrix Reloaded. However, it is not cut into the film -- it's a separate special feature you can view scene-by-scene.

Finally, the Wachowskis said that none of the special features from the original DVD releases of the trilogy will be reproduced except for what you find on Discs 2 and 7. You may see some of the same footage re-edited, but if you want to own all of the extras you'll need to keep your original DVDs too.

So there you have it, straight from a Bits reader who was there. Todd and I actually saw the Wachowskis at the Burly Man booth in the dealer room, so we know there were on hand for all the Comic-Con fun. Our thanks to Doug for his efforts and for sending all this information to us to post for all of you.

 

I honestly didn't have a damn clue what the old Architech told Anderson in Matrix Reloaded at the end. Was talking in high jargon meant to be cool? Fools.

And now that I think about it, if the Oracle died, how was she alive at the end?

Can anyone shine the light for me? [-o|

 

And now that I think about it, if the Oracle died, how was she alive at the end?

She wasn't dead, she was just copied over by Smith...if you know what I mean...

I'm a huge fan of these movies, and I'm looking forward to the box set. I may already have them all on DVD, but thats not stopping me from getting the box set.

 

The movies are awesome, but I don't really care for this gigantic box set. Especially if the movies (the good part) are exactly the same. I actually doubt many people will buy it; it will be more like a expensive collectors item. And I thought that the philosophy behind the movies was mostly supposed to be up to the audience to understand it how they wanted to, so more commentaries by "philosophers" to just add their own opinions seems to me like a waste. I'm happy with the original releases of the DVD. That's just my opinion. Ignore as needed.

 

the box set is supposed to be coming with s special edition of reloaded, with 30 mis of extra unseen footage.

 

Nope. Read the above.

It says, "Despite rumors, there will be no new director's cuts. The brothers said they were very happy with the original theatrical versions."

And -- honest-to-Ghu, here -- does anyone *honestly* want an hour-longer cut of Reloaded? Seriously.

But regardless, the material from that first Matrix Revisited disc was perfectly fine, and there's no need to go back to that particular well for a completely *new* set of docos when the first ones did their job as effectively as they did. It'd be like going in and putting out completely NEW versions of the LOTR "Extended Cuts," or the Alien Quadrilogy a mere year or two after the first ones hit. That material's going to stand as the definitive "chronicle" of the productions for some time to come, and no sense throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

And what did they mean about the special features on the original DVD's not being seen again in the ultimate collection? Surely they should be buried in there somewhere, or how would it be the "ultimate collection"? And what about the original menus on the current DVD's? They were pretty cool too...

 

Forgot about you, 2nd. At least those game cutscenes will be included on the Reloaded supplements disc.

And now, some pics:

[image=http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/miscgfx2/matrixultimate.jpg] [image=http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/miscgfx2/matrixgiftset.jpg] [image=http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/miscgfx2/matrixdetails.jpg]

Here's what Bill Hunt had to say:

I thought we had a lot on this title in yesterday's post, but we're back AGAIN today with still more information on Warner's The Ultimate Matrix DVD Gift Set (TBA, due in December). As a reward for taking an online survey over at the Warner Home Video website, Bits reader Jeremy H. was able to learn some new details about the set... AND get some pics for you too!

According to Warner's survey, the 10-disc The Ultimate Matrix DVD Gift Set will include the three Matrix movies, The Animatrix and 6 discs of "enhanced content" with over 35 hours of bonus material. SRP is expected to be in the range of $59.99. It looks like there will also be more elaborate (and more expensive) version of the set that will include all 10 discs in special packaging, along with an "exclusive resin Neo bust and an 80-page book with never-before-seen artwork and storyboards."

Wanna look-see? Well, here you go...

Not bad, 60 clams. Less than what the Quadrilogy went for at the same time last year. Less still after retailer markdown. Dunno about those Godfather-esque cardboard slipcases (hell -- I'm one of the two people on this Planet Earth who don't mind the Warner "snappers" one scintilla), and the box vaguely resembles that Borg cube giftset of yore; but...it's promising. Notably the philosophers' commentaries, and the chance to have six or seven hours of uninterrupted Ken Wilber.

 

I still say Reloaded was the best of the series, it built on the Matrix world and it gave good action. The Matrix was too short and barely gave a glimpse of the world while the Matrix Revolutions was so cliche ridden it rotted teeth.

 

I was thinking about getting this, but if the "Enter the Matrix" scenes aren't actually in the Reloaded cut as I thought they were, I think I'll just pass.

 

Most of the footage wouldn't work as a logical part of the film, since the majority of the concluding dialogue in them are direct segueways to the game levels.

A couple of them -- the "Niobe/Lock intimacy" moment, "Keymaker/Merovingian" scene, maybe -- MIGHT click, but the rest of it is so entirely context-dependent -- and PLAYER-dependent -- that most folks'd be wondering what the cruft is going on when Niobe and Persephone likewise end up "intimate" at a very arbitrary point in the narrative.

---

And what did they mean about the special features on the original DVD's not being seen again in the ultimate collection? Surely they should be buried in there somewhere, or how would it be the "ultimate collection"? And what about the original menus on the current DVD's? They were pretty cool too... [face_confused][/b][hr][/blockquote]It's mentioned above that much of that same behind-the-scenes footage has been re-edited into the new docos, but besides which, the lion's share of the [i]Reloaded[/i] and [i]Revolutions[/i] featurettes were of the John Gaeta stripe, not philosophy or storyline-oriented.

Regardless, it's virtually analogous to the differences between the two-disc and the four-disc [i]Lord of the Rings[/i] sets: you get a smabdollop of information in the first release, but you get MORE of that info, in deeper detail, in the second.

 

For the first time in my life, I actually wanted to leave midmovie of Reloaded. A hero that battled three dozen Smiths and only got pushed down once or twice all movie is no movie I want to watch. But I had to get my money's worth and stay.

I shouldn't have. I didn't understand a single word the old man told Anderson at the end, even with my alleged high verbose competence.

No use swearing at someone in another language if that person doesn't speak it. The words don't get across, and that's how it was for me.